SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi,

Am now going to call an amnesty on saying thanks, because if I do it after every time someone is amazing to me, we're not going to get anywhere... though having said that, particular thanks to Nomistakeaboutit - the last para reduced me to tears (again) both times I read it.

Right, progress. We got up this morning and spoke again properly. Turns out she spent most of the night doing the same as me - not sleeping and Googling this situation (one day all marriages will be like this).

She was more honest this time and basically said that though the reason why she ended up staying over at the hotel was because everyone else was doing it and work were paying, that the reason she ended up staying up late drinking must have been because she wanted something like this to happen. She also admitted that she had sex because she wanted to and that once she started, she didn't think about anything else (i.e. me, implications, etc). We didn't go into details, and she said she could remember bits of it.

She said she read online that what she is doing is apparently well recognisd behaviour (she referred to herself as a cliche). I don't know if this is true as haven't Googled that side of it, but said that once women get everything they want (we're married, have relatively recently bought a bigger 4 bedroom house, are trying for a baby and booked an expensive long haul holiday - all things she has pushed for, though I wouldn't want to say that I have resisted any, bar perhaps the children thing at first, though we were still trying for a year), they then get restless and want more. And she said that this was how she has been feeling, and used the phrase 'self-destructive'. I don't think the fact that some people want to be marrried and still have sex with other people should be a shock to anyone, let alone on here. I also don't think that this is by any means a female attitude (!), though I pointed out that on two occasions when I've been drunk and women have made a move on me, I started waving my wedding ring around and talking about my wife.

Anyway, her attitude was 100% remorse. She apologised, told me she loved me repeatedly and that she wanted to stay together; cried so much she was making a fairly inhuman noise at one point; agreed to tests, not drinking any more etc; and referred to herself as an 'evil person' and a 'slut'. This was quite hard, as my reaction normally would be to hug her, but I refused and didn't reciprocate on the love part (or the insults for that matter).

I asked if she would tell me if the other guy contacts her. Apparently she was pretty upset in the morning and he texted 'are you okay?" to her work phone last night as he doesn't have her personal number. She said she deleted it immediately and will swing it so they don't have to work together again (they both work in multiple locations).

Anyway, we get to a standstill and I told her that there was nothing left to do apart from wait for the dust to settle, then I can make a decision, then we can see about councilling, etc. She was planning to go to a friend's, get some space and talk it out with her - though her original hope was that she'd stay and go to the cinema or something and try to move on together (I told her this was not going to happen!). I told her I wasn't going to kick her out (she has nowhere to go once work starts again on Monday as our friends are a distance away), but that if she did stay, all I could see was us sitting in different rooms not speaking to each other (as it's all been said for now). After about two attempts and more tears, she finally left to go to her friend's and is coming back tomorrow night so we can talk again before we both go back to work. When the door shut, the only way to describe it as that my heart broke in two and I cried for a couple of minutes. She immediately texted 'I love you' to both my phones, which I was tempted to reply to but ignored.

I was pretty f*cking low here, but this was a bit of a turning point, as I realised that I couldn't sit here on my own for over 24 hours, so I ate some soup, went for a walk around the park, and rang a mate to arrange to go and meet for a pint and to watch the football in a couple of hours. I managed to conduct this conversation without letting anything on, so I'm pretty sure I can hold it all together later if I have to. Once I'd 'achieved' all this, I texted my wife 'I know, don't worry about me in the meantime, I'm not going to do anything stupid x'. I didn't know whether to, but she was concerned about me being alone, so I thought the least I could do was reassure her that she won't be coming home to a corpse. She texted back more apologies, I love yous, etc.

None of this is ideal (obviously!), but I feel that I wouldn't have gone for a walk or arranged to meet friends if she hadn't gone. Anyway, I'm going to go for a swim, I feel (comparatively) better now and we'll see what tomorrow brings.

Thanks again all.

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 9:08 AM, January 11th (Saturday)]

I like your last sentence about seeing what tomorrow brings..The exercise that you are getting will probably have soothing effects.. Exercise outside in the fresh air is how I get rid of my anger or anxiety..

I am sure that you know children are possible if you R and years down the line you two decide that you want a family..Foster parents or adoption..

But with that said, protect yourself and any children legally from the get go..

Trust is the issue here...You may regain enough trust and love in your wife to be able to function in an authentic and fulfilling marriage with her someday..

