SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am glad you found us, but sorry you need to be here. You have had some great advice, and there is a tremendous amount of support.

I am going to add a couple of points. First, your responses are not about "punishing" her, it is about protecting yourself and healing. If you feel comfortable with something (i.e. sleeping together, holding hands, etc) do it. If you do not feel comfortable don't do it. It is about you coping and dealing with the aftermath. In all honesty it took me over a year to decide what I wanted to do. The great thing is you do not have to decide anything right now. You have all the time YOU need to make a decision.

You are fortunately as it sounds like she immediately told you what happened and has been open about it. I fought for months to get information. For a betrayed spouse that in itself is a gift. It doesn't make it hurt any less, but makes the fighting for details easier.

You mentioned in your first posts that she seemed unhappy months ago and discussed marriage counseling (MC). It sounds like she was struggling a while back ago, and may have contributed to her actions. Remember, this is about HER actions, not you. Skan had some great advice about MC, however, I would add that you both might want to consider individual counseling (IC) also. That will help her to understand her behaviors, but will also help you work out if this is something that you can live with and if so, how do you heal. My IC helped me tremendously, but I didn't start until well after a year of the A. I regret that, I needed it sooner but just didn't realize it.

In reading your story, I don't think the 180 is necessarily what either of you need right now. It is to help with the unremorseful wayward partner to help the betrayed partner cope and heal. However, there are parts of the 180 that are appropriate at times, which sounds like you are implementing. Which is not engaging when you are not ready to engage. By ignoring texts and phone calls because you are not ready to discuss.

One other thought, you might start considering what is your list of dealbreakers and subsequent consequences. For example, if she breaks no contact what happens? If he breaks no contact, she should immediately report it to you (she can't help what he does), but what is the consequence if she doesn't tell you. Is her "arranging" not to work with him enough? (My WS told his supervisor what happened, and I spoke with her to confirm he had told her. His work was then reallocated to avoid encountering her. But I was able to confirm they were working with him to avoid contact.)Or does she need to find another job. When deciding these rules and consequences, you need to be prepared to follow through with the consequences. I, unfortunately had not though everything through back then (learned my lessons after joining SI) and when he crossed lines, I was left trying to figure out what to do next. If I had figured out my plan previously, it would have been easier to implement.

Take care of yourself right now. It is very easy to fester in the pain and not be able eat and drink. Self hypnosis helped me with sleeping (my IC helped with that too!).

Sorry Wronged, if your not angry now, you will be. Its called the rollercoaster. Today your numb and calm, or sad. But like switch being thrown,the anger will hit. And it hits liked a freight train. The timing is different for everyone.

[This message edited by Twitchy at 10:22 AM, January 12th (Sunday)]

Her reasoning is so wooly and illogical; you still need to know why she pulled off all of her clothes and did this very intimate thing with another man. Also sounds as if she slept with him. Showered with him?

Its very important that she gathers her thoughts and tells you just why she committed this betrayal. Its easy to brush this incident under the carpet under the general heeding of being drunk. I think its a lot more complex than that, and that reconciliation should be at a snails pace if she won't explain her reasoning. Its not punishment its due caution; you don't want repeat cheating down the road.

Painfulpast. I understand. But those of use who reconcile usually later regret giving into the anger and some of the rage enduced actions/statements. I'm just trying to say learn from our ( my) mistakes.

I've reconciled, and I haven't lost a minute's sleep over anything said in the first few days post DDay. Honestly, any WS that would dream of holding any of that against a person, imo, isn't remorseful in the slightest, and isn't worth the effort.

Wronged, how are you doing? Anything new?

For your own protection I would recommend:

- refrain from any sex until the possibility she got pregnant to OM is passed.

- treat any positive pregnancy result within 2 months of the ONS as being certainly the OM baby and treated accordingly.

Just a thought - if she did in fact buy a morning after pill, there would have to be a record or receipt somewhere to prove she did in fact get it?

She should be able to show you documentation to prove this.

Good luck.

Wait, so she had feelings for guy no.1 but went with guy no.2 the one she didn't like, and you know this to be true how? Because she told you?

