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I have to concur with NG. Tip of iceberg. There are levels of severity with SA, and he is in the zone were there are other victims as a result of his actions (including you). That means he has the capacity for things you cannot imagine and quite frankly are horrific. It also means he has a much less chance of recovery even if he decided to try (and again he clearly is not), and will most likely keep going until he is in jail or dead. I am so sorry to have to tell you this. People who do this escalate until it is stopped by death or treatment. That is fact.

When you consult with your lawyer, you need to find out if this kind of behavior will affect your D options and especially your custody options. That determines if you need this evidence and how it needs to be obtained so it's legal for the court.

My personal recommendation is to follow your lawyers advice in obtaining the evidence needed but have someone else screen it for you. If your are installing spyware, for example, have someone else view the data. You can't unsee these things. It will be bad enough when he evidence is reported to you.

(((Hugs))) I am very very sorry this is happening to you. It is not right, it is not fair, and you deserve so much better.

[This message edited by hathnofury at 11:34 AM, September 28th (Friday)]

Well, I met with a lawyer yesterday. My free one-hour consultation turned into two hours, so I owe $100 -- but it was totally worth it.

I went in with a thick file folder of documents: car loan papers, mortgage info, credit card statements, 401(k) balances, pay stubs, etc. Everything will be a simple 50/50 split there.

There's one thing I want financially that she said I probably won't get, and that's recognition of the years I was out of the workforce when the kids were little. My Social Security earnings are much lower than my husband's, and I guess there really isn't a way to equalize that. Oh, well.

People who do this escalate until it is stopped by death or treatment. That is fact.

When you consult with your lawyer, you need to find out if this kind of behavior will affect your D options and especially your custody options. That determines if you need this evidence and how it needs to be obtained so it's legal for the court.

The lawyer brought this up. Turns out she used to work in the state attorney's office as a prosecutor of child sex crimes. She wants me to see a sex addiction specialist to find out if I need to insist on any restrictions before my soon-to-be-ex can have the kids stay with him overnight. Really, I don't think he's any threat to the kids, but she raised the same red flags that you all are mentioning, so I'll go ahead and see a specialist. I admit, I don't know the depth of Dick's activities, and I've been in the dark about some of the ickiest ones, so I need to be extra cautious.

Funny, last night he came home from work early and announced that he was planning to attend the high school football game (two of our kids are in the band). He has NEVER taken the initiative to attend one of their events! It's always me telling him, "You really should go to this," or, "Fine, I'll go without you."

Also last night he stopped and bought his mother a birthday card. Normally he relies on me to do those sorts of things, or he stops at Hallmark on the way to his mom's house.

He's definitely on good behavior. He knows something's up.

This weekend I'm telling Dick we need to divorce. We'll see how that goes.

Wishing you strength, this weekend.

(((GO)))

GO,

I'm finding you inspirational! Such clear boundaries and alignment of word and action!

You know, even more than the sordid "expert advice" he gives on fetish boards about being deceptive, and his shoe conquests at work, I was struck by, when you initially confronted him about his postings, the way he called you names.

Because, SA or not, a lot of us have been met with denial, hostility, and accusations that we are crazy and delusional when we dare to speak the truth about what they are doing.

I LOVE that you are not signing up for ONE MORE SECOND of abuse-my-spouse-to-protect-my-secret-life crazymaking.

Also, I watched a couple of nights ago a documentary about the Canadian Air Force colonel who got busted in 2010. He had a women's underwear fetish. First he broke in women's and girl's houses and took photos of himself in their underwear. Then he would steal the underwear and leave thank-you notes. Then he escalated to breaking in while they were home and blindfolding them and making them put on underwear and taking photos of them. Then he escalated to adding sexual assault, and videotaping it. Then he started to kill them, two before he was caught.

He was the commander of the most high-security air force base in Canada, perfect boss and perfect record. His wife had no idea.

It makes me wonder wtf is going on. How many men have secret lives; how many men just wish they did.

So glad you're receiving good legal and counseling advice, and that you're so level-headed.

[This message edited by blinders_off at 2:13 PM, September 29th (Saturday)]

XH was a SA. I was fine with him doing anything to me, but when I started to fear for my son, I D. Left with very little and no child support. It was hard to prevent visitation in the state I lived in. The paperwork I had was enough to severely limit his unsupervised visitation. Long story short, my kids turned out far better than if I had stayed.