But, after a deep betrayal like this, the injured person tends to not trust ANYODY 100% ever again..He or she verifies whether or not he /she can trust other people by watching their actions..

Counseling is good individually, but a word of caution..Not every counselor is effective..You may have to shop around for a counselor who has a philosophy that resonates with your situation..

Sending you strength...

[This message edited by doggiediva at 9:37 AM, January 11th (Saturday)]

That does sound like progress. Everything you're experiencing (uncertainty, hyper emotions, lack of wanting physical closeness right away, etc.) is completely normal.

As I'm sure you can understand, some of your healing (and her's) will only happen after the passage of time and the observation of actions. It's harder to do, but try to pay attention to what she does even more than what she says.

The fact that she is 100% remorseful is the best news in all of it and offers the most hope, IMO.

You seem to have good instincts on how to handle this situation (huge props to you for finding this website so quickly, as an example) and how to care for yourself (walk, swimming, pint with mate - all perfect). Good luck with everything. You're doing amazingly well.

I'm envious. It took my wife 2 years to get the point your WW is now. We still have some trust issues but we are on the road to true recovery. This is a long process. Give yourself time to grieve the loss of your old marriage.

Bear in mind if your wife can get you to quickly forgive her and buy into her intense remorse, then you are more likely to resume trying to get her pregnant. That might be worrying her more than anything; given she very much wants to start a family and she is 38. Time is running out and she needs to get you back in the bedroom ASAP. Sorry to be so cynical, but most people are motivated by self-interest as well as genuine guilt.

She wanted sex so she decided to go ahead and screw the guy. What about the next time she is this type of situation?

How can she ask you to be faithful for the rest of the marriage when she cheats on a whim? Where's the trust now?

TheWrongerMan,

My DD was Dec,22,2013. I have had two very short talks with my WW. Still living together, we have 2 DS 7 months and 5 years old.

Believe me as much as I want to have our happy family I just don't see myself every truly be able to be happy in this relationship EVER again.

With that being said im still not making and rash decisions until I know I have better control over my emotions.

I did the same as you and still am doing the same as you. Asking questions to my self suchs as, What about the house we own, custody, CS,SS. I have even look at apartments, condos etc...

Currently looking up Lawyers and reviews. im all over the place. Looking up success stories people that have R. I am extremely thankful that you DO NOT have children to consider.

What im trying to say is whatever your feeling, however you are handling it, believe me there is someone on this site reacting very similar.

I would like to say I cried whiling reading your post about your talk with your wife. I wish my WW showed remorse like that. I long for it SOO much. I believe without the children and financial security I provide she would be gone.

The reason our talks were so short, her response to my questions were " Why do you even want to talk about this" when I ask for how many times she slept with OM she said I don't know I pushed for an answer she shrugged her shoulders and said Maybe 3 times.

Im hopeful for you and your WW, good luck keep posting it is extremely helpful to speak with others in the same boat as you.

Hey there. I'm glad that you found us for support. I'm so sorry that you had the reason to come find us.

I'm walking out the door but I had a couple of things that I wanted to share with you. Your wife definitely needs to stop drinking and I would suggest that she goes to AA if she has ANY problem with staying off of booze. If it's a social thing, then she might be able to go cold turkey. If its an addiction, then she will need their support.

Next, she needs to write a NC (no contact) letter to her OM. This letter should be short and to the point, and she should run it by you before it is sent. Something to the effect of I made a horrible decision on Friday night to sleep with you. The thought of us having sex fills me with disgust. I love my husband and I am fully committed to him. I do not want to speak to you again and I do not want you to contact me again. Sleeping with you was the worse choice I have ever made in my life.

The last thing, is that my FWH had a ONS too. Unfortunately it was also linked to years of him using pornography, and then a slide into corresponding with cam girls, let me rip you off for money by promising sex girls, adult dating sites, and ultimately a ONS from one of those sites. He did not confess I caught him. He lied to me several times. Despite that, at 19 months, we are doing very well. So, given that your WW confessed immediately and is exhibiting signs of remorse, it is likely that if you want to, you can forge a new marriage. Personally, I would start MC with your wife. Often we suggest that you wait until the WS is ready to commit, but being as she seems to be ready right now, I would suggest it. We started MC within a week of DDay, and I can say that it was a HUGE help for us.

Best of luck!

