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My WW reached into her purse and pulled out 2 large envelopes and slid one across the table to me......

This is incredible. How in the world did she pull it together in such a sort time, strategically and emotionally, and then execute so flawlessly? It's like she had been planning this for a long time prior to Dday #1.

Hello SI. I couldn't sleep so I'm back. I explored this site a little yesterday and I feel I've learned a few things. I was reading about the 180 and realized I've been doing this since D Day 1. I admit I've eased up some in the last few days but that's only because my WW has gone to such extremes to help me cope with eating this shit sandwich she created for me by having 3 ongoing PA's and by lying and deceiving me for several months.

Yeah she was one busy little woman balancing her affairs with her part time job and then usually coming home and screwing my ears off to boot. Except for the times she would cut me off for snooping too much. You see I was trying to get the evidence I needed to nail her pretty little ass to the wall for cheating on me. If it sounds like I'm trying to make light of this situation, I guarantee you I'm not. My moods have been all over the place since D Day 1, and right now this is just the mood I'm in. Please bear with me.

If I could, I would hate my WW. My life would be so much simpler then. I made the mistake of letting her move back in to have Christmas with our children and our grandchildren and I just can't kick her back out now. I have to be honest with myself. I hate the things she has done. I hate the pain I feel. But I could never for 1 second hate her. I still feel very protective of her and as long as she is here with me, I know she is safe.

Earlier today my WW was testing me by being a little playful. I didn't mind so I played back a little too. The rest of the day she shot me little sexy little glances every once in a while. And I admit I enjoyed it. But I had no plans on taking it any farther. Going to try to sleep now.

This is incredible. How in the world did she pull it together in such a sort time, strategically and emotionally, and then execute so flawlessly? It's like she had been planning this for a long time prior to Dday #1.

still-living I figured WW got the ideas from this web site because she's the one who introduced SI to me. But she says she was following our attorney's instructions. She went to see him the day I threw her out to have the papers drawn up to give up her marital rights.

DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT consider her offer to have an affair yourself or a three way.

Why?

1. It will assuage her guilt and give her reason to say, well, you can't be mad anymore, you did it too. Many WS offer this as a get out of jail card.

2. It will make you feel SO much worse, not better.

3. It will complicate your efforts at R, believe the many many people who have tried this tactic.

4. Do not lose your morals and integrity over this.

Leon-

I just read through your posts and wow I am amazed.

I do hope she didn't do what you think she did. I wonder if it wasn't from her infection. It is something that you need her to answer soon.

No matter what she did or her reasons"WHY" is not your fault. None of it, ever!!! Do not not her cast doubts about yourself- you did nothing wrong. You even followed your instincts.

I also am leery of a woman who pulled two letters out of her pocketbook just like that. It almost sounds premeditated to me and I would be a little suspicious of her actions.

I am confused at her her coming out and calling herself a whore and your reaction to it. Was is just a stress thing? We all do crazy things under duress.

Your first priority it to yourself. Take care of you. If she has already seen an attorney I would suggest you do to. Not to file for D but for information. Giving up you marital rights sounds strange to me and I don't know what state you're in. here in this state I can say I give up my marital rights but I still get half of our property and money. It's the law. I only hope it is not an empty gesture from her for your sake.

If your MC doesn't seem to hear your complaints or issues se an IC. I would suggest that anyway. I value my IC more than my MC. She is the one who I could vent to and she helped me clear my head.

It is always suggested here not to make any rash choices. Give yourself 6 month to 1 year. However if you know something is a dealbreaker and that's it- you know.

Leon-

I just read through your posts and wow I am amazed.

I do hope she didn't do what you think she did. I wonder if it wasn't from her infection. It is something that you need her to answer soon.

No matter what she did or her reasons"WHY" is not your fault. None of it, ever!!! Do not not her cast doubts about yourself- you did nothing wrong. You even followed your instincts.

I also am leery of a woman who pulled two letters out of her pocketbook just like that. It almost sounds premeditated to me and I would be a little suspicious of her actions.

