SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

(((((william and family)))))

I am so sorry that our Military is so cold blooded. Shitty.

I wanted to say thank you for your service and I wish they would do more for our veterans. It is shameful how you have to fight for basic mental health care. Especially seeing and doing what is needed in the military.

I'm still pulling for your family william.

This^^^ is so sweet. It made me tear up. I'm pulling for your family too. I hope with all of my heart that she does not disappoint you and let your family down again.

And I am wishing you peaceful waters for now while your WW and you work on mending the terrible breech she rent though the fabric of your lives.

Sending you strength and courage. Time will tell. Please stay vigilant and protect your heart.

William

I started a thread about consequences and punishment a few Days ago. One person brought up atonment and recompense. I Think this could be helpfull for you.

Id your WS doing anything in that regard for you? What is her thoughts about that?

@ painfulpast

i dont know if it is possible for a WS to put in more effort than a BS. there is a huge difference between eating the shit sandwhich you made yourself versus the one you force someone else to eat. i dont want to eat it, it doesnt taste good, and i resent being forced to eat it. but i guess eating it takes the same amount of effort - just different emotions involved.

my wife is meeting the conditions. delaying the deadline on the list was my idea, not hers. spending more time with our daughter and me at home seemed more vital in the long term so i stretched the deadline. shes been working at it while at work and she only has a limited time there to do it because ... well, she has to work. its further been complicated by the fact that she hurt herself roller skating in a nasty tumble and it is possible she has severely sprained her arm. shes only a few days from being done now. maybe i shouldnt have relaxed the time limit on the list but i did so because it seemed important not to take ALL time from the family when she has serious bridges to rebuild with me and especially our daughter.

i dont know if i put her on a pedestal. i feel alot of anger, hurt, pain, and other emotions right now. i definitely dont see her as floating above it all.

i think shes owning her crap now. i think she is past the blame shifting, deflecting, and justifying. i think she is experiencing and understanding some of the horror of what she has done and its rocking her to her core.

you could be right about the pics ... but honestly ... she did so much stuff with so many people i dont see why she would hide sending pics to this one guy. i already know of TWO handfuls thats shes done the same with, a few guys she kissed, and 3 guys she has slept with - one repeatedly. why would this one guy be different or worthy of hiding amongst the rest - especially when she came forward about them and i could never have found out about most of them on my own. i think its just "so much crap" that it got buried. but i could be wrong.

but ... ive also argued against posters trying to help me in the past. each time i have done so ... ive been wrong. repeatedly. so my track record on recognizing reality isnt so good right now. can you tell me how or why you feel i am putting her on a pedestal. not to argue but so i can understand. please.

i do agree its unfair. i dont think ANYONE deserves to be cheated on.

i still get what appears to be tiny trickle truths , but mostly in response to direct questions. the guy in OUR house is a good example. the story has gone from light kissing to heavy kissing to light touching to he definitely fingered her in our bed AND my wife said a few weeks ago that "50/50" she gave him oral sex in our bed. she cant remember but she says its high probability. sigh. this sh1t sucks.

her LTA guy is the 1 person we havent discussed yet. the others we went over in some depth although i do have some questions still and probably will for a long time. but then i realized that i didnt even know what questions to ask ... hence the list. i agreed to hold off on most questions, etc to give her time for the list which left her LTA un-discussed in any great depth. so the fact i chose to defer a topic for a period of time leaves me not knowing information that would have been covered in that topic for a period of time ... which leaves me when i ask a question and get an answer that i would have found out about later (probably).

i post every now and then on SI but i am on the site ALOT. i read very heavily in other threads and forums on the site to try to glean what can be of help. sometimes it is helpful and sometimes i wind up crying my eyes out over the constant outpouring of pain that is everywhere here, often both at the same time. ive read the 180 a few times. on your suggestion i will re-read it and see what i can glean from it.

thanks for helping! sometimes i feel like im in the stockholm syndrom and sometimes i feel like im doing the right thing. its hard to tell sometimes.

