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When I say staying in the house, I mean for a few months to not completly change everything in one big swoop. Plus, the nanny lives here, there is another family who has to find another place, sell the house, ect. We both do not have family near by so my kids have the nanny as there rock.My kids are 3 and 1 1/2..babies

So, I think doing this in a somewhat mature slow fashion is the right thing.

Her having a green card is advantagous to the family because she will be able to work where ever instead of one place and they don't always have enough hours so thus less money for the kids.

There is just the logistics of living under the same roof.

I think sleeping in separate rooms so having my son in my room and she can sleep in there or vise versa. Adjusting the night routine as dinner with the kids, mom takes shower while I play with kids, kids bath with mom while I clean up after dinner and kids, both do bedtime and then off on our own. We only share Saturdays as a day off so I will be with the kids on Saturday and her on Sunday while I am at work.

We don't talk about anything except kids, finances, and household stuff.

While living together I will be planning my future without her and my exit plan. In a few months we can discuss the out-of-house separation.

I know I NEED to move forward and not allow fear and my emotions take over....DEEP breaths!!!

With all due respect, this is the biggest pile of shit I've read yet. This is excuse making because you love her and don't want to live without her. The nanny could keep living there, without your WW being there. Her greencard is her friggin problem, as is her money. She made this mess - why do you feel it's your responsibility to bail her out?

She needs to go. You know it. You're making excuses because you don't want to separate, and you think if you tell her to get out, that all hope is lost. Let me tell you - all hope is lost if you let her continue without consequences. You are doing exactly what is BAD for any hope of R. You are letting her keep her cushy life, her nanny, her family, and her dopey dreams of OM. NO NO NO

She needs to see that behaving like a teenager is on her, not you. Your kids will be just fine. And now you're going to share a room with your son to accommodate her? Are you shitting me?

Sorry - this was harsh, but you need to see that you are stalling on any real actions because of your fears that it will really be the end, and in the process you're telling her that what she is doing is fine and has zero consequences to her.

As is often said, if you want to save your marriage, you need to be willing to lose it.

Please take a stand, and stop being her safety net. She loves someone else? Great - get the fuck out then.

She got her green card less than a year ago and needs to be married to me for two years to keep it valid so divorcing would not be the best option. We will have to do a legal separation.

When in doubt talk to your lawyer and let them guide you.

You may already know all of this and if so please ignore it.

If you haven't talk to your lawyer about you and your WW's legal rights concerning the children in this Country and her Country. Your children may have dual citizenship depending on the country and how it determines citizenship. While no one wants to hear this you need to ask the question just in case. The question is what happens if your WW wakes up one morning and walks out the door with your kids taking them to her home country. You may or may not have any recourse to get them back. Talk to a lawyer and ask the question just so YOU are aware of the circumstances for yourself. Right now you have no agreement in place so she can leave the house with the kids and you can't stop her.

This is something you need to know whether you R or file for D. Whether she is your W in the future she will always be their Mother. What happens if 5 years from now you are D and she gets married and wants to move back home where she and her children are citizens and you are not? Ask the lawyer and let them answer.

I get that you aren't fully detached yet but believe me after a few months in the house with a foggy WS you will be. D is not the best option for your WW right now but a few months from now D may look like the best option for YOU. Take the time you need but don't be surprised if your WW hangs around long enough to get citizenship then files on you. Her children are citizens but she is not...yet. Either way keep a VAR with you in case any craziness starts up.

Again not trying to scare or upset you. Just trying to think of things you may or may not have considered yet. I hope it's a non issue and if none of this applies that's even better. I wish you the best.

7yrsflushed,

Excellent Advice!!

Felco, I know right now you don't believe your WW would do this, but she would not be the first WS to do something of this nature.

I assume you never thought she would cheat right? Protect yourself and your children - speak to an attorney as soon as possible.

I have the kids passports and making copies of the birth records and her papers. Thankfully her family is there for me. I just called another lawyer who specializes in divorce and immigration.

It does make things a bit more scary but the OM lives here with his two kids and she thinks they are one.

I know some of you thing kicking her out is the best thing to do.

But, she is nursing my son and we cannot afford it.

She makes more money and it would strap us further.

So, today, what I wrote earlier is what I will try to do

I understand where you are coming from and you are still new to this trauma...

If nothing else please protect yourself and the kids financially and legally and start it immediately...