My spidey senses are tingling. Something is off here. You said the only thing you know about Om is he is "divorced,one child." In another post you say,"OM whoever he is." Am I to understand you don't have his name?

This is what Im thinking...OM IS the guy she has/had feelings for. The one with the girlfriend. She told you he was divorced so you wouldn't tell his girlfriend,and so she could continue contact with OM. I think you're only being given half of the truth. Something is off here.

Do you have his name? Has she written a NC email to OM..and you sent it,so you know it went out..unaltered?

In addition to what Phoenix said above:

- treat any positive pregnancy result within 2 months of the ONS as being certainly the OM baby and treated accordingly.

I may be being paranoid, but I would be concerned that the spontaneous hall sex (which you said was not like her) was orchestrated to ensure that, knowing she was going out of town perhaps planning (even in a casual or joking way in her head) to sleep with OM/guy she liked, she would have a specific instance of sex with you to cite in case she did get pregnant.

I hope I am just being way out in left field, but my head had alarm bells over the "coincidence" of the sex and her ONS.

Hello,

Apols for not updating, since last post she came back, we talked for about 4.5 hours and then had to go to bed as it was 1am, then I got up and went to work. Don't want to do this on work computer/phone so have not been here until now.

Have asked about which person it was and says again that it was his mate. Haven't asked her to put anything in writing as I thought this could be potential 'ammunition' later. Also, she is already concerned that she has to appear professional on the odd occasion that she may bump into him.

Apparently he e-mailed her today 'How was your weekend?' She rang him back and told him what we'd agreed - 'I have told my husband about what happened, and really serious things are happening here. I can't see you again.' I was a bit XXXXed off here, as I told her I wanted her to say 'I DON'T WANT to see you again'.

Also transpires that after their conference thing the day after it happened, he asked her if she wanted to go for a coffee, and she said 'I can't' and walked off. I said that this was not firm enough - making it sound like she can't as opposed to doesn't want to, and this is why he subsequently e-mailed her. She is convinced he is showing interest because he's concerned as he was upset the morning after. I told her she's being naive and that the 'How was your weekend?' e-mail is obviously him initiating contact. She agreed. She hasn't heard back since.

Also, I'm really XXXXed off that in the morning she didn't bolt like most people would, but that she hung around and that when she was v upset (re what she done), she let him hug her. She keeps swearing she doesn't have any feelings/attraction for him, but admitted that at the time she liked the sex with someone different and also this attention. If he contacts her again she is going to tell me, and I don't really think that without alcohol/after this she is going to end up XXXXing him in a stationery cupboard or something absurd like that.

She has booked in to see a councillor tomorrow, however, she has done nothing about booking in for STD tests, which I hit the roof about and told her showed she wasn't taking this all seriously (along with the slow dripfeed of info that I'm getting from her, like not telling me he asked her for coffee). She had been saying previously that she's still in shock and is in denial, and I told her that she is and that by 'protecting' me from the unpleasant parts, and not doing stuff she's said she will, she's showing that and she's not taking it seriously enough. She keeps focusing on trying to get me counselling, which I think is her diverting and not facing the truth. She has admitted that when she's alone it's better, as she doesn't have to face me/what she has done.

Despite all the talking, nothing else has really changed. We talked a lot last night, though whereas I focused on what she had done, she had prepared a load of stuff about our relationship over the years and the ups and downs. We talked all that through last night calmly, though she admitted she was trying to steer away from talking about what she had done. I keep steering it there, as I think she needs to get to the point where she truly accepts how wrong what she did was (although she is remorseful, etc).

Tonight's conversation was more heated, though still not really an argument. I still haven't really hit angry (I feel angrier when I'm not with her for some reason). I seem to be crying less, though today at work was a challenge at times. Things are amicable. We hugged at the end of our conversation a minute ago, though I've told her that the main bedroom is mine and she has to knock before she comes in, and she just offered me some dinner. Maybe I should be harsher, but it seems weird being so formal with someone you have been with for 17 years.

I can't believe I'm typing all this stuff. It seems ridiculous. I don't know why I'm so calm. Last night I tried to think about what she'd done to make myself angrier as I was being too nice, but I just felt like I was too tired to do it.