There has been good advice given here. I have just a few things to add. For one thing, you are going to go through emotional stages. You may well have periods of extreme anger as well as bouts of tears. Do not make any long term decisions until the emotional roller coaster evens out a bit.

Another thing: as I suspect you've discovered, you are relatively lucky. Your wife confessed and told you most of what you wanted to know. And she's expressed remorse. I think you might want to do two things though. One is to have her answer all the questions you have NOW (which I think you've already done) and then let her know that you may want more details in the future.

The other thing is to try to find some of the postings on SI that express what an affair does to the betrayed spouse. I'm sure some here have links to it. Sadly, I do not or I'd post them here. I advocate this because sometimes the wayward spouse does not fully grasp what the betrayed spouse goes through. The reason for this is that, in your case, she KNOWS that it was simply a physical affair with no emotional meaning. But you don't know that, at least not in your gut. The material I'm talking about will make it clear to her.

I also second the alcohol idea. From what you've written I gather that she has a serious problem when she drinks too much and you know you have to keep your alcohol consumption under control. Give up alcohol -- she because she has to, you because she'll feel much better about it if she knows your making a sacrifice as well.

All in all, I think that this may well have a good end. I certainly hope so. No, neither of you will get your old innocence back, but you can still come out of this with a strong marriage. It will take work and there will be hills and valleys, but it can be done.

Okay, thanks all again (again).

Went out and got fairly drunk (but not wasted) last night and it was less distracting than I thought it would be. I kind of think that this is the closest I'm ever going to feel to being schizophrenic (I mean that in the loosest sense - I'm not actually worried I'm going psycho!).

The best way to describe it is that I read an autobiography by a professional cricketer once, who said the technique he used for batting for really long periods of time was to only concentrate and focus when the bowler was about to throw the ball at him, and then straight after he had hit it, he would then switch off for 30 seconds or however long he had until he had to concentrate again.

Last night, when I was talking to my mates, I was able to be engaged, laugh, make jokes, etc, but the second I wasn't talking/listening, my mind, instead of conserving mental energy like the above, was instantly doing the exact opposite and turning over all of this. And then as soon as we started chatting again I was, by and large, straight back into being 'normal'. This was to the point that when I was walking down the road three steps behind my mate, I had to suppress myself from full on breaking into tears (this happened at sporadic other times too, like when he was at the bar, etc). I was obviously doing a pretty good job as no-one asked if I was okay/pointed out I was being weird, etc.

Plus, even weirder, I also started developing small physical 'ticks' (this has never happened to me before) where, when something built up inside of me, the only choice I had was to do something physical to 'release' it. I think it was because I had no outlet for my emotions - i.e. crying - so it was the 'best' I could do under the circumstances. Plus I was drunk. Happily, now I'm at home and sober again, even though I'm alone, I'm not doing this any more, so don't think it will be a long-term problem, or even tomorrow when I'm at work.

My wife texted me about six times, starting off with I love you, I'm sorry, etc, and moving into, please let me know you're okay. I ignored them all (I thought texting her yesterday to tell her not to worry was borderline too nice of me as it was), though the closest I got to responding was when she texted 'I hope you're okay' I was very tempted to reply 'I hope you're really where you say you are', though I knew deep down that I know where she is and I was just being spiteful, so I left it. She rang me about five times too and I just cut the call off every time without answering. One welcome side-effect of drinking was that I slept for about six hours (better than the three the previous night), though I'm not stupid enough to think this is a viable long-term solution!

She will be home in seven hours and I suppose the question is what to do next. Am prepared to share the above and hear what she's been talking about, etc, but don't think the core situation has changed (easiest best described as 'we both love each other but we both hate her'!). My general instinct though, thanks in part to the positives here, is to carry on as we are (don't kick her out, sleep in separate rooms, talk calmly when we can) and see how our feelings pan out.

The biggest question, I suppose, is how long do I keep 'punishing' her for? As someone said before, am not sure all this 180 stuff strictly applies to us, though I obviously see the value in not caving in immediately (plus I couldn't do it if I wanted to anyway as I'm too p1ssed off). However, we obviously need to move forward and I have to commit to marriage counselling/trying, etc at some point if we're going to try reconciling.

I suppose this is just a representation of the larger internal conflict that we all go through, veering from 'I want a divorce now' to 'I was partly to blame and I should forgive'. The other issue I have is whether to drop this sh1tstorm on a mutual friend. Currently I have no one to vent to apart from this place and my wife.