I think you can still lawyer up and find out the best strategies to protect your finances and establish yourself as the responsible parent while you are still in the house with WW..And follow the lawyer's advice to the letter..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 2:48 PM, January 2nd (Thursday)]

Felco, SI members are awesome and have given great advice and sharing their experiences. Even though no two situations are identical there are very similar phases that BS & WS go through. It's bivouac that your WW is not out of the fog. It's been about 4 weeks since DDay? Married woman and married men that do this handle an A differently. I've seen more woman leave their husband over the "soulmate" who is married. I've seen more men want to reconcile with their wives than women. Another fact is that she works with MM. Regardless if there is contact, no contact or little contact at work ....it's at work. Making more difficult to "let go"

The MM may really want to fix things with his wife or the rumor that his wife makes him sleep somewhere else could indicate that she's caught him in more lies, blame shifting or has broken contact through emails, work phone etc...

Doing the 180 was the BEST thing I finally did. It killed me inside. Because my H would be affectionate or text and call me. Then within a week ....bam! Back to giving me the silent treatment and arguing or telling me all the same things your WW says. I can't help how I feel, I didn't mean for this to happen, I never wanted to hurt you, I've been unhappy for years, shift the blame anyway they can. Every step I made forward was like another dagger to my heart. I sold stuff in the house, I made calls to see where I could go. I had a letter notarized that would allow me to take our daughter out of state. He cried, begged, told me he still loved me but....he couldn't help his feelings for her. Talk to a lawyer and know your rights. Don't make decisions based on feelings of what she is saying to her friends that she's separating. This is why members here say to wait 3-6 months to decide. For me it was a yr of rollercoaster hell. I blame myself for it lasting a yr!

Blamed myself because I kept giving chance after chancel he seemed sincere, cried and said everything I needed to hear.

When it came down to it, he contacted her again. My opinion is if you want to R, do the 180 and give it 6 months. If you want to move on then file when you can. She is in for a rude awakening.

May God give you strength then Felco, because you are going to need it. You are not giving her any consequences for her actions. By living together, separately you are allowing her to have the best of both worlds. You are the one who looses in this scenario. She should have thought about her nursing issues BEFORE she decided to have her A. She can stop nursing at any time, and with all the drama going on, I suspect she isn't providing enough of the proper nutrients to your baby by nursing him.

I know you feel that you are doing what is best, but honestly this is very very confusing for your toddler. It also is sending the wrong message of what healthy and normal are at a very crucial time in his brain development.

I would also URGE you to talk with her "Twin Flames" Spouse. She also has the right to know all the Bullshit your wife is pulling and what she is up to. This will not push them closer together, if anything this is going to help her Flame see how completely batshit crazy she has become.

Seriously, who has an Affair while still nursing an infant. WTF? That is all kinds of messed up. When my babies were that small the only thing I wanted was sleep. Sorry for getting off topic here.....

You really need to reconsider your stance, and no matter what we all say you need to think about what's right for your kids, and you. Not her, and her money and the nanny's money, and her green card and all of that stuff, but what you deserve and how you need to be treated. What kind of example you want to make for your children.

((((and strength)))

Hey. I just wanted to check in to tell you that I know that it seems like a lot of us are piling onto you, with our advice. I can see where you might feel that we're trying to put you in-between a rock and a hard place. I just want to re-iterate this.

We all care about and for you. We are here to support you. We'll offer you our suggestions and experiences. You can take what you need from us, advice wise and support wise, and leave the rest. That's OK.

I can actually understand why you would not want to get your WW out of your house while your youngest is nursing. That's taking care of the baby, not her. It does give you some time to get your legal ducks in a row. But other than arranging your children's schedules and financial talks, you do need to treat her as if she is an unwelcome guest that you have to tolerate for a while. Please do get several VARs and make sure to have one on you at all times. This really is for YOUR protection. If she panics because the reality of the door hitting her in the ass is sinking in and calls the cops and accuses you of anything violent, they HAVE to take you away. No recourse. You HAVE to be able to show that the physical altercation where you hit her, was you asking her to leave your room and her throwing a hissy.

Hang in there. We are all behind you.

Thanks again and I know everyone on her is trying to help. Sometimes the truth is hard to hear.

Just returned from my IC.

He says in her head she is done and is in this fantasy world.

He also thinks talking to the OM will do nothing.

So, I need to be done.

I am going to write up a in-house separation plan and email it to her.

It is a hard reality but thats life.

I realize I want something that is not there. UGH

The visa thing. Your wife has a CR1 because your relationship is considered conditional, i.e. not yet permanent. If you divorce prior to being married for two years, she will not be able to adjust status and stay in the US permanently. Once your children are 18, they can petition for her, but not until then.

If you choose to stay married to save this from happening to her, then both of you are engaging in marriage fraud, which is illegal, and it will cause her to have to pay more penalities on down the line if it comes to pass that your children do petition for her. It also will likely prevent her from getting a tourist visa to enter the US to visit the children.