The forensic computer eval is a good idea. And dont mention D until you have all evidence and exit strategy in place. My X went crazy when we separated. Homicidal, suicidal, broke into my apartment, etc. Please, please protect yourself and your kids! You can always loosen up if he shows stable behavior.

It makes me wonder wtf is going on. How many men have secret lives; how many men just wish they did.

Women too...

Here's a quick update on my situation.

I sat down with Dick on Saturday evening and told him that things weren't working out, and that whatever it is he's been looking for, he's not going to find it with me.

He sobbed, he took full responsibility for his wayward behavior, and he owned up to everything. He admitted to every icky thing I'd discovered (and I didn't give him an itemized list) and seemed truly sorry. What I saw was the nice guy I'm used to seeing, not the guy with a double life.

I don't think I got snowed. He seemed sorry for what he did, not sorry for getting caught. I detected no anger from him.

He wants to get counseling (for himself, not marriage counseling for the both of us) and fix things.

I don't know what to do, so for now we're in a holding pattern. In the meantime I'm continuing to photocopy bills as they arrive in the mailbox so I'll have a more complete picture of our finances.

I took screenshots of his online activity and saved them on a thumb drive that's being stored in a friend's house. Also, my shoes that got icked on are in a plastic bag in my friend's garage.

Next steps ... I have no idea.

It's great that he is sorry and ashamed, it really is. My man was the same. And I felt grateful for that. At least he felt bad. And at least he wanted to fix himself. And at least he wanted me still. BUT. Take it from me. The sorry and the shame wears off damn quickly. If you take him back he will be back to his old ways in no time. And this time with the knowledge that you have the capacity to forgive. a free ticket if you will. I am sorry to put such a negative slant on it. But if I had listened to what others told me when my man ran the same story, it'd have saved me a move halfway across the world, my job, my family, and a waste of 2 further years of marriage. This man is going to find it impossible to give up on his strong impulses. Good luck. I am following your story and I hope you can come out on top.

I would suggest not using a regular IC. Have your WH find a CSAT.

I hope that his *remorse* sticks.

There's one thing I want financially that she said I probably won't get, and that's recognition of the years I was out of the workforce when the kids were little. My Social Security earnings are much lower than my husband's, and I guess there really isn't a way to equalize that. Oh, well.

You may not get this in a divorce agreement, but if you have been married more than 10 years you are entitled to Soc Sec based on a portion of husband's earnings. Contact SS to get the details on that. I just sat through an hour long presentation by SS at our Human Resource center, so I remember loads of powerpoint slides on this topic...but of course, I was concentrating hard on what I would have for lunch and don't remember anything I heard.

One thing I know for certain is that sex addicts, especially the really deviant ones, are master manipulators, actors, and liars. Their ability to appear remorseful & completely gutted when confronted is without parallel.

IT IS ALL AN ACT.

Repeat, it is all an act.

I know this because I was (and still am, dammit) married to a very deviant sex addict. I have read the personal stories of spouses of the super-deviant sex addicts for years, and have read the literature. I've been in counseling for almost 1.5 years. I've talked to lawyers, I've worked with a computer forensic guy who makes his living scouring hard drives of sick perverts. In short, I've made myself an expert on the subject of really sick perverts.

THEY DO NOT CHANGE.

THEY CANNOT CHANGE.

INTIMATE PARTNERS WHO STAY WITH THEM ARE PERMANENTLY DAMAGED.

I am not talking about the garden variety cheater or sex addict who cheats with 20 people and still wants more. I'm talking about the sick SOB'x who are into S&M, or kids, or the really horrifying fetishes, the kind listed in the DSM. THOSE kind of sick people. They just can't be helped.

I'm not saying they should just be shot out back & tossed in a mass grave. I am advocating, though, that a spouse give herself, or himself, permission to divorce & move on. There is no "cure" for people who are that mentally ill. There is no medication which can remove that desire.

Furthermore, there is nothing which the spouse can do to help, nor is there anything she or he can do to remove the knowledge or images she now has in her brain & spirit. Worse, if she has children with this person, her children are at grave risk of, at the very least, seeing what their father (or sometimes mother) is up to. Seeing stuff like that, or being aware of stuff like that, will permanently damage a child's mind.

As a life-long Christian I finally had to accept something which went against what I'd always held dear in my heart. I finally had to accept that some people truly are unhealable, unfixable, not redeemable, in this lifetime. I finally had to accept that there are some levels of brokenness which cannot be overcome Some people are truly that messed up.

It makes me wonder wtf is going on. How many men have secret lives; how many men just wish they did.