I am confused at her her coming out and calling herself a whore and your reaction to it. Was is just a stress thing? We all do crazy things under duress.

Your first priority it to yourself. Take care of you. If she has already seen an attorney I would suggest you do to. Not to file for D but for information. Giving up you marital rights sounds strange to me and I don't know what state you're in. here in this state I can say I give up my marital rights but I still get half of our property and money. It's the law. I only hope it is not an empty gesture from her for your sake.

If your MC doesn't seem to hear your complaints or issues se an IC. I would suggest that anyway. I value my IC more than my MC. She is the one who I could vent to and she helped me clear my head.

It is always suggested here not to make any rash choices. Give yourself 6 month to 1 year. However if you know something is a dealbreaker and that's it- you know.

Does your WW actually have friends that would be eager for a three-way?

In my fantasy BH mind I would say, SWEET! But on the other hand, are those really the kind of friends that will encourage WW to keep on the strait and narrow?

I personally wouldn't want my wife around anyone that has such a "flexible" understanding of marriage vows.

LonesomeLeon,

It seems one minute I know with all my heart I want to R and I want to spend the rest of my life loving her and getting to know her again, and then minutes later the thought makes me want to puke. pardon the French.

I honestly don't know which way it will go.

It is okay not knowing which way things will go. In addition to the choices to R or D, there is a third option to "Not Divorce". As you have posted, your heart and mind are all over the map right now. It would help you to take some time to process through your feelings and decide what you want. During this time while you are working towards healing, you can watch your WW to see if she sustains her desire to make things right.

By not divorcing you are not making a commitment for the future, you are simply watching your WS as you work on healing yourself. Later, once you have begun to reach acceptance and healing, and your emotions have stabilized, then you can look at where your WW is and what she has been doing to decide if you want to stay to work on the M with her, or not.

It would help you to take some time to process through your feelings and decide what you want. During this time while you are working towards healing, you can watch your WW to see if she sustains her desire to make things right.

I agree, once you know your safe from new hurts, turn inward. ride that horse, do what fills your soul for the moment with any peace that can be found in the shit storm. Then watch. WATCH ACTIONS. Don't believe a word out of her mouth and watch her actions to see if she is really all in.

Beside that wonderful horse, what else can you do for yourself today? Plan it and execute.

Have you contacted the wives of the other two OM to let them know what has happened in their marriages?

It sounds like your WW is remorseful. BUT. It also sounds like she is still lying about that night you gave her oral and tasted another man. If she is still lying about something so obvious, what else is she lying about?

I am sorry for your situation. It's all so sad isn't it? I have one concern for you. And that is your wws offers of a RA or 3-way. Specifically her insistence on the 3-way and even going so far as to ask friends if they would participate. I'm sorry to tell you but that is not a normal healthy response. It's very wayward thinking and I would be very concerned about discrepancies like this, as compared to what you are seeing on the surface in terms of remorse. I think it would help you to have your radar on high alert for these types of deep seeded behaviors and if you are seeing nothing alarming layers down, I think it will help with you wade through all of your doubts. But the thing is what your ww did involved some behaviors that were pretty out there. The ability to do some of those things are deep-seeded, so accordingly she has some personal abilities that are not obvious to you. That makes determining true remorse very difficult. What I'm trying to say is that the affair didn't happen in a vacuum. There is something about your ww in her makeup that allowed her to go where she did. So to profess it will never happen again, sign over the marital property to you, do the NC letters---while all huge steps that many of us only dream of---they do not include anything she has done to dig deep within herself. They are not efforts that she must take on her behalf to figure this out. What went wrong in her thinking, figure out how and why she was able to do such horrible things and think they were ok. And then once she does all of that, how does she fix it? How does she assure herself that person is dead and gone and prove to herself she is incapable of ever doing this again. Because unless she does this, neither you nor she will ever feel 100% secure.

