SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

IMO STBXWH has thrown away the best thing that ever happened to him.

Even if he gets all the money, even if he only has to pay me chump change, even if he gets his kids 50% of the time.

The karma bus has already run him over, even if he's too stupid to realise it.

You are right to protect yourself. Keep NC, nothing about the D - nothing at all except kids. NC = No New Hurts. I learned this the hard way.

Settlement will be reached and that will be the end of it for you.

For her that's when real life will really kick in. Reality is not fun for those with their heads up their arses.

She will say/do lots of things she'll regret (or would regret if she had an ounce of integrity in there). You just keep your head held high, your integrity intact, continue to act with class. Keep being an awesome dad.

YOU will have nothing to regret except the wasted years with her. Even that will pass one day.

I'm so sorry DTTC - it is a hideous, horrendous thing to go through. Please know you are not alone.

Someone on SI once said to me

"in a little while this won't be something that's happening, it will be something that has happened."

It comforted me then and it comforts me now.

[This message edited by StrongButBroken at 11:57 PM, September 16th (Sunday)]

Thanks StrongButBroken. It is tough some days. This morning she came back to help get the kids ready. I told her that there was no reason for us to fight like that and it was not in the best interest of the kids. I was as sweet as I've been to her in some time. So that probably will leave her a little confused. She has to survive the next 10 days with limited contact with her kids since my parents are coming in and she will not want to be anywhere near them. So that will continue to come back into the reality that will be her new life without me by her side. Many tough days ahead but we will get through it.

Thanks for the encouragement and I will continue to post my updates to help myself and hopefully help someone else later.

DTTC

I'd keep a var (voice activated recorder) on you when she's around....

Crazy can and does happen...

Just sayin'

WB

I have a friend going through this right now. His wife left for the OM well over a year ago. He has had the kids 90% of the time. She just went to court asking for 50/50, she didn't get it and he hasn't owed her any support at all yet.

It has been a hard road for him trying to keep the kids in his primary care. He documents everything. AND I mean everything! How long she has them, what she buys for them, healthcare expenses... This was their 3rd time back to discuss custody.

I'd keep a var (voice activated recorder) on you when she's around....

Crazy can and does happen...

Words of wisdom from WB that you should heed...

She blew up on me the other night because I filed for custody. She said there was no way I would keep her kids from her. I calmly told her it would all get worked out in the custody meetings. Everything should be negotiable. I really don't want to keep her kids from her, my original thought on filing for full custody was to help her out of her fog. Since I realize now that it won't happen, I can move on and deal with the custody and divorce settlements knowing where I stand. At this point it appears we will have an amicable settlement based on our discussions, but you never know. For now she is suffering as I have the kids the next 10 days with my parents and she is trying to find evenings to spend time with them without having to interact with my parents. So in the next 10 days she may see them about 3-4 times. That is her choice since I can't keep her out of the house.

She'll try and play the history card saying she took care of the kids 75% of the time when we were raising them together since I was working full time. But hello, I was working full time to support us and you didn't have to work at all unless you wanted to. And even then you only had to work part time. Geez, I would of been glad to have that set up.

On another note has anyone started to date again once divorce papers are filed? I'm not that far out from D-Day but I really feel like I want to go out with someone and at least sit and talk to someone new. No strings, just new friendship. Part of me thinks it will help me heal, not think about WW. Plus if she knows I'm out dating it will probably bug her (okay that's being vindictive but who can help it). I know there are posts on here that it should be 2 years to get over failed marriage. I am just thinking ahead to those free evenings I will have with no kids someday and how it would be nice to head out and meet someone new.

So just an update. She was served her papers but said nothing to me about it. Not sure if she talked to a lawyer yet but guess I'll find out sooner or later. She is actively looking for an apartment because she knows it is the only way she can get joint custody of our kids. I certainly will not let her take the kids to her OM house. I don't want him anywhere near my kids. I have been doing good with NC. I try to only talk about kids and finances. With our finances split already (I started that part early during reconcile/cheat/reconcile/cheat phase we don't even need to talk about financials much. The only discussion I want to have about the D is if she is willing to sit down at the table, just the two of us and divide up assets, figure out custody, etc. without the lawyers involved. It will both save us money in the long run.

