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She seems to think that WSO has BPD, and currently does not have the skills to give me what I need to stay in a relationship with WSO. At the same time she realises that the way WSO has treated me and continues to treat me is unacceptable, and gave me the impression that we should separate and give each other space. In a way it almost came across like she is an enabler and was kind of validating WSO behaviour.

I don't think she was validating your WSs behavior, but was validating the point that so many others have made that you need to get out.

She's not capable (your WS). She's just not. You have to recognize that and try to cut your losses because she may never BE capable and you deserve to be with someone who is.

[This message edited by ThoughtIKnewYa at 1:29 AM, September 21st (Friday)]

She seems to think that WSO has BPD, and currently does not have the skills to give me what I need to stay in a relationship with WSO. At the same time she realises that the way WSO has treated me and continues to treat me is unacceptable, and gave me the impression that we should separate and give each other space.

Jesu, a skilled mental health care professional who has been seeing your WSO has just pointedly advised you to leave this relationship. That is exactly what you need to do. Period.

GREAT...

She's not capable (your WS).

She's MORE than capable of running off to fuck some other guy though, a stranger with a bigger cock than me, and ignore me and treat me like shit for years though hey!

Makes me feel like a piece of shit that I am not worth anything!!

ARGH...

(((Jesu)))

I know but, look, you ARE capable and you DO deserve someone who is ALSO capable.

I hope you free yourself to find her because then life truly IS GREAT.

And she's fully capable of doing this to you and not thinking twice about adding physical abuse to the mix. All the while, blaming you...

Look, it's not that you are worthless. It's that SHE isn't capable of giving or receiving love. The sex is just a 'transaction', you know. She got 'attention', perceived 'power'- she got that when she told you the whole size thing, too. That's abusive, too, IMO.

You deserve so much more than this.

[This message edited by ThoughtIKnewYa at 2:04 AM, September 21st (Friday)]

BUT...I LOVE her guys. Our lives together have not been 100% bad. There's a lot of history and great stuff between her and I that I cherish. At times we've had what I consider to be an almost perfect relationship. There's a reason why we're both hanging on. YES, she's made some really bad decisions and some awful selfish mistakes...but at the end of the day as much as I am suffering and confused there's still something there. She's not well and I feel that rather than abandon her, like she abandoned me, I should be there for her. That's just the kind of man that I am.

Do I just throw away my love for another and feelings just because they've gone through and are going through a troubled part of their life? Isn't love about being there for someone through thick and thin? Yes we're not married and don't have children, but that doesn't make our relationship any less legitamite...

What do you love about her??

And what do you love not-so-much about her?

And what do you want? What does your ideal relationship look like? What values does it reflect?

Her counselor is telling you she has a PD. Like may of us, it may take you years to figure it out, but I hope not.

ETA: I never said anything about your relationship being 'less legitimate'. I would give the same advice to a man who'd been married 20 years with four kids, based on what you've provided.

[This message edited by ThoughtIKnewYa at 2:47 AM, September 21st (Friday)]

" Her IC is very concerned about WSO, but didn't seem too interested in my needs, in regards to honesty, remorse, transparency, communication, and conflict skills. She seems to think that WSO has BPD, and currently does not have the skills to give me what I need to stay in a relationship with WSO. At the same time she realises that the way WSO has treated me and continues to treat me is unacceptable, and gave me the impression that we should separate and give each other space."

This...the IC is not your fIC so your needs are not what is important here. And it doesn't matter if you are paying the bills.

WB shares a story with you and you blow it off with firearms aren't an issue in OZ...but knives are readily available..just as are bats, chairs, bottles or just about anything else that can be used as a weapon.

YOUR SAFETY is the issue here. Not your WSO's thought processes, or her IC not acknowledging your needs.

Again I am sorry if I sound harsh.

(((Jesu)))

edited for punctation

[This message edited by girlsbird at 4:06 AM, September 21st (Friday)]

Jesu I apologize if you have already mentioned this, but are you in IC for you? With a counselor who makes you focus on YOU, and not on trying to wrap your head around what your W's issues are? (that is why months of solo counseling did me no good - my counselor sat there and let/encouraged me to theorize at length about my husbands issues and motivations for his crazy behavior. I only started getting any kind of peace when I talked to someone who forced me to focus on ME, not him - which was what certain wise folks here had been telling me for months.

I would highly advise you to find a damn good IC for YOU. I know if you are not ready to give up, 1000 people telling you that you need to will make no difference. BTDT. But it will help you to focus on you. Good luck!

[This message edited by JanaGreen at 4:58 AM, September 21st (Friday)]

Do I just throw away my love

No. You just love yourself more.

