SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Wow, AAS, that's a good post. But, were there four sources of guilt; just wondering?

I suspect that deep down your STBXW understands that this is all bullshit. But she can't face it, so she chooses to rationalize.

I always say that the second strongest human impulse (after maternal instinct) is the impulse to rationalize something that we perceive to be in our best interest at the time. We can lie to ourselves better than to any else. I have tried to teach this to my children; make your choices, but be honest about your decision and the impact it will have on others. Be honest with yourself above all.

Your X is not being honest with herself; it's the only way she can live with herself.

You are right. There were originally four sources of guilt but the fourth was all about handling ones guilt with God, which I don't ascribe to.

AAS (and everyone),

This is something I like you have agonized over: in their bizarre blameshifting and rationalization (and isn't it creepy that they all say the SAME things), do they really believe their own lies?

On the days I conclude "yes" I feel they are getting a free pass. That is, they are "humanized"; we give them the benefit of the doubt in a sense. They "really" know they did wrong.

On the days I say "no," (which is these days more often than not), they are not getting away with it that easily. They are truly bad people. Selfish. Cruel.

The closest I get to a happy medium is writing them off as deeply mentally troubled. But there is a fine line between mental illness and just plain evil.

I am trying not to spend energy trying to figure them out; it is draining and perplexing. Conclusion: they are messed up, whatever that means. We are better off without them.

I've not heard from the WW for a couple of weeks. Haven't even seen her open the door when I hand over the children. It helps.

AND

I had a wonderful afternoon with a new lady friend yesterday and it's quite clear she is interested in me. We are both brutally honest and she knows my situation and me hers. Our afternoon ended on a very positive note, however;

BUT

On my journey home I was in tears. I felt emotional that WW has done this to me. I realise that despite her appalling past and current behaviour that I still feel strongly about her. I am simply not able to stop loving her. I HATE what she has done to me and the children and I HATE her blameshifting and abhorrent actions with the divorce but I realise she still has a hold on me.

She lied, cheated, betrayed, transferred guilt, alienated my in-laws from me, she's moved on and is living her idea of a perfect Stepford wife with MY children and after all that, she still tugs my strings and hurts me from afar. The worst bit is she couldn't give a damn. I'm far from her mind and she wishes I was dead. She has no conception that I still ache for my family and my wife.

She doesn't realise that if she were to come back to me it would be the hardest decision of my life. Either option would mean pain and anguish for me.

I foolishly looked through some family photos and saw a picture of mummy and her two boys. I remember taking the picture. I was so proud, so happy. I never once took what I had for granted. How could she delete me so easily after 19 years.

Weak today

((((allatsea)))))

You are grieving, you have lost the love of your life, and even though she is still alive the person you loved, is no more. Remind yourself of that when you have those moments.

Try not to let it Jade the whole memory of your time together, think of those times as before she lost her mind. Remember that healing from infidelity takes 2-5 years, that's for everyone. Those that R, and those that D equally.

It's ok to be sad, and let the tears flow every now and again, but as you get further out, you will find those episodes less, and as you see her behave in such an ugly way you will realize that you are better off not being married.

((((and strength))))

I could have written your last post myself, AAS. (Thanks, Tushnurse.) As time goes on and we see our WWs less and less, the tendency is to "forget" what they have done. I am in this stage as well; since I filed, our ties have truly been broken more than ever before. And this can have the opposite effect now and then: we suppress their crimes and begin again to slip into our BS fog.

Careful. Compile a list of all the heinous things she has done through her infidelity. Keep it close at hand.

And also try to think hard about what life with her REALLY would be like if she came back, apologized, promised, etc. Would you really ever be at peace? I mean, really? I know I would not. She has SHOWN US who she IS. This is not a phase, not a mistake, not temporary madness. It is who they are, AAS.

For me, my STBXWW would have to be another person entirely--undergo a brain transplant--for me to ever take her back and live in peace with myself. Logically that's not going to happen, so that is that.

And take it VERY slow and gentle with this new woman. You are raw and vulnerable. Don't hurt her and don't hurt yourself.

Right there with you, AAS.

Thanks Tush. Thanks Abb.

I know it's true, but it still hurts that the love of my life has destroyed me remorselessly

(((((allatsea)))))

Grieve. It's okay.

Feel better.