Just so you know.

[This message edited by cayc at 5:56 PM, January 2nd, 2014 (Thursday)]

My opinion is if you want to R, do the 180 and give it 6 months. If you want to move on then file when you can.

I really gotta agree with offhispedistal on this one Bro....its time to go "Alpha Male" on her....and no, I don't advocate you eating your young....play hardball - set your limitations, let her know, then "back it up"....Lawyer up!!!

As others have mentioned - you are NOT gonna nice guy her back into your marriage - will NOT happen...my FWW pulled all the same bullshit - we're soulmates, he understands me, he's a lot like you, you'll like him once you get to know him ...

I told her that SOB can feed your horses....kinda a pun - she really had horses, you get the idea, I wasn't gonna feed them anymore...I was DONE!! I lawyered up....filed for divorce...and hit a pretty good, full court press 180... (after about 6 weeks of me "doing all the WRONG things").....its all in my profile, if you care to look at it...

Felco, dude....yeah, this cheating crap is bullshit...hardest thing I have ever lived through ...ever. It blows... you will be OK, with or without her...sooner or later....you will be OK.

You keep mentioning R...first thing you need to go is get your WW out of her fog - and the sooner the better...the longer you jack around the deeper her emotional attachment with the OM. As long as the other dude is in her head - R is impossible. You cannot reason with her...crying and begging wont work....and its not very sexy either....needy and clingy will not lure her out of her affair...she will get out on her own - if and when she figures out youre done...

Until you get a snotting, blubbering, crying, im so sorry I hurt you, mascara dripping off her chin apology - shes just humping your leg....at this point in my FWWs affair - I didn't believe a "fkn" thing she said....

I heard all the "ILYBINILWY"s..."we need to separate"...."I need my space".....yada...yada..yada...

Till her head clears.....assume your marriage is over....and work to that goal...ASAP!!! It took my FWW getting served before she "got it"....and began "doing all the right things"...your wife has pulled a horse outta the herd, you caught her coming out of the barn with a saddle.....don't hold that gate open for her...

No..i didn't want a divorce - wanted a cheating wife even less, KWIM?

Good luck...

Keep us posted...

Bufffalo

I am writng a in house separation agreement and will send it tomorrow or tonight.

I will continue on 180 and be strong. Yesterday was a small set back and I will not allow it again.

She has shown nothing and deserves the same

You are letting her keep her cushy life, her nanny, her family, and her dopey dreams of OM

As painfulpast said you need to face your WW with some nasty consequences for her behavior and this is not happening.

I would file for divorce immediately, facing her with a visit from US immigration and possible deportation without her children. Stop being a nice guy. It should be apparent to you that you need to pull out all the stops to save this marriage and that includes being thoroughly nasty if necessary. Alls fair in love and war and when your wife treats you like crap.

If your wife sees you being hard and tough it might garner some respect from her; presently she thinks you are an indecisive wimp and that should not be acceptable to you.

Again, not trying to tell you what to do but just offer some suggestions and a different perspective. This is your life and you have to live with the choices you make not me. All I can do is offer you some insight based on what I went through. Take what applies and leave the rest.

I am writng a in house separation agreement and will send it tomorrow or tonight

Who are you sending this too? Your WW or your L? Have your L look over any agreement before you present it to your WW. Unless you are a L yourself you are likely leaving out some necessary things or even leaving loopholes that can be exploited by your WW in the future. My concern is you set a precedent that the courts may use in the future that you may feel differently about then.

I went to my L and had her draft a PSA or property settlement agreement. It included everything in it, splitting of debt, clearly stated that there would be no spousal support, clearly defined that CS would be determined by the state formula and listed the amount in the agreement, clearly defined the custody agreement as being 50/50 and defined who had what days, clearly laid out who claimed the children on taxes, defined who kept the house, and clearly defined who gave up rights to assets and money and which we agreed to split. There was a bunch of other legal stuff in there that protected me that I hadn't thought of. The lawyer explained it all but I got what I wanted in it. My unremorseful STBXWW was told she did not have to sign it without taking it to see her own L first. It had everything she wanted in it so she signed it.

I would call our D amicable but I will say that I kept my shit together long enough to get what I wanted in the PSA while she felt guilty. My guess is STBXW wishes she may have taken it to a L now but at the time it had what she wanted in it so she signed it. My point is if you do the document yourself you may be leaving out critical things or even adding in things that may hurt you down the line. The L protects your rights and make sure you don't leave anything out. They don't have any emotion invested in it so they look at it all logically.