Women too...

Thank you, Jesu. Hugs to you, GrossedOut.

A couple suggestions here from someone who has been down a fairly similar road.

Even now that he is showing remorse, are you prepared for when he slips? And then slips again?

If you decide to try to R, marriage counseling is probably a very good idea. Stat.

Also, know that his activity isn't really taking place in front of the kids, so it may not be a factor in terms of custody. (It was really hard for me to buy this one too, but it's more or less the law - at least in my state.)

If I had to do it all over again, I should have filed for divorce immediately and taken advantage of her slight remorse and the surprise at being found out. I tried to patch it up for the sake of the kids, etc., and now am still in a long drawn-out (2-plus years) divorce. Once he hires a lawyer, the battle lines will be drawn. Is mediation an option in your state?

I wish you the best. You sound as if you're handling this well. Much better than I did. Either way, life gets better. Mine has, and so will yours.

@ Nature -

Given everything that you have said, are you planning to divorce?

Iggy, yes, we are divorcing. I tried to R many times, and last year I tried to R w/ MC. He was never capable of it.

(((NatureG)))

It sounds like you've been through a lot. You deserve the best.

I'm listening to all of you. Definitely, I want to know about your experiences and benefit from what you've learned.

Even though I'm not filing for divorce today, I'm still strongly leaning that way. But as I said, things are in a holding pattern.

I'm trying to get an appointment (keep leaving messages) with a counselor who knows about sex addiction. I want to know exactly what I'm dealing with.

Believe me, I'm not going just on my perception.

Just an idea. You can test if the remorse is real AND protect yourself by filing for D with the attitude that you need protection from his sickness.

I mean, if he's remorseful, he ought to understand, right? - Instead of declaring some D-war, you could use this brief time of 'appearing to be remorseful' to get a good deal and get safe.

The apparent sorrow is what I call the 'sunshine time'. That brief period of time when they want to help you heal. It closes quickly. File, and get favorable terms.

Let him know you'll monitor his *progress* from afar, from your safe place.

If he's really remorseful, wouldn't he bend over backward to accommodate you?

Understand, I'm not screaming 'D the SOB'! ok? I'm saying get protected, THEN look for progress.

Grossed Out I am in a similar situation and am working on R because of the remorse but doubting every step of the way.

The difference I see in our situations that would have me filing papers in your shoes is the verbal abuse. I don't want to push you one way or the other but his SA aside (hard to do but yes seperate those behaviors) verbal abuse is abuse. It is abuse and speaks to a mentality and character that should not be present in a marriage. If he'll call you names he'll call your kids names when they piss him off or get too close to his secrets. And when his frustration builds while he's in therapy or being denied his outlet of choice name calling may be just the beginning. Nice guys don't call you names.

Hell, nice guys don't lie and sneak and seek gratification outside of their marriage because they've promised not to.

I am trying to find peace in the options I have before me and wish you the best in doing the same.

Lastly, and sorry my Dick says I can be callous, but buy life insurance on Dick, -lots of it - that includes suicide coverage. Sometimes there is a 12 month lag on the suicide clause. If you can add an attachment or expansion to an existing policy that he's been provided by his employer that would be easiest. Remember no matter what happens you are demanding massive change in Dicks life and men especially addicts don't handle change well.

I don't think I got snowed. He seemed sorry for what he did, not sorry for getting caught...

He wants to get counseling (for himself, not marriage counseling for the both of us) and fix things.

Four days have passed since your conversation with WH.

How was his 1st therapy appt? Or did he schedule it for later this week?

I hope he is seeing a CSAT because a regular therapist may not only be useless, but may actually make things worse...if they have no experience with, or training in, your WH's specific issues.

sex addicts, especially the really deviant ones, are master manipulators, actors, and liars. Their ability to appear remorseful & completely gutted when confronted is without parallel.

Wow, well said! And, my experience exactly! My WH has repeatedly been the picture of remorse...tears...sadness...ownership...soooo genuine...humbled...admissions of guilt and in need of professional help..."I love you"s..."I want to be a good husband to you"...etc, etc, etc. He even did a stint of therapy with a CSAT. Plus, his Mr Wonderful Husband act is second to none. If you were a fly on the wall in my home, you would think me the luckiest woman on earth.

GrossedOut,

Just be very careful. Proceed with caution. Guard your heart. Please make an appt for YOU with a CSAT. You will get such clarity about your WH and situation...as well as much validation and support.

Take care of yourself.