When you begin to direct your energies inwardly, nurturing yourself, you'll find the need to be other-directed, or needing outside validation becoming less. And less. Over time.

The need to be seen as the noble guy, who sticks around and fixes things - and the more toxic, the better! - derives from our own low self-esteem.

It's not that we have intrinsic value, worthy of love, nurturing, and respect...oh no! Our internal sense of value comes from something outside of us we believe we can fix.

Be well Jesu. Love yourself.

Jesu...

You've got a lot of KISA (knight in shining armour) in you...

You can't save her... You can't help her... You can be there for her.................. so she can kick your ass some more...

Save yourself....

WB

Oh, Jesu. You are driving me NUTS, but only because I've been where you are and I know you love her, I really, really do, and I can assure you that NO ONE here thinks your relationship is any less valid...

So... if you want to stay there is a lot you can do to influence her behavior. You need to set very strong limits with personality disordered people. Also, you should probably recognize that it's doubtful she'll stop cheating on you long term. Violence can be dealt with, but you absolutely MUST get the authorities involved. There is a great way to get them to the house quicker -- get an alarm system and simply hit the panic button on it. I could give you some resources -- narcissism cured is an internet site that has great advice; run by two aussies as well. The Verbally Abusive Man is a good book, as is Controlling People and Boundaries by Henry Cloud.

My WH is most likely a PD type and his behavior has improved dramatically in the last 3 years.

Also, finally, it's important to take care of yourself, learn to self-soothe and be somewhat dispassionate in your responsese -- be responsive not reactive.

I used to just get blindsided by some of the amazingly hurtful or idiotic stuff my WH would come up with totally out of left field. Finally my sister gave me some sage advice -- that if I *expected* to be attacked without warning or to hear total nonsense at any moment, I wouldn't be too surprised to respond appropriately. Making that mental shift for me gave me the opportunity to respond as I needed to, which essentially made behaving badly not worth it for him. It is, in some ways, simply a convoluted form of bullying.

Take care. Be well.

Do I just throw away my love for another and feelings just because they've gone through and are going through a troubled part of their life?

BPD is NOT a "troubled part of their life." It is not a temporary state. It is not something she'll get over.

She is disordered.

Nobody is telling you to throw away your love. This site is filled with people who love their spouses/partners/SOs. But sometimes love is not enough to fix things. Love is not enough to keep you safe in the face of your SO's disorder.

Jesu, you cannot sacrifice yourself on that altar. It doesn't help her. It CAN'T help her, and I believe it actually makes things worse for both you AND her.

We can all shout this from the rooftops, Jesu. And I know you won't hear what you're not ready to hear. I just hope you file all our voices and the IC's voice in your head until you are ready. And I pray you are ready before it's too late.

((((Jesu))))

[This message edited by nowiknow23 at 11:50 AM, September 21st (Friday)]

Jesu...your love for her cannot overcome her demons. She has to do that.

She's MORE than capable of running off to fuck some other guy though, a stranger with a bigger cock than me, and ignore me and treat me like shit for years though hey!

Yes, and those are not loving acts. They just aren't. She isn't treating you with love, she is using you. Period.

My xWW never assaulted. I never gave her the chance. I sat up with her all night long while she basically had a nervous breakdown in the hospital. I stayed by her side constantly through her recovery when she was supposed to be finding ways to deal with her mental health issues. When I told family and friends I was going to confront her after dday#2 they asked if I made sure there weren't any weapons (i.e. knives) available. So if the kitchen is close by you aren't safe. She's attacked, she lied to you and emotionally abused you.

Yes, all of it wasn't bad. It couldn't all be bad. It was all bad with my xWW either. But the bad outweighed the good (a lot) and the remorseless cheating and lying were dealbreakers. You've got that and abuse thrown on top of it.

p.s. Do not think just because she never wanted kids before that she won't try to get pregnant now if she thinks that will keep you.

I'd simply like to encourage you to find and attend regular IC-- simply for you. To help you find your feet and make your way. Practice strong self care: do things you love, that fill your soul in healthy ways. Do something small, every day. You don't have to make any permanent decisions right now. Take your time. Begin the healing process.

Best wishes to you~ Sabina

Hate to be blunt, but love is all about geography. BPD is very hard to deal with and she has to accept her disease and want to heal herself. Very hard for a BPD since everything is a personal attack.

WSO hurt me physically again last night.

[This message edited by Jesu at 10:33 PM, September 24th (Monday)]

(((Jesu)))

What's the next step? This cannot go on.

I don't know!