On your job and flying---take time off. After my DD I felt cerebrally incapacitated. I forgot things, I had word finding difficulties, I couldn't perform basic daily chores like going to the grocery store, I couldn't concentrate, etc. that is normal so don't beat yourself up on that. But I worked in an office -- you fly a plane. You don't need me to tell you that one slip up in the air is far more dangerous for you. So take some time with your horses for now until you feel safe up in the air. Your mental faculties do come back.

Take real good care. I feel you are on the right track.

bit off topic here....but thought it worth mentioning the similarities in our journeys.

I see your Mom just left when you were young. My Dad did too.

I see you going back to your "boy-self" when under stress....to that trauma you endured as a boy. I do too.

I see you wondering how a man that can ride a bronc bareback can be so crippled by your wifes action. I do too....I fought intense western wild fires for years, initial attack action, crown fires coming right at me, black as night at high noon...nothing scared me like this trauma has.

I see you searching for the reason your wife chose as she did....I did too.

I see you struggling with sex...trouble doing things you enjoyed and your wife enjoyed due to unprotected sex with strange men.....I do too.

I offer no new advice....just one man telling another man.....I get what you are going through.

God be with us all.

[This message edited by blakesteele at 8:53 AM, January 7th (Tuesday)]

LonesomeLeon,

Your WW directed you to SI. Interesting. Is she a member or a lurker? If she only lurks then I would suggest she join and post as the WS here are very good at holding other WS feet to the fire in getting to the bottom of their issues.

I does explain how your WW actions have been textbook remorseful, which is not a bad thing. She appears to have sought guidance on how to keep you and the M and backed it up with actions. There have been some foggy WS who talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Your WW didn't know what to do to fix the mess so found SI (I'm guessing).

Now the offer of a 3-way...I think your instincts are right in keeping that a fantasy. She would not be the first wgf/ww who tried something like that. It's an attempt to balance the scales without an actual RA (revenge affair). Don't do it. It just won't work. Best case scenario she is pursuing this because is, from everything you've described, desperate to find some way to make you feel better. So she reaches out to a couple of friends because in her mind they're people she can trust (not!!). That they "would love to" do this is a red flag. I would have to wonder if these "friends" were privy to the A's. After all she supposedly came back from a girls night out when she had you perform oral that time.

Bottom line is that you both need IC. Your description of dday and the effect it had on you clearly demonstrates that it reopened old, traumatic events from your childhood. She needs IC to figure out her own issues. From what you described she wanted to act out, be the "bad girl" for once, but could not bring herself to do so with you. That seems indicative of almost a self punishment, of feeling less than worthy of you (among other issues). She needs to relearn boundaries and how coping mechanisms. She may never cheat again, but that doesn't mean she won't/can't turn to some other unhealthy coping mechanism.

Ok, I'm having a very hard time putting together a response to this but here goes...

DO NOT ENGAGE HER OFFER FOR A THREESOME OR REVENGE AFFAIR. DO NOT! This is a page straight out of the "I got caught cheating handbook". This will totally backfire. This a HUGE red flag as to how honest she's being. A very bad red flag.

She MUST get into IC. The whole "I wanted to be a whore" is bullshit. I'd love to be a millionaire but I'm not going to rob a bank. We all have fantasies, but acting on them when they put yourself and your husband in physical and emotional harm means you are broken and have poor boundaries and a slew of other issues.

Don't be afraid to go on meds. After my D-Day I coudn't even make a sandwich -seriously. I had to go on meds and am so thankful for them.

Have you contacted the wives or significant others of these men? If not, do it and don't tell your wife. They deserve to know they probably have a disease.

Has she written out a timeline for you? I would insist on this as I find it odd that she goes from years with one partner and a loving marriage to whoring around with two or three men. That's a rather extreme change in lifestyle. The sad part of this whole horrid tale we've all been sucked into is that cheaters lie. They lie a lot. Her actions seem rather erratic and I doubt she's given you the whole truth.