Called me today to talk about kid schedule. Led into what each of us discusses with the kids concerning this. She wants almost no detail given to them basically just stay silent or whitewash the answer. I tend to give more information. While I don't come out a say that your Mom is sleeping around with another man, I have told them that Mom does not want to be here WITH DAD. She misses you (the kids) and wants to spend as much time as possible with you but because she does not want to be with Dad, it is impossible for both of us to be with you together. She has tried to tell my youngest that this was both of our choice. I told her, you can't tell our youngest that. It is not true. I was not given any real choice, I was put in a corner and steamrolled. I'm sorry you feel bad that you can't see your kids as much as you want, you should of thought of that before you jumped in bed with someone else and then refused to end it when D-Day hit. Karma's a bitch and it has no deadline. Yes I'm fired up right now. Good I can vent here and not at her.

DTTC,

I wanted to tell you that your emotions/comments/thoughts appear to mirror mine. I don't have much advice for you as I'm brand new to the site but I wanted to tell you "You are not alone!" Thank you for sharing and keep updating! I will start updating my thread so you can see I'm struggling along with you. We will beat this!

You're doing good dad...

Keep your head on straight...

WB

Just remember, what amount of custody, support, where the kids can or cant' stay -- that's not 100% up to you. Ask for what you want, but don't get a mindset that you're absolutely going to get it.

I am sorry that you need to divorce, but things will get better.

I would spend time with male friends rather than dating now, if I were you. If you date someone, you're dating someone who is willing to date a person who is still married to someone else. This may land you right back where you are now a few years down the road. I think there is value in waiting until the divorce is final to date again. Having said all that, it's your choice by all means. My perspective is colored by the fact that WH and I started dating while I was legally separated from my XH.

Dad,

Years from now you will be able to look your children in the eye and tell them that you did everything you could to save the family. You are doing everything right.

re: dating. Be careful. I learned the hard way that it was too soon for me, and that I was doing it just to get under WH's skin (which worked, but only prolongs the agony of the separation and does nothing to help you detach.) That said, I did make an amazing new friend, and have been very up front with him about my expectations and what I am ready for. Lucky for me, he has the patience of Job and is willing to stay in the friend zone as long as I need him to.

Only you will know what you are ready for...listen to your head as well as your heart. Just make sure you don't use other people as band-aids.

I am thinking about you a lot today. (((((hugs))))

Been awhile so figured I would come in with an update and do some good old fashioned venting.

So I have filed officially and am now trying to move our process along. But WW is dragging feet. Has only had one meeting with attorney. Last week she decided she wanted to meet for lunch and discuss custody, divorce,etc.

So I met her for lunch and she was unprepared. I went over everything on my list and basically low balled her and she knows it. I have a special needs kid who has a very good setup in school. She wants 50/50 custody but won't be living in school district. Plus she can't get support without that deal. She will hear from her attorney everything she can go after. My retirement, child support, division of property. So my first stance with her is if you screw me bad enough that I can't hold onto house, I'm selling house and moving out of District. So in other words you screw me, you screw your son. She says she doesn't want to just walk away with nothing. My standard answer is: You wanted to go off on your own. You wanted to be a part time parent. I didn't ask for any of this. If you truly want to be out on your own, then do it on your own. Don't take from me and use it to support your lifestyle.

She has said she doesn't want to screw me and wants me to stay in the house, but at what price? And, how do you trust anyone that has done all this shit to you.

So I have also given her my second plan of action. If I get beaten down bad and I am really unhappy with the whole thing. I give her full custody and I leave town. I have family in other parts of the country and I could easily be with them and re-group. Why is this a significant play? Because she does not want her kids full time. This is one of the reasons she went off in the first place. Needed her escape from this reality. So wouldn't that be a big shit sandwich for her to eat if I was the one to take off. She doesn't want me to have full custody (I would take it in a minute) nor does she want to have full custody. So this would be a major kick in the teeth.

I know a lot of you are going to say that I shouldn't leave the kids and that I have been doing so well doing what I need to do to take care of them. Emotionally I am struggling with this whole deal that she cheats but still legally makes out financially. I need to hit her where it hurts. I don't want another beat down. I've had too many already.

A little more history so some of you understand my rant. She is youngest of 3 kids. Always had things handed to her. Has not had to work hard for much. When she met me, I picked up where her dad left off. I took care of her while she finished technical school. When we got married she had to option not to work, work part time, etc. When kids came along, same deal. When kids started school same deal. I never had a real choice. I worked full time, provided for us and made sure everyone was comfortable. So now if she wants out, walk away and learn to live on your own. Or have your OM take care of you.