[This message edited by TheWrongedMan at 3:30 PM, January 13th (Monday)]

It sounds like you're handling things really well. I can see why her phrasing ("can't " versus "don't want to") bothered you.

You must be a very patient man to have calmly listened to her lost of ups and downs in your relationship! I'm not sure Imwoukd have been much in the mood for that, so close to DDay. The length of time you talked sounds encouraging, though.

Hang tough.

Am getting abut more impatient with her now. She is becoming more bolshy and adhering to the signs of someone who is in denial, etc, though she has read up on the 'stages' she will go through and has acknowledged that she using coping strategies, etc.

Also, she keeps throwing stuff out there, like 'maybe one of us should move out temporarily so we can get some space', 'I'm going to go to my parents' this weekend and tell them', and 'you should get away and see your (also her best) friends and talk it through with them'.

This was vaguely idle chat from her, but this morning I told her that I thought all of the above was a good idea, firstly because I think this is all talk from her and she doesn't actually mean it, and secondly because I think she might be right. Surprise, surprise, she then backpedalled on pretty much of all of it and started crying.

To her credit, since this discussion, she has agreed to read this:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=324250&HL=25460

Which I have found incredibly helpful (you might too, thanks to the person who posted it earlier in this thread), and she's also, unasked by me, texted a friend of hers who was on the receiving end of a full on terrible affair that my wife ironically coached her though (!). She is going to talk to her to try and get my perspective and has said that maybe I should speak to her too, which I really appreciated.

She is going for councilling at lunch time and the focus will be 'why did I do this?' She has also agreed to tell her about the way her behaviour is setting me back and discussing why it's upsetting me and what she's doing wrong.

Current plan (from me) is to stay in the house together until Friday, then one or both of us will get away. Meet up Sunday to regroup and then she moves out for a week to stay with a friend with certain conditions re drinking, who she speaks to, etc, and maybe we'll meet up on an evening or two for dinner and a chat or so on.

I am off to work now so can't chat for about nine hours, but if anyone has anything they can leave here in the meantime for me to get back to, I would appreciate it. All of your support is really helping me and I hope you are receiving similar.

One last thing, I have been recommended that I keep this site secret, but elsewhere that I recommend the wayward forum to her. My first instinct was secrecy, but she keeps saying I need to speak to people as she doesn't know I have this outlet. She also wants to speak to people who have done what she has done, so should I tell her about the wayward site?

Got to go, will be late for work. Thanks!

Keep strong.

I ask this because as you can see you cannot trust only her words at the moment & is important:

Has she proven to you that she really did purchase/obtain a morning after pill?

Can she produce a receipt or transaction record ?

If not then is she actively working on getting proof?

Without proof of some kind it would be wise to assume no morning after pill was taken despite her words, just like when people 'swear' they used condoms, only to find out later that they didn't etc..

Cover yourself, best to prepare for the worst than be blindsided again.

Good luck.

Ok. I'll just give you my opinions, at this point, and you can factor them in, or not.

Processing all of this has got to be so hard for both of you. It's the trying to drink water from a firehouse idea. ...just so much to process...and then try to compartmentalise the entire thing for nine hours, so you can work. It makes my head spin, just thinking about it.

I have to say that both of you are handling this really well ( relatively speaking). Maybe that's a bit like saying, "I have to say you did an excellent job on your walk through hell. Your steps were confident and you walked right on through vey nicely."

You really are doing the best possible, though, it seems to me. You, personally, are managing to keep your wits about you, somehow. She seems to truly be remorseful and in fairness she actually IS doing a lot (e.g. Stopping contact with the other guy (albeit not worded the way you would have liked, Counseling, talking with her friend who has been betrayed, addressing her drinking, talking with you about everything for long periods, etc.

I only have a few more minutes before as have to get my kids up for school, but I do have a few thoughts I'll try to get typed out.

