SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The daughter has already been told some of the things she needs, like both parents love her, and sometimes they live apart, etc. There is NOTHING wrong with Felco requesting that he be there when any further discussions occur.

Regarding the 180, it says 'be pleasant', not 'never talk to WS'. If she asks how you sleep, say "Great. I'd really like to talk to DD now." That tells her you are absolutely just fine without her, but also you really aren't interested in being her friend without you sounding bitter or angry. Remember, the goal is to practice NOT being angry, bitter or dependent. Don't be angry with her. Answer her question in as few words as possible, as pleasantly as possible, and then ask to talk to DD. If she asks another question, just say "I'm really short on time, so if you could get DD, I'd appreciate it." That tells her, in a non-angry manner, that you really aren't interested in conversation with her.

As far as having a nanny goes, you may want to let WW know that you won't be paying for a nanny for her days, and that she will need to continue to pay for that on her own. Make her realize that her life is changing, and not for the better.

You're doing really well Felco - please keep up the good work. We're all here for you.

EDIT: Go to the therapy with your wife and daughter!!! Do not let her use therapy to turn the story to her not being the bad guy!!

[This message edited by painfulpast at 10:22 AM, December 30th (Monday)]

Age appropriate info needs to be given. I don't know how old your DD is, but it is perfectly reasonable to tell her that when people get married they make promises to each other..when one of them breaks a promise, the marriage is no longer the same..and mommy broke promises.

^^^This. This is almost line for line what I told my 5 and 7 year old when we told them we were getting divorced. They WILL have questions and mostly it will pertain to how their life is going to be affected. They fear the unknown and by answering their questions in an age appropriate manner it helps them tremendously versus being in the dark. Let the kids know you love them, always will, and it's not their fault then answer questions as they come.

If you plan on moving out for an extended period then make sure you start getting your kids on a regular basis to establish a precedent for custody. Unless there is some legal stuff, 50/50 custody is the norm so make sure you see your kids at least that much or more and document each visit until you get something in writing from a lawyer. Even if this takes 2 years keep documenting. It may save you down teh line if your WW decided to go batshit crazy with accusations later on. Documenting everything should be the norm going forward. It's to protect you down the line. I wish you teh best.

ETA: ditto to what painfulpast said about therapy. You go to the sessions as well.

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 10:30 AM, December 30th (Monday)]

AT THIS POINT, I THINK THE BEST COURSE OF ACTION FOR ME IS TO STAY IN THE HOUSE TOGETHER.

I think keeping things consistant for a few months with be best for the kids. I do not want to change to much to fast. Slow and steady. I will continue to sleep alone and do the 180. I will try not to discuss the A or the future. I spook to a lawyer and we are in a "No fault" state so most things will be 50/50. I don't think she is going to hold the kids from me.

I am in contact with her friends and family and they are very supportive to me and upset at her.

I will take the suggestion that we see counciling together.

I don't want to keep my DD in the dark but I don't think we need to push the issue too much.

Thank goodness you spoke to an attorney. I agree that you need to stay in the home, for financial and custody issues. The last thing you want is to be accused of abandonment. Hopefully you have enough space to separate yourselves from one another. I would strongly encourage you to make it uncomfortable for her to stay in your bedroom.

I also encourage you to use a HARD 180 on her. She is deep in the fog, and being nice just answering simple questions, shows her little to no consequence for her actions. Until she really starts to feel how this is going to change her life, for the worse she isn't going to make any changes.

Felco, did your lawyer recommend this?

It feels like you're saying this because you feel bad about leaving. At some point one of you will need to leave, and the kids will be in the same spot as they are now. Living together can be prolonging the agony, for all involved. Please remember that.

If your lawyer said to go home, then yes, you should. If not, please think if you're doing this because you want to. Because it's comfortable.

Remember, you being there is showing her that you are still there, no matter what. The effect is basically nothing. She keeps doing what she wants.

She is NOT moving on just fine. First it was about making a schedule for the kids. Now it's about counseling. She's continually driving forward so she doesn't need to look at the mess she's made. At some point, she needs to. You living with her doesn't force that, or anything else.