Always feels good to vent to you.

She sounds like she's a Sparkle Pony.

Just saying.....

k9

So I have also given her my second plan of action. If I get beaten down bad and I am really unhappy with the whole thing. I give her full custody and I leave town. I have family in other parts of the country and I could easily be with them and re-group. Why is this a significant play? Because she does not want her kids full time. This is one of the reasons she went off in the first place. Needed her escape from this reality. So wouldn't that be a big shit sandwich for her to eat if I was the one to take off. She doesn't want me to have full custody (I would take it in a minute) nor does she want to have full custody. So this would be a major kick in the teeth.

I know a lot of you are going to say that I shouldn't leave the kids and that I have been doing so well doing what I need to do to take care of them. Emotionally I am struggling with this whole deal that she cheats but still legally makes out financially. I need to hit her where it hurts. I don't want another beat down. I've had too many already.

Do NOT use your children as pawns to get revenge on your WW! That is beyond damaging to them! Imagine how they would feel if their father abandoned them. It would have devastating consequences.

Hope24. I don't want to use my kids. I have done everything I can to protect the kids. I want them to stay in this house, where they have their routines and are happy. But if she takes too much, I may not be able to keep it for them. I will do everything I can to hold onto as much as I can. But if she comes in digging deep for gold and I can't keep hold of the things I need to be happy here, do I just stick around a broken man, my hard work torn from me, not providing for my kids the way I always have? While she gets to live a single lifestyle, parenting 50% of the time and living off of money I either made for her or will be making for her in the future. At some point there has to be a breaking point that is best for my well being, mental health and for the future of the kids. Listen she thinks I am bluffing and she may be right. Leaving my kids would be the hardest decision ever. Especially with all the recent work I have put in to take care of them. But there has to be a breaking point. And I know there is no way she wants full custody herself. I know to many it will look like I am using the kids. And maybe I am. I'm just running out of feasible options.

DTTC. Please try to keep your emotions separate from this process.

Bottom line is that you were the wage earner. You are going to get what you feel is a *bad* deal. I get that and I agree that it is not fair.

I'm not sure that I understand your situation, though. More specifically, your job situation. Are you in a job that will allow you to just pick up and move away? That is a legitimate question from me because my stbx's *job* does not require him to live in any one specific place, so I'm wondering about your situation.

I get the feeling that you are running around like a bull in a china shop and I am concerned that it is going to come back and bite you in the ass. Use your HEAD right now. On an emotional level, I totally *get* what you are feeling/saying, but in a *legal* sense.....dude, you may be hurting yourself.

Whether you *keep* your house or not is not going to have ANY bearing on custody and I think that you are playing a dangerous game with your WW when you intertwine the two issues. I hope to God that you did NOT put that offer of full custody in writing. You are extremely sure that your WW does NOT want full custody (and I'm definitely not saying that you are wrong), but what if she takes you up on your offer? Then what? Are you just going to abandon your kids to prove a point? If you know that she doesn't want them, but she may just take them because she is being vindictive towards you.....who will pay the price?

I did a mosquitoes breath of *google* on PA divorce laws, and they are crazy....fault, no fault, contested no fault. And PA is an *equitable* distribution state, which doesn't mean 50/50.

DDTC--stop trying to *work* your WW. Go to your lawyer and make sure that he/she knows *the skinny* (that your WW is a cheating slut) and tell that L how YOU want it to work out for you and LISTEN to what the L tells you.

But, just so you know, you are most likely going to feel that your settlement is unjust towards you. Why? Because it will be. That is just the reality for a wage-earning BS.

Kids aren't attached to a *house*, they are attached to the people in their lives. Your WW is a loon and you are offering her full custody and telling her that you will move away and leave the kids. Bad move.

If she *accepts* your offer of full custody then you are screwed. And so are your kids. Like it or not, she has been their primary caretaker. It does not matter if she COULD have worked, blahblah. She didn't. The court is going to see that as a *joint* decision. It is a tough pill to swallow, but....

I could keep going with this, but I'm going to stop and just tell you that your current train of thought could, quite possibly, lead you down a path that is going to be extemely harmful to you and your children.

Courts don't give a shit about messy marital drama and that is why there are so many states that have the no-fault divorce laws and the black/white formulas for figuring out who gets what upon divorce. It is possible that the PA court is not going to give a shit that your WW cheated on you. Does that suck the hugest suck of all? Yes. But it is what it is and that is the way it has to be.