Lastly, that night she came home might be one of the most vile and pathological things I have ever read on this site. Have you discussed that with your MC? The truth about that night would be my line in the sand. I think you know the answer and until she admits it I wouldn't trust her. I would DEMAND the truth about that night.

Oh and she needs to back off with sex. She's only thinking about herself. That's not remorse.

Wow, so this thread took an interesting turn.

So she met you at McD's, looking horrible and with a letter of full disclosure and begging you for a chance...and the letter was lies. Nice. That is some masterful manipulation right there. And now, because she is "so remorseful" she's offered a three way with her friends and by golly, she's already even cleared it with them!! And is going to suck you off because it is good for you.

Um. There is more to her story. I'm sorry. I smell a rat. Be very, very careful. I think she is a hot mess and needs some IC. Stat.

My wife also introduced me to SI.

She told me she first found this site during her affair, but stopped reading because it made her uncomfortable. After dday when our marriage imploded and she wanted us to work, she came right back here.

My wife does not post anymore but she reads regularly. If your wife is a member and earnestly trying to fix things it isn't necessarily a manipulation ploy.

This close to dday though, retain suspicion. She has to earn that trust back, if you want to give it to her. She has spoken loudly with her actions, now she needs to remain consistent.

Good luck whichever road you walk. You'll be okay either way.

....another similarity.....how you noticed the physical changes in your wife. I noticed that too in my wife.

This trial has aged me too.

Peace.

But she says she was following our attorney's instructions.

Ok, be careful. She might just be following good directions and she does not really get it. In fact, i am concerned she is having such a fast turnaround. I am wondering if she is allowing herself to feel anything. Often people who have affaires have already justified it in their head and it takes time to rethink it. At some point I think she will need to rethink it and believe, -not just do what she's told. They say don't look a gift horse in the mouth, but we must in these cases. Look for subtle signs of change and try to understand her motives, doing things more than what others tell her to do. Just my opinion for you to consider.

Sorry your W is being such a twit. It sucks but there are some things you can do to put yourself in a better place.

My advice is as follows:

1) take the contract - verify it and sign it. Get it in writing and take the assets. Call her bluff if that is in fact what it is. Either way, she offered you the chance to secure your own assets take it.

2) Don't play her game, play yours. What's your game? What do you like to do? Run, play sports, read, movies, hang with friends, eat out? Go and do it! Without her. Set up your calendar for the next month and fill it with things for you. It's not M time. It's not W time. It's not family time. It's Leon time. Tell her you need to discover yourself again after her little childish A's. Turn inward. Watch her.

3) Lay down the ground rules. She is in the emotional penalty box. NC, routinely telling you where is going at all times and full honesty always.

4) Sex - this one is your call, but remember this: it's Leon time. If you are OK with the BJ's let her. If not, tell her. Explain to her up front what contact you are OK with. Explain why. She can make her choices after that. IMO there is nothing wrong with taking from her. She certainly has taken a fare amount from you. I mandated certain acts for a while after d-day. Not a popular thing but I was not running a popularity contest I was gaining what ever control over myself and my life I could again.

5)MC - I would skip it for now. Everything is too messed up for a 3rd party to reasonable be helpful to a couple. Take a break. Get used to living in-between and in the present.

6) Tell her you want to live with those rules for a month and then the two of you can re-evaluation. Maybe even MC at that point.

The key here is emotional separate yourself from you W. Screw her. She doesn't get your support right now...tell her to get thee to an IC! Tell her to search for why she has done this. After a month of so you can talk about it.

This is not long term relationship advice. It's no way to act in a caring relationship. IMO, after a S cheats you aren't really in a caring relationship for a while. Your in crisis mode. You hope to get back to the caring part, but for now act accordingly.

Take care of you...no one else will.

[This message edited by wert at 11:17 AM, January 7th (Tuesday)]

1) take the contract - verify it and sign it. Get it in writing and take the assets. Call her bluff if that is in fact what it is. Either way, she offered you the chance to secure your own assets take it.

Yes. This! I meant to come back and add this, but Wert beat me to it.