It's your decision, but please think if this is about not wanting to pull the bandaid off.

You misunderstood me,painfulpast. I was not suggesting that it was ok for his WW to answer any and all questions DD asks..nor was I saying Felco was wrong in wanting to be there during any future discussions. Honestly, WW sounds a bit off her rocker, so him being there during these discussions is important.

I was simply saying if the child is asking, she deserves answers. He can ask his WW not to talk to DD about it until they are all together and can talk to the kids..but he can't make her do anything. She most likely will continue to answer the child and give it her own little spin. Because of this, I feel it is even more important that Felco answer his DD honestly, yet age appropriately.

Felco, I didn't realize your little girl was only 3. But she is old enough to understand what a promise is.

This is confusing. I am doing a 180, but not being rude.

I also think changing to much to quick is too much on the kids.

I will be co parenting in the home and in a few months make some bigger decision. It's still early since DDay and I want to make it best for me and the kids.

I will be pleasant but firm to the 180.

confused615, I did misunderstand. Thank you for clarifying, which you certainly didn't need to do, but it's appreciated.

And having seen the clarification, I think your advice is spot on.

Sorry - and thanks again!!

Actually, when I did my in-house separation with my FWH, pleasant but firm was the way I used the 180. Sort of like he was an overly affectionate/needy co-worker. Short answers to any questions, nothing in return.

Him: How was your day?

Me: Fine, thank you. (keeps on walking through the house to put down my stuff in my bedroom.

Him: Let me tell you about my day

Me: No thank you

or

Him: Starts to tell me about his day...

Me: (continues to walk) that's nice.

Pretty much no engagement. No interest in their life or what they are doing. Only engaged for necessary things, then to the point and as short of a time as possible. Keeping a slightly bored, vaguely pleasantly neutral look. As I would a co-worker who was wasting my time, I would keep the contact surface and as shallow/quick as possible.

I like your plan Felco. Just sit tight, be pleasant and non-hostile and wait. I still believe your WW is waiting for something to happen with the OM's reconciliation, but thats beyond your control.

Keep us updated; SI support is just a post away.

If one believes in the 'twin flame' theory, then one has to believe in God/Creator, because HE would have created 'twin flames' all over the world. (Hence making your ww 'NOT special or unique', but just a regular cheater). If 'twin flames' were true it would make sense that God would put the 'twin flames' TOGETHER on earth in the first place. That way it wouldn't be adultery.

I guess she never thought of this. She's just delusional.

Good Morning Everyone

Well, yesterday was my best day thus far.

Not as obsessive and needy.

I am now really trying not to "fix" or change her.

It's about doing what's right for me and the kids.

When we do talk, briefly, it appears as if she is going along like it's a regular day. Do have to admit that pisses me off.

As of today I will be staying in the home and doing an in-house separation allowing a few months go by before I make any big decisions.

I think I need to continue the grieving process and plan out my future without her.

The one thing I am confused with is, on our Saturday together, which is "family day", do we do stuff as a family or seperate. I work Sundays so she has the whole day with jsut her and the kids. I really want to make things as less disruptive as I can.

I spoke to her friend and she and another fiend are meeting with her on Friday and they want to knock some sense in her. They are very upset with her actions. (I know that they cannot change her).

(((Felco)))

I know this is incredibly hard, but you really do need to focus on yourself and the kids. As far as family time goes, I would try to eliminate that totally. For your own sanity. It really is less upsetting for your kids to have daddy time without seeing him anxious, and nervous, and sad which is what they would see if you tried to play happy family.

If you can, try to discuss with her that you will take the kids for the entirety of the day. Plan a day together, if it includes weekly chores, like getting the oil changed or going to the store then do it, but be sure to add in something fun for all of you.

You can do this, you will make it through and a year from now you will be amazed at the changes you have made in yourself.

(((and strength))))

Agree with tushnurse. Also, if you have family time, then your wife is truly going about business as usual

Don't give her the pleasure of your company. Continue the 180 - pleasant but short. Don't initiate ANY conversations with her. Don't engage, at all, no matter how much you want to.