Having a L look over your agreement and tweak it doesn't mean you have to file. It means if you choose to file in the future the agreement can be used to make things go much easier and faster. In my case the PSA got filed with the D petition and since we covered EVERYTHING in the PSA all I have to do is wait out the 1 year waiting period in my state and then go in for final deposition and it's done. On the flip side if STBXWW had become remorseful and did the work to own her shit and we get back together I never go back in for the deposition and we stay married. In my case, whether she owns her shit or not is irrelevant because I am done but I put that in there to show you that filing doesn't legally slam the door on the M. It doesn't mean D until you actually get the decree from the judge. Again not pushing you one way or the other just saying you need to start thinking long term. Even if you don't want to D now get your ducks in a row now so you are ahead of the game when you do decide it's time.

From experience, waiting to talk to a L doesn't put YOU at risk, it puts your access to your children at risk.

ETA: This is tough shit to deal with but your going to be okay. We have your back!

[This message edited by 7yrsflushed at 8:25 AM, January 3rd (Friday)]

The in-house agreement is just how we manage living together whille allowing time to help guide me/us to the next step. I am not wanting to rush this process and my stupid decisions.

I will be talking to an immigration/ family law attorney on Monday to figure out her green card issue and other questions.

She came to me last night after her counciling session.

We did talk about the green card issue, living arrangements, and this issue.

She asked how I could ever be with her after all this. My reply was: " I want my kids to know I tried and made an effort and when I took my vows, I meant it". But I am not sure what will happen because at this point I am not working on the marriage due to the "elephant in the room".

At some point the "soulmate" came up, and I told her that if it is a karmic relationship then she needs to realize that all the deceit and damage you did has also brought out a lot of bad karma on her and this "relationship".

To be honest, I felt good that we talked.

Felco : when my H was on the fence, he told me something similar. " Why would you want to stay with me after all I did to you?" I could tell by his tone it wasn't something he was saying out of remorse. He went on to say " I just don't see how this could work, I fucked up big time" it was almost like he wanted me to tell him " you're right I can't stay married to you after all you did to me and I think you should just go after her...and we can be friends!

I won't lie to you and tell you R is great. The last contact my. H had with MOW was 2011 by email. The pain is less, I can sleep at night, socialize. But there's an enormous unexplainable pain that I carry deep in my heart. I agree with everyone. It is the most painful or one of the most painful experiences people go through in life.

I've personally experienced having to walk away from a marriage because the man I fell in love with, was my first, treated me like a real princess and ended up cheating. I found out later it was with multiple woman. Recovering was hell and I wished for death every night from the grief. I didn't date for a year. I was numb for that year. I met my current husband and it took me another year to trust him unconditionally because he had just gone through being cheated on and had a small boy from that relationship. No matter what you decide, it will SUCK for some time. So don't think there is an "easier" choice. Your feelings will be all over the place for much longer than you personally estimate. One moment you will be so angry at her, the next day you may dwell on all the great things about her...and you sort of put yourself in sinking sand. You are hurting for the person she was with you not who she is now.

I've gotten hundreds of advice through the years and I believe in 2 of them.

# 1. My mom's- "If you want to know in advance what type of

Husband a guy will be, just see what type of relationship

He has with his mother.

#2. My sister's- "You can dance bare naked on the hood of his

Car, he will not even notice.

In part I think the "Fog" makes our WS deaf and blind toward us. They don't see just how horrible their actions were,they don't see or hear our pain. They only see and hear their AP.

Unfortunately you don't have a crystal ball and just don't know

If R is possible in the near future, if she's going to snap out of the fog soon enough. Will she snap out of it?? I think so, either she'll be forced out of her fantasy world. She may restart the A if you send her to the curb, if his W sends him to the curb and they no longer have their spouses care anymore..then a lot of that excitement fades. She will see who he really is, arguments and regrets start creeping in. He will be able to see and hear again and realize how bad he screwed his wife over and how she NEVER deserved this. Or he may move on and not want anything to do with your W because he'll start to see her as the reason he lost it all. Your wife in return will go through grief and withdrawals from him and come out of it hating herself for a long time. Not be able to forgive herself.

She'll look at you and for the first time see all the destruction and pain she alone caused. I tell you all this because these are all scenarios that many of us have gone through. What will happen? I truly wish I could give you and everyone else hurting that answer.

Let me tell you - all hope is lost if you let her continue without consequences. You are doing exactly what is BAD for any hope of R. You are letting her keep her cushy life, her nanny, her family, and her dopey dreams of OM. NO NO NO

As harsh as this ^^^ is...it is so true. There is no reasoning, no loving her back. Stop talking to her and supporting her. She is not your partner, stop treating her like she is part of 'team Felco'. She quit that job when she took the OM as a lover.