The words she used when telling the ONS guy are a bit of a concern to me. Having been in a generally similar situation, I know the words that you wanted her to say were probably "dear ONS guy, yesterday, I made the worst choice of my life. You need to know that what I now realize so clearly just how wrong my choice was. It was a,drunken impulse and selfish indulgence, but I cannot dismiss that I chose to do it. I love my H so much and now. I have hurt him so much. I have hurt myself, too. You need to know all of this with 100% clarity. We cannot have any more contact, etc"

TWM, notice that even in my "ideal" Wording above, I still used the words "we cannot" versus "I don't want to". To me, given the context of the first part of the "no ore contact" notification, it is more appropriate to say "cannot". So, I don't know all of the words she said to him, but that is something that would be important to me.

Also, although I've never seen anyone advise this on this web site (therefore, it might not be a good idea) you could always consider making a phone call to this guy and communicating plainly, "you've participated in something that has hurt me deeply. You need to know I am not happy with you, but I will stand back if you honor the no more contact. I am not angry when I say this next thing to you. I am calm. If I ever hear again from my wife that you have contacted her, whether it is to go to coffee, go to lunch, take a walk, or anything else you think you might like to do my wife, there will be immediate consequences for you." (Note: Those consequences could be notifying work, etc., and shouldn't be physical, since you don't want to end up in jail. ...but he doesn't need to know that.)

Also, at some point, you probably need to notify his wife or GF, if he has one, but that is an entirely different conversation.

Regarding the week apart, I'm concerned that she was the one that suggested this. Very gently here, I would view this as a bit of a yellow flag. I don't know the context, so it's possible she was just suggesting it because she thought it might be a gift to you...what you needed....and not something she wanted.

Whether or not to point her toward SI, I don't know. My inclination is yes. You would give up your safe place,,but she would gain so much, if she chose to. Also, you would still,have the option of sending personal messages (a feature on this web site) to people for opinions. Those could remiss fully private.

In terms of whether she took the morning after pill, or not, I've got to assume that she is telling the truth about this. Surely she's not interested in getting pregnant by another man. You could always wait a few weeks and then have her do a early pregnancy test (over the counter product, at home) so you could both know for sure.

In terms of your not being angry, yet, I wouldn't worry about that at all. Dude, you're probably still in shock. Anger is not the first kind of defense, denial is. You're handling everything as well as anyone could. Hang tough.

[This message edited by nomistakeaboutit at 5:37 AM, January 14th (Tuesday)]

Wrong you are doing great, as much any of this could be called great.

Your idea for some distance is good. During that time, it might work out best f neither of you contact the other. Some true distance would be good for clarity. Booth for you and for her.

I would call the OM. Its hard to keep your emotions in check when you have to deal directly with them and any threat, real or imagines by them, could be spun out of proportion. A short, sharp no contact letter or email which doesn't include any ego kibbles is best. Something like...

What we did was disgusting. Your disgusting for taking advantage of the situation I stupidly put myself in. Never speak to or contact me again in any way ever again.

[This message edited by Twitchy at 6:20 AM, January 14th (Tuesday)]

Since your wife isn't forthcoming about the reason for her supposedly ONS, it leaves you wondering why.

Some relevant observations:

1] She didn't ask him to pull out or use a condom. Pregnancy or disease is a real issue here; why didn't she protect you from those possibilities? Also she knew she would be 'contaminated' with another mans bodily fluids for quite a few days and she was going to bring them home to you. Very romantic. Maybe she did it to hurt you. Also the question others have raised about the morning after pill, and her immediate access to it.

2] She has not been exactly truthful; bit of TT'ing and lies by omission; yet she told you how much she enjoyed the sex with the OM. She could have just said it was OK, why did she think it was necessary to tell you about her enjoyment. That must really hurt. May be the hurt was intentional.

3] You had a good marriage and she knows her own character and morality. She knew in advance that if she ever cheated she would need to confess to you. She is that type of person. Yet she had sex with the OM knowing she would need to tell you the next day and it would cause you intense pain. Yet she went ahead and gave herself to him. Again, an intention to hurt?

I suspect underneath it all there is great resentment, leading to justification for her 'dalliance'..

From a woman's perspective she will be devastated about her failure to get pregnant; she may think its now now not going to happen due to her biologically advanced age. Is it possible she blames you for this? Maybe you delayed attempting to conceive, or have not made a great effort, [all from her perspective]?