Hi AAS.....it is painful but as my wise mother said you have to go through the pain. We can't skirt around it...WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH IT. It's a killer...I get that, hell all BS get that but do you know what...you are so strong. You possess morals, integrity, honour, and a whole lot more qualities that anybody with a conscience will want. These are values that should never be underestimated or discounted, unfortunately our spouses chose to have people who possess the opposite of these values.

On a personal note...please do not think that their life is perfect or that everything is going ok. I know for certain that my WS & OW are arguing. She had expected me out of my house, yes my house, & she would be in it...not happy. She likes money & all the flash stuff. She has told him...yes told him to go and make more money.

Remember you don't know what's its like to be married to someone until you are married to them.

The truth will be their downfall, but by then you will be soaring like an eagle.

Never lose sight of who you are. Hold true to yourself.

Take care all

I'm so sad for your pain. It's a very stupid woman who can throw away someone who truly loved her.

It sounds like you are in the very depths of it now, but I think this is you starting to accept that it IS over, on BOTH your parts. That there would be no coming back from this for you either now. So allow that grief to come out, don't be ashamed or embarrassed about it - you are the one acting normally - she is the one who is not. I'm glad you've got the support of good friends. Try to be gentle on yourself and don't beat yourself up for grieving the loss of your marriage. You've got to grieve it, then let it go and move forward for YOURSELF.

(((allatsea)))

Yet another solicitors letter:

Her solicitor is either extremely unprofessional or STBXWW is writing the letters and the solicitor is merely adding their letterhead. Either way, my solicitor would not allow such emotive language to be used in one of my letters. I thought the purpose of them was to remove such language and keep it to the facts. What I've learnt is that the letters rarely have any facts in them and they seem happy to reproduce her baseless lies without question. In addition, I am now getting the same accusations about things that she accused me of 5 months ago which were answered and proven to be wrong the first time round. Every single accusation is easily proven to be false, such as her suggesting that I'm not paying child support. Er?, hello?, what about this huge monthly amount here that leaves my account?!!

She continues to talk in language which suggests that the children are hers to make all the decisions and she is considering whether to allow me to continue to have access to them. Er?, hello? It's not your decision!! We have joint custody.

I sent her an email a few weeks ago basically saying that we should put our feelings to one side and focus on doing the best we can for the children, she has moved on, I have moved on, she is happy, I am happy, I have a new social life and enjoying my new freedoms so why can't we just get on and do the best we can for the children etc.....

The first paragraph of her letter says "in light of your clients recent communication stating that the end of their marriage is in their mutual best interest and professing to be happy with his new found sense of freedom and enhanced social life, it is difficult to understand why your client [me] is seeking to delay the divorce from progressing" (I'm not BTW)

So ignoring the fact that I am not the one delaying the divorce (she won't even attend mediation and refuses to answer letters about the split of assets), I was surprised to see that she considered it pertinent to put such emotive language in a solicitors letter. Shouldn't she just have said "My client wishes your client to progress with the divorce as quickly as possible and cannot see why he is delaying"...or words to that effect?

She is trying to find anything at all to hang her guilt on.

you can't argue with crazy

(((AAS)))

You are right, you can not argue with crazy, and you can not fix stupid.

I know it must be difficult to accept, but you know in your heart that you are doing right. Make sure your solicitor responds with factual evidence that it's ALL on her.

"in light of your clients recent communication stating that the end of their marriage is in their mutual best interest and professing to be happy with his new found sense of freedom and enhanced social life, it is difficult to understand why your client [me] is seeking to delay the divorce from progressing"

allatsea, I've been following your painful journey, sad for your pain, thinking you are behaving very decently to your WW, while being a good father to your children.

That portion of her letter sounded like projecting...she is talking about herself!

Your WW has an ax to grind, and it must have to do with her own feelings of how poorly she has behaved.

HBH

(((AAS)))

I think she sounds a bit annoyed that you could be doing anything but writhing in pain.

So annoy her some more; be as happy and healthy as possible, while allowing yourself the natural grief that you will sometimes feel.

I suggest you do what you seem to be doing already, just do it better!

Try to view the rest of the process as a business transaction. It’s all about brokering an acceptable deal.

Sort of like if you were trying to return a broken plasma TV: You wouldn’t send the store-manager an emotional e-mail detailing how happy you are spending more time in the garden instead of watching soaps but how you miss the sports and news. From now each and every interaction with your wife has to start with the thought “how is this to my advantage in order to bring this divorce to resolution”. Your WW has shown that she will take anything from you and twist it so give her less to twist.