The one thing I do know now though is that I do still love my wife, and I feel, at this point in time anyway and after reading all of the above, much less like I want to get divorced than I did 36 hours ago.

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 6:39 AM, January 12th (Sunday)]

TWM,

...a couple or thoughts.

I suppose this is just a representation of the smaller internal conflict that we all go through, veering from 'I want a divorce now' to 'I was partly to blame and I should forgive'. The other issue I have is whether to drop this sh1tstorm on a mutual friend. Currently I have no one to vent to apart from this place and my wife.

You do understand that you were not partly to blame for her ONS, right? If not, what do you think your part was in the choices she made?

I would definitely lean on a friend right now and tell him what has happened. Don't expect much in the way of good advice, but I think it would be healthy for you and not a burden for a good, true friend.

TWM - don't worry too much about "ticks" and weird schizo-seeming thought patterns. It's normal when you're in shock...you are going to be ok.

I sincerely hope your WW is truly remorseful - and this is a post that talks about what that looks like:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250&HL=25460

I do have a couple of questions...

The sex in the hallway - this happened the day before?

It makes me wonder a bit...you know, if she kind of had him on her mind and worked herself up.

The other thing was about the morning after pill.

Was she already in possession of them, using them after you had sex (since you weren't on board with having babies)?

I'd want to know more about the nature of the relationship, was it truly a ONS? Or, had there been some time of flirting previously (work colleague)?

I wish you peace and strength.

You do understand that you were not partly to blame for her ONS, right?

Hi, yes, this was a simplified comment based on the millions of thoughts I've had over the past few days and I was referring to our marriage being worse than it was, not the fact that she XXXXed someone else. I totally regard the one night stand as her fault and, to a lesser extent, his (whoever he is). As others have said, I resent the fact that he came along, XXXXed my wife and then XXXXed off, and now I'm sat here dealing with it.

Apart from the child thing and the basic fact that we've been together for so long, I think the biggest problem is that I have a more realistic idea of how a relationship is likely to be after 17 years. We had an amazing run for over 15 years (I'd say that's better than most people manage) and it's natural for there to be some downs too (and this patch, pre-one night stand, has been pretty much our first one, though still not that big a one, or so I thought). She seems to have a rom-com enforced attitude that everything should be perfect all the time. I'm not saying that complacency is a good idea, but you do have to be realistic.

On the fact that she said she had recently been feeling 'self-destructive', she said that she thought she had been looking for something for a while to shake up our marriage. This was followed by a sarcastic comment to herself along the lines of 'Yeah, and this was a great way to try our marriage'.

She also says she wishes she could turn back time. That would save us now (presuming she didn't go back and decide to XXXX him again!), but it does change the fact that deep down she might just be a really XXXXing horrible person (that's what she claims to think about herself at the moment anyway).

Apologies for not acknowledging and replying too all responses. They are much appreciated but we seem to be working to a bit of a time difference, so I'm receiving them in batches.

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 7:47 AM, January 12th (Sunday)]

The sex in the hallway - this happened the day before? It makes me wonder a bit...you know, if she kind of had him on her mind and worked herself up.

Day before, yes. She told me that on the way home she had been think about the fact that she hadn't been making an effort generally recently and needed to start, and that she had enjoyed it (which seemed to be the case at the time). Also, am not sure an hour long commute home would be long enough to sustain that feeling, even for a man!

The other thing was about the morning after pill. Was she already in possession of them, using them after you had sex (since you weren't on board with having babies)?

No, I didn't even ask about this, but she relayed in passing when talking about how dreadful the whole of the next days that she had to leave her course at one point to go and get one.

I'd want to know more about the nature of the relationship, was it truly a ONS? Or, had there been some time of flirting previously (work colleague)?

I didn't want to get into this as so many issues flying already, but she basically fessed up that she's been having thoughts about another guy at work who she gets on well with but who has a girlfriend, and she knew that the way she was feeling was ridiculous. He was there that night but left a bit earlier (this was part of her admitting that she subconciously went back to the hotel vaguely hoping something might happen). This guy left and then the thing happened with second guy. She was completely honest about feelings with the first guy, and said about the second guy that she doesn't even like him particularly. To make it even more ridiculous, apparently these two guys are good friends and are going on holiday together soon.