Just trying to explain her actions and possible reasons for her adultery. Why she readily confessed; not necessarily out of guilt however. Take my comments as you will. Just trying to propose fresh viewpoints about why she did this horrible betrayal, and caused you so much pain; from a background of a very good marriage.

The "Best" lies have a bit of truth in it to keep you from revealing the complete truth ie Trickle Truth. Her actions are premeditated.She wasn't happy with the marriage and that built up to her cheating on you.

As long as she works at that job there can be no reconciliation and its waste of time sending a no contact letter as long as she works at the same job as the OM.

Her hesitance to firmly tell the OM to go away is also a concern. I'm sure he has went out of his way to visit her at work to find out if "everything is ok".

Hi,

The the whole morning after pill thing, I am not as fixated as everyone else is. If this was the case, she had all day to decide to tell me that they didn't have full sex or that they used a condom. I am fully onboard, however, that at least subconsciously somewhere in her drunken mind this was all related to wanting to get pregnant. Also, if by some small chance she is pregnant, she will be out the door and she can get whatever samples that are required for the paternity test from him.

Re confronting the other man, though by the law of averages I am probably bigger and stronger than him, I'm only going to get to this if he tries again.

She raised distance, said she honestly can't believe I'm still allowing her in the house, and also a few friends have offered to put her up. I think she's also playing a bit of a game here, trying to push me into realising I want her to stay, hence her backpedaling when I went along with it. I do think it's a good idea though, and without meeting up, as I think she needs to think more about what she's done and I need to see how well I can cope alone (may need it in the future). I think the two main reasons I didn't do it before were that I was too XXXXed to be alone all the time, and at that point she had nowhere else to go (but now she does), plus also obviously her repentance and our relative civility.

Re her liking the sex, this came out as a part of me pushing her about why. She was saying it was because she was drunk and it meant nothing, whereas I was pushing her to admit the real reason was because she wanted to, so that came out with some pushing from me, as I wanted to get to the truth of it.

Re intention to hurt, she acknowledges that she is being self-destructive, and her friend told her she thinks that she did this to get a reaction and because she knows that I would never leave her (this wasn't said maliciously, but honestly about what her friend's theory was). This is starting to feel like a red rag to a bull!

Re resenting me for not getting her pregnant - yes 100%. She has a massive issue with the fact that I can't climax inside her (I never have through penetration with anyone bar once with my wife, though this guy did and very quickly allegedly) and we have to use some sort of device, so you don't have to be Freud to work out what she was getting out of this at the time (I have told her this).

I left for work feeling that there was a good chance of reconciliation and feeling positive that we were making progress, then spent the rest of it almost determined that I've had enough and this is the end. I think the angry stage is coming. Will see how her session went and if she is still being bolshy. My aim is still to create some space between us with her leaving for a bit, and then I think this will resolve which of the two paths we take (neither is ideal, but I think I am starting to feel more positive, for now anyway, because I can see a way forward).

This may sound resentful, but I have realised that if do split, I will leave with my self-respect, a fair amount of money and all of our friends.

I know that despite what she has done, and when not in this drunken state, my wife is a good, well raised and educated person, with a moral compass and a conscience, and that she loves me, so this is lessening the natural anxiety that if we split, she will prosper and I won't.

She's back now so off for a chat (apparently she read the link I sent her which is encouraging). Thanks for listening.

Re resenting me for not getting her pregnant - yes 100%. She has a massive issue with the fact that I can't climax inside her (I never have through penetration with anyone bar once with my wife, though this guy did and very quickly allegedly) and we have to use some sort of device, so you don't have to be Freud to work out what she was getting out of this at the time (I have told her this).

This^^^ is a bit troubling.

Betrayal is the worst thing ever. There is no excuse. NONE. 100% on her and her poor choices.

I am speaking from my own experience. No judgement, just an observation~

There are a lot of women who can orgasm many different ways. But one of the biggest thrills for me is when the man orgasms or we can climax together. I am not sure why this is so but a life without that part of sex would not be so great, IMHO.