Here's what I think you should do. Tell your L everything...what she did, how she's acted and what you want the property, maintenance and custody to be. And then listen to what the L says.

I'm sorry D. I know that this is extremely frustrating and upsetting and unfair and not how you had *planned* your life to be. Your WW may try to *dig for gold*, but that doesn't mean that she's going to hit the vein.

agree with the last poster...do your best to separate your emotions from this divorce. From here on out, this is a business negotiation; the most important one you will ever be part of. Play hard ball, stand your ground and do the best for you and your kids. Ultimately, there are going to be things that are decided in the divorce that aren't fair and that are going to piss you off. Those of us in no-fault community property states sort of get screwed when we are the wage earning BS's. Our ex-spouses basically get paid a shit-ton to screw someone else. It hurts, it pisses you off, but there won't be anything you can do about it so unless you find a way to make peace with it, it ends up just being another way they can hurt us. Just do the best you can to be a great dad to your kiddos and be good to yourself.

gonnabe2016

You have one of my best voices of reason and I agree with you. I know these things to be true. I am in a really angry place right now. I have had enough conversations with my attorney to know what could be the result. I know my emotions have to separate from the rest of the process. But it is very difficult.

One small important fact that I should of included. My oldest is an Aspergers kid. He has a very good setup with school, a good aide, full support from the District. My WW will not rent an apartment/condo in the borough we live in (thus the school district) because they don't have anything "nice enough" to meet her requirements. That means for him to stay in this district, I have to hold onto house or sell and buy within the district. Thus puts more work onto me as she will likely do nothing to help with the sale process. So in my mind my first line of defense has been to tell her if you take too much, I don't know I can keep the house and keep him in the district.

My lawyer knows she cheated, he knew the day I exposed her. He was the third call after the family. So I am pretty aware of what are the possible results.

So I am going to try and calm myself. Back off from any further negotiations with her. Let the process go to work and take my lumps once again from this whole mess.

It does nothing to help me that she drags her feet with her attorney and still has not got a place of her own. So her time with the kids means she comes to the house to see them. I can't keep her out of house until D happens so I am stuck with having to see her show up when the schedule is convenient for her. I have started at least trying to leave when she gets there so I don't have to see her or talk much to her. It is a struggle for my youngest and I hate to see her hurt. But some have told me I need to do that so it helps her as well adjust to life with only one of us present. I have told the WW I need a schedule of when she is going to be at house and how long she intends to stay. That way I can at least plan a little of my life.

Listen, I do know she does not want full custody. She has said all along she would love a 50/50 split so she can have her break time from the kids. I mean this is a woman who told me during our brief reconcilliation (which was a total farce) that there are times she wished she never had the oldest child with his Aspergers challenges. She told me she isn't cut out for that. So I have to live with that statement in the back of my head. So do I want her to have full custody, NO WAY. Part of me doesn't even want her to have 50/50 custody. But there is no way the courts are going to award me full custody as they won't deem it in the best interest of the kids. Even though there Mom is a cheater, liar, alcohol dependent, living in a fog, family destroying, how many more things can I list?

Yes my emotions are crazy. I'm pissed big time, I can't help that. Isn't this one of the phases of the D healing process? I can only hope I get to the next phase quickly.

One more item which is a little comforting for the home team. I know a number of folks that have used her attorney. One thing he will tell her that she doesn't know yet is that he will tell her she has to go back to work full time. At this point she thinks she can continue to work part time and live off of that plus what I will likely be funding for her.

I need a few silver linings. Hard not to be in this place when your fustration and anger come from the feeling you are fighting a losing battle.

Whew! Close contact with your L and following his advice. *sigh of relief*.

As I mentioned, the wage-earning BS is getting a really shitty deal already and I just don't want to see you do or say something that is going to make it worse. I should have realized that you had a practical plan of action since I've read your posts since you joined the site and have handled yourself well so far.

And yea. Being pissed right now seems reasonable. I hope it is anyway because I'm not too happy right now and it's for a lot of the same reasons that you listed, although it has gotten better recently.

Did your WW agree to give you a schedule for when she'll be there to see the kids? The current situation seems pretty unfair to you and it's no wonder that you're pissed about it. Can you not get temporary orders from the court concerning a visitation schedule for the time between now and when the D is finalized?

(and you're right....it is MUCH better to vent away here than engage with her.)