Print the 180 out, or put a copy of it on your phone, and read it daily, if not more. Read it as soon as you wake in the morning, during the day whenever you feel like breaking it, and the last thing before bed.

Remember, it's about YOU. Strengthening YOU.

As far as family time goes, I would try to eliminate that totally.

Felco, I agree with TN. My STBX--even when we were separated--wanted to continue with our "family time." This for her was a form of cake-eating: she got to have her husband and the OM on the side. It was very difficult for me to resist these "false family" activities, since I wanted so desperately to believe that it meant everything was "normal" and would work out.

I also rationalized--briefly--that this might also be less disruptive for the children. But then I realized that the opposite would be true. My children would be more confused as they were so hopeful that we would get back together and would have clung to this as evidence that we would.

The times that I gave into my own neediness and lapsed back into "family time" it ended up crushing me emotionally and setting back my healing.

As you say,

It's about doing what's right for me and the kids.

And what is best for you and your kids is to begin the process of real separation. I was exactly where you were, both emotionally and situationally, and someone (probably lots of people) on SI reminded me that this is not "real" family time. It is an illusion. Very very hard to internalize, I know.

Be strong, Felco, and continue your 180--hard. For you and for your children.

Felco are you taking care of yourself?

1) Eating right, staying away from bad food?

2) Working out, building muscle, losing weight?

3) Seeing to your emotional health, getting counseling, taking antidepresants?

Use his time to improve yourself. Go back and start doing the old hobbies you quit for her sake. Start hanging out with your buddies more. Start going out more... make her stay home and take care of the kids.

Throw out your old clothes and buy nice, sleek modern clothes that make you look and feel more attractive. Start talking to other women... try flirting. You don't need to cheat, but just having nice conversations with other women can boost your self-esteem.

Start living for yourself and avoid staying home and moping.

Oh and never, ever stay home with the kids while she goes out with the OM. Let her know you are not her babysitter. If she does any way, hire a sitter and go out yourself and have fun.

[This message edited by DefeatedDad at 2:25 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)]

Great advice.

I will not spend time with her except with on a need to basis.

I am not much inot fashion but will go out and get some new clothes and ......my back waxed. TMI

I only say that because she has been asking for a while and she even brought it up two weeks ago. But this is for me and my confidence not her.

I just took some time off and went to see the kids while they are with the nanny. MUCH needed!!

These past two days have given me strength and as time goes by, things will become clearer.

Thanks again to all of you.

This Forum has been a blessing.

For me, I don't have kids involved, but I definitely didn't see any movement off the fence until I took a stand and batted him down off it myself. That may not be a good option for you, but I couldn't sit there and let him continue on living the same lie as always. There had to be consequences and discomfort for him or he was going to be stuck on that fence forever, trying to tie me to it with him. I refused. Two days after I spent a night away, I gave him a 24-hour ultimatum ("now" didn't mean anything to him). That woke him up as the clock ticked away. It was hard to talk about and much of the 180 went out the window, but it was necessary for us. Every situation is a bit different. I had to kick his butt to the curb and insist he leave, telling him that he made his choice and if he wants to find his twin flame so badly, he can't have me and everything he has now. The road is forked and he can fully commit to R or he can leave right now. That was what I did and it's working at this very early moment but it really is too early to tell anything of merit. I'm new, so don't take my questions as advice, just brainstorming. It remains to be seen if this track will continue in a positive vein.

Has your attorney given you ideas on how you can legally and carefully force her out of the house if she won't leave? Is she being a fit parent? My WS announced I would need law enforcement to remove him. I didn't engage in that bullshit and told him we're not talking about that now (but if we were, he made the decision to cheat, and with that the consequence is he doesn't get to live with me anymore).

[This message edited by tagalong at 4:26 PM, December 31st (Tuesday)]

Felco, I have been following your progress and am glad to see you are now standing in a stronger position. You've come a long way! You will get through this better than before no matter how this plays out.

ML

I am really trying to do the right thing for me and the kids. I think making any abrupt or emotion decisions is not the right way. It's hard but I know it's necessary. I would love for her to come crawling and fighting for me but she is lost and I am not going to help find her.