Bigger,

I will give her less to twist. You are totally right.

My solicitors reply will be extremely short and to the point. I don't even think that some of her baseless points need a response at all.

I will ensure the response is factual and is phrased in a way that makes her and her solicitor feel foolish for stating lies and repeating questions that were answered 6 months ago.

AAS,

Met with my attorney yesterday, and I asked her how and to what extent I should communicate with my wife, as it is getting ugly and she is becoming antagonistic.

She strongly emphasized Email communication, but also VERY important in the Emails is TONE. Of course be careful with content, but be even-tempered, very polite and respectful, to-the-point, with no extraneous commentary. Give her and her attorney NOTHING to grab onto and twist.

Abb,

This is exactly how my emails are written. very courteous and factual. Plenty of pleases and thank yous.

I do find it interesting that her letters are far more emotive than they used to be. I think she has definitely been angered by my 'I'm happy, let's move on' email' and the fact that the boys really enjoy being with me and in my company in our home.

She might have wanted the reassurance that I was her plan B but there is no way I would let that happen. She is learning this. Consequences to actions.

You can't argue with crazy and you can't fix stupid :)

STBXWW continues to stall and refuses to communicate.

In order to save money my solicitor has agreed for me to reply to all of her solicitors letters directly and just use her for guidance and direction. I'm happy doing this as most of WW's letters are full of lies which are easy to refute and nothing to do with the actual divorce. I can write a good legal letter.

I did send WW an email stating that I was about to file for a formal contact order with the court as I felt I had no other choice. (she continually dictates contact arrangements and treats the kids as though they are hers, and hers alone) I gave her the option of arranging something between ourselves but she didn't reply. So the application has been made along with my submittal for Decree Nisi. I never actually thought she would let it go this far and a part of me hoped she would realise the fuck up she had made but she's a stubborn bitch.

Last night I sent her another text, which I shouldn't have done, and I'm sure she will claim that I am breaching my harassment warning but I just needed her to know my position. I have never been able to confront my abuser, get answers to my questions or feel vindicated.

This is what I sent:

"I think it's quite tragic you cannot put the children before yourself anymore. Is it guilt, blind panic or the dawning realisation that I wasn't to blame for any of this that is making you bury your head in the sand?"

This will have undoubtedly wound her up, which I probably intended, but I don't think she has ever been told by me that I do not take any of the blame for the affair. In some ways I also think that I wasn't even 50:50 responsible for the problems in the marriage. The affair and her low boundaries with men were the only problem in the marriage. I'm now convinced more than ever that she has screwed other colleagues during our time together.

I am now awaiting her response to my previous and last letter from the solicitor which calls her out on her bullshit and demands that she states what she actually does want in the settlement rather than just saying no to everything without making a counter offer.

My boys continue to break my heart. I had them last night and they keep saying that I should be seeing them more and they get upset when I say that they are only here for one night.

My biggest wish right now was that STBXWW had somebody in her life who would actually shake her literally and metaphorically into facing up to her behaviour. Instead, she has dropped all mutual friends and spurned anyone who isn't fully supportive of her actions. After all, she had no choice but to have an affair because we watched too much tv as a family on a rainy Sunday. FTB.

Last night I sent her another text, which I shouldn't have done, and I'm sure she will claim that I am breaching my harassment warning but I just needed her to know my position. I have never been able to confront my abuser, get answers to my questions or feel vindicated

She knows your position and doesn't give a shit. You are not going to get anything out of confronting her. You aren't going to get honest answers. Venting or giving her a piece of your mind is actually going to give HER ammunition on the harassment side.

So STOP it.

Its business now. It is in the best interests of your kids not to go off on her. Yes. She deserves it. Yes, she has done worse. She is a total freak show.

My biggest wish right now was that STBXWW had somebody in her life who would actually shake her literally and metaphorically into facing up to her behaviour.

Take your focus off of her. She may never wake up, she may never see it. You have to protect yourself and work towards getting more time with children(which you are doing from the first part of your post).

Popping off texts like that isn't going to get you there.

Come here and get it out here. Write it down and burn it. But don't put yourself in a position, not matter how small, to fuel her arguments.

[This message edited by redrock at 6:39 AM, September 12th (Thursday)]