The feelings for first man thing was relayed to me during her rant before Christmas, but after we discussed it I kind of shrugged it off and gave her credit that she wouldn't do anything stupid (I'm not really the jealous type and I'm not stupid enough to think that people aren't natually going to find other people attractive). Her friend she has been speaking with about this said this sounds like she was laying a path here and basically asking for my permission. I'm not sure what this really means, but I wish she had actually asked if that was what she was doing, as I might have made the 'no' that I thought was obvious a bit more explicit!

I guess, as she knows that I already know that she was having feelings for someone at work, there is the possibility that she's lying here to make the one night stand seem less bad and totally emotionless. To be honest, this didn't even occur to me until I typed all of this, I obviously need to check this tonight. Suppose I need to remember that I now need to be more suspicious about everything and not believe everything she says any more. Not really how I want to/am used to running a relationship.

Wrong. If what your doing is "punishing", you need to take a step back and re-evaluate your approach. Its a dangerous mindset that can feel good the short turn but may burn your bridges later when the dust settles. I'm not saying she shouldn't feel the consequences of her bad decision, but turning the knife out of anger is counter productive.

Sorry, poor choice of words on my part, I guess I meant how log should we stay in limbo for? I suppose only I'll know the answer to that. Was also in reaction to posters on here saying 'don't brush it off straight away or it will happen again/they will leave you'.

Re: I sincerely hope your WW is truly remorseful - and this is a post that talks about what that looks like

My wife has done all six of the things listed (some repeatedly, more times than I can count):

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

That's really a good sign!

Take your time - you need time to recover. Let her continue 'doing the work', I'm very happy to hear this.

She needs time too - to plumb the deeper things that were going on in her mind in regards to planning this, or anticipating it.

I hope she 'goes there', as hard as it is to do so - in order not to damage things further by lies of omission or minimizing.

Consider too - if you can feel safe doing so - the Wayward Forums, telling her about this site. They are amazing in there too, and they would definitely be willing to help her flush out her reasons...

Just a thought.

If she is truly remorseful, and does the work - please believe me - you CAN R.

Give yourself time brother.

Wrong. If what your doing is "punishing", you need to take a step back and re-evaluate your approach. Its a dangerous mindset that can feel good the short turn but may burn your bridges later when the dust settles. I'm not saying she shouldn't feel the consequences of her bad decision, but turning the knife out of anger is counter productive.

His wife was having sex with someone else 48 hours ago. It's a bit early to worry about being counter productive or anything else at this stage, imo.

There hasn't been enough time for the smoke to clear, let alone worry about D or R, or anything else. At 2 days out, everyone turns the knife out of anger.

OP is two days out from the event itself - but being critical is a bit premature, again imo.

TheWrongedMan, you may want to get away for a couple of days - or ask her to stay elsewhere - just to clear your head. Trying to digest all that has happened with your wife around you trying to explain and apologize may be overwhelming. Make sure you have some down time to absorb all of this before making any decisions at all.

The other thing was about the morning after pill. Was she already in possession of them, using them after you had sex (since you weren't on board with having babies)?

I saw this and had the same question. Are you sure that she left and went to get one?

Painfulpast. I understand. But those of use who reconcile usually later regret giving into the anger and some of the rage enduced actions/statements. I'm just trying to say learn from our ( my) mistakes.

I saw this and had the same question. Are you sure that she left and went to get one?

All I know is what she told me (I hadn't even considered that she didn't until now, are we seriously now raising the scenario of me raising someone else's child?!).

Re anger, not an issue. I haven't even shouted at her once, let alone threatened, broken anything, etc. Have been kind of like I am on this forum, I suppose.

Re getting away, she is away now and has been since yesterday morning. Is coming back tonight to discuss (as I wanted to do this before I have to go back to work and act 'normal' in front of people and before she goes back to her workplace, though apparently she is back in her normal office away from these people tomorrow).

Discussion okay, said she wasn't looking forward to going through it. Bit concerned here and asked if this was because there were more revelations to come. She said no, of course not, mainly because she is embarrassed and ashamed, especially that she has done such a terrible thing and still doesn't really know why, and that she is still trying to understand that herself (also said she is 'hiding'). Didn't get into details but there was mention of emotions and alcohol, as opposed to my thought that the marriage was in a much worse state than I had realised before this happened (though there is still obviously much to discuss here too).

That's kind of it - thanks all again.

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 10:18 AM, January 12th (Sunday)]