We care so much for you and your situation Felco. BTDT

This is the reason why we are so emphatic about the way you are handling your delusional WW. Cheaters are not so original. In fact they are so predictable it stinks. Let us help you.

Protect yourself. Honestly you need to detach, really detach and use the 180 for YOU. She cannot fling unicorn rainbow shit at you if she cannot get to you.

OMGoodness...Please don't speak to her anymore. She will continue to knife you in the back with that bullshit. Please STOP, Please.

So good to hear that you are going to see an immigration lawyer on Monday. 7Years has some good advice. I hope that goes well for you and helps to clear your road ahead with WW.

And if you are worried about WW nursing, she can pump the milk and freeze it. Then you can bond with the baby and do the feeding yourself.

Please take a stand, and stop being her safety net. She loves someone else? Great - get the fuck out then.

Painfulpast's advice is spot on. Sometimes the truth hurts.

Please read Bigger's profile. He is living proof of what can happen when you grow a pair and become the alpha male.

(((((Strength and Hugs to you and your babies)))))

If the Mom is deported, it may be the punishment SHE deserves, but the kids sure as heck don't deserve the punishment of losing their mother.

This is what I tell myself about my kids' father: *HE* doesn't deserve them, but THEY deserve to have a father in their lives. Absent severe pathology, an involved parent in their lives is better than absence.

And if she's deported she may still have the right to have the kids visit her in her home country for long periods of time. I don't see that as a win for the original poster. I wouldn't want my Ex to live next door to me, but when it comes to co-parenting, closer is more convenient. As much as I dislike my Ex and don't enjoy seeing him, I sure as heck wouldn't want him living in a foreign country. Not until the kids are grown.

And if she's deported she may still have the right to have the kids visit her in her home country for long periods of time

If she's deported, then she can't take Felco to court for visitation rights. This is a non-issue. Once she is out of the country, there is nothing she can do if he doesn't send the children.

Felco - please listen to the advice here. I'm sure talking last night did feel good. It was also a big mistake. Every time she is up for talking, you talk. Please tell me, what consequences has she faced? You are backing down every time she decides to speak.

The 180 is hard. This is hard. We know. We've been there. What will be harder is when she is gone for good.

We are NOT trying to hurt your marriage Felco, we are trying to help you save it. We have all been through this, and we all say the same thing. This is very valuable advice you're being given, and you're choosing to ignore it.

Please don't send an in-house separation. There is no need for it. Please stop all communication with her. If you want something sent to her, have your lawyer send it. That would even send a message. If you send it, its saying she's still in your head.

Felco, if you want your marriage, you need to knock her off the fence. She has one leg over in OM's yard. You need to pull her off. You cannot pull her with candy. It takes swift, hard action.

It's hard, but it's worth it. So far, you've done it your way, and you've made no progress. Try it our way. See what happens. After all, you know the current method isn't working, so you need to change strategies anyway. You've tried super nice. You've now tried not around as much but available. Try our way. Try the 180. Try showing her that you are all done with everything that is her. Make her see, right away, what she's losing. You're trying to be nice because you love her. Well, if you love her and want to stay married, you have got to change tactics.

You've heard from so many people that have been through this.Without being sarcastic, why do you think your situation is different than all of ours? Trust me, it isn't. There is nothing magical or special about your wife. She sat crying all day when you had left. She told you that. She felt it. Now you're back, and she's back to lala land.

Tell her she needs to leave, or you'll file for divorce. Tell her she's OUT. Have your lawyer send the separation letter.

Please Felco - time is wasting.

Ok everyone. Thanks for the advise and beleive me I totally value everyones opinion and advise. I am getting better and stronger as days go by. She is sleeping in the loft by herself and I alone no kids. How can I kick someone out when they pay the mortgage? and she has been givin advise to not leave due to abandonment.

I am seeing a Lawyer on Monday about the green card issue along also the divorce. The seperation agreement letter was "approved" by my therapist and it is something in writing that states how the in-house separation will be.

I am in contact with the OMW and she and him are sleeping in the same bed, going to therapy, going to church, he is home more with the family and putting in the effort. He will be leaving the company in Febuary once his contract is up.

I am limiting any time with my WW. Yes, we talked yesterday night but I really tried to limit it to just the basics and yes I said a little more but I am also human and will do things at times.

I have already secured the kids passports, half the savings is in my possesion, bought new clothes, planning things with just the kids, ect.

Once again, we have another person, another family and my kids involved in the decision making so I am trying my best not to disrupt everything.

Please know I am trying my best but I also need to remain true to me so some things are not natural and I am not going to be fake.