It makes me kinda mad that this is my reality! I am an alpha female but I have to acquiesce to him having the 'trump' in the sexual relations dept. Maybe its some sort of Ying-Yang thing?

Is there some way that you can seek medical advice regarding that issue? If you can show your WW that you care about her resentment and make an attempt to help her to help you that might be a great way to start R...If you would like to R...?

I know I am going to be shot out of the water...let me have it.

But this comment stood out to me. I just wanted to share my experience to let you see it from another point of view.

Thanks for reading my post.

Hi,

No problem at all, appreciate your perspective.

There are a lot of women who can orgasm many different ways. But one of the biggest thrills for me is when the man orgasms or we can climax together. I am not sure why this is so but a life without that part of sex would not be so great, IMHO.

This was never really an issue for a long time - and, without wanting to be disgusting, the non-climaxing aspect def had advantages for her at first. However, although I recognise that it's not the most common way, I never thought of it as a problem, though my wife said relatively recently that she was bothered by it and used words like 'not normal' about it, which I said was unfair - to stigmatise someone in this way would appear to be a good way of giving them a complex (after this week, I'm probably going to end up impotent at this rate anyway, so I suppose it won't be an issue any more!). It's not like I'm doing this on purpose. The other day I said it would be like me asking her to p1ss out of her ears. I simply can't do it (something, if I had to guess, that is physical and not psychological).

Anyway, onto tonight and we have discussed my wife's counselling session and she said that exactly what you said about sharing above has been an important issue for years, though the problem was that my wife never pushed about it until relatively recently as she hadn't realised how unhappy it was making her, and then she complained properly when it became an issue re babies. So my wife apparently didn't realise how frustrated she is by all this, and this incident is the result of that. So it looks like nail on head from you there. However, I'm not a complete tyrant, as my wife has developed a weird thing in recent years that, when she's about to climax, she stops herself at the last moment. I, or she, have no idea why this is, especially as she used to do it all the time. Anyway, enough of those details, unless you have more female insight on this.

Re medical advice, yes, I had already agreed to get it checked out before this all happened, though I'm obviously feeling less inclined to go through with it now.

///

Tonight's chat, wife said that I wasn't going to like what the counsellor has said. I braced myself, then was told that she was unfulfilled re above but hadn't realised how much (see above) and that that was why she did what she did. I then unbraced myself and told my wife that she'd paid £70 for someone to tell her what we already knew (is this the basis of counselling?). She also said that we had lapsed into a friends relationship, which we agreed was complete b0ll0cks.

We then had a chat, which was fairly amicable, though I was a bit nasty about what she'd done and I think she's starting to get it. I talked about her moving out temporarily, etc, and she eventually told me she doesn't want to and cried. She thinks maybe we should spend weekends apart and then weekdays together. I kind of think we need to be apart, and I said that she could come to terms with things and I could think about how I felt about being alone. I think psychologically I am starting to steel myself for this possibility. However, basically same situation as normal - lots of amicable discussion (bar a few nasty words from me), tears (all her's this time) and then a feeling that we both want to hug each other but me refusing, which all ends in an overall feeling of melancholy, pointlessness and ridiculousness about this whole stupid situation, which doesn't seem to have any right answer for either of us.

I think the only way to push this forward is to spend some time apart and see how we feel. We obviously still love each other and get on, but I feel like I'm being a massive sucker if I hug her when she's upset. It feels like the two of them have cooked up a massive sh1t sandwich and now I have to eat it. I also wonder if she is laying it on a bit thick to try and get my sympathy.

However, I suppose we're getting towards a time when we need to decide whether to go for it and get couples counselling. Also, I still haven't told anyone and she is encouraging me to tell close friends this weekend as she's worried about me. I think this would do me good as I can't spend another weekend while she's away with friends pretending to be normal, or the alternative, two days alone, but I feel like telling them may be a deal-breaker as, as liberal and understanding as they are, I personally feel like I might feel like a failure if they all know and then they see me take her back (as much as they all love her as well).

She read my article about the stages I'm feeling and said it helped, so we're going to read that through together in a bit. Then we're going to read another one together about the ones she is going through.