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@ YOP25

thank you so very much!

shes started posting in the wayward side. not so many responses for her yet. but the ones she has gotten have been helpful for her.

its a real bear to get any kind of help here. the good news is that she wants it and recognizes that she needs it. those are the two essentials.

i see alot of similarities between her FOO and her behavior. in some ways she was recreating that environment. i think she sees that now too.

your support has meant so much to me. thank you!

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@ getting to happy

thank you. your well wishes and thoughts mean alot.

i believe that she utterly means what she is saying and her remorse is genuine and yet my biggest fear is ... one day she finds herself in a situation and just goes right back into auto mode and crashes us.

i am also afraid that this fear will remain with me for the rest of my life.

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@ tomtefar

i replied in your thread consequences and punishment with a long reply.

[This message edited by william at 4:36 AM, March 4th (Tuesday)]

Not sure if she knows but your wife has a pm from me too since I can't respond to her thread

i read her the one you sent to me.

i dont know if she knows you sent her one too.

How are you doing today William? Still hanging in there?

stressfull day today. daughter was vomitting all night. i only got an hour or so of sleep in total. shes got a fever today. ended up arguing with my wife last night about something stupid that is neither here nor there but due mostly to the stress of a vomitting daughter.

ready to fall asleep right now but watching the little girl and snuggling with her.

just another day in paradise

thanks for asking. how is everything with you today?

on PM - she wrote you a long reply, it didnt go through and had no copy, so she then sent you a shorter one. thanks for giving her some support :)

I've got 3 kids of my own so I'm know all to well what those nights are like. Both my wife and I work so we share the responsibilities of sleepless nights. Feels like I haven't slept in 10 years now. But I love my kids and it's a small price to pay.

I also read back a little and not sure how you are putting her on a pedestal either. Speaking of which, I think it's almost deadline time for the timeline that you have desperately awaiting? How's she coming along with that? I'm sure it has to be nauseating experience for both of you at this point.

Ok that I didn't get her long message. Sad it got lost though. I see she hadn't posted in a few days so I'll send her a message tomorrow to see how she's doing. I have another IC appt tomorrow to specifically dive into some of my mother's issues and how to more productively control my rage when she's around. Maybe I'll touch base with her on that.

Still thinking about you William. Sleep well.

my wife may be pregnant. i was very careful and, dirty sex education jokes aside, im not sure how i could have managed to mess this up. i was REALLY careful. it could be a false alarm, periods can be late when under heavy stress and shes under some heavy stress. we are going to have to work on a more reliable form of birth control together, evidently our current way is russian roulette and just isnt going to cut it. sometimes life just keeps dealing crappy cards.

i absolutely hate the idea of her having to go through an abortion ... again. more so because this is what drove us apart during our false R. im going to make sure that im with her - physically and emotionally 100% this time. i know she needs me to offer support and help. it scares the hell out of me too because its "high stress" on her and anything that stresses her out - scares me.

my daughter is still sick. im home with her today. i do agree with what you said, its worth it. my daughter and i grew VERY close over the last two years. in the last months ive been more distant due to so much turmoil and pain inside of me. her being sick is actually helping me get closer to her again in a way, weird how that works out but definitely good to be getting closer (not so good that it took her being sick...).

i do see that sometimes, especially early on, that i was doing the blame shifting and deflecting for my wife. almost self gaslighting. as i have often posted ... its hard to tell whats real, whats delusional, and whats the stockholm syndrom without outside advice. i think ive stopped doing that now and can see more clearly.

shes working on the "full and complete list" still. its not done. its not really a "time line" in the sense it doesnt tell when. it only tells "who and what". but evidently there is MUCH minor stuff with many different people that didnt make it into the D-Days. shes making a list of people and saying what she did with them that was inappropriate, als listing lies and things she kept secret from before, etc. that kind of stuff. im terrified of "the list" and what it might contain.

the timeline will come later. that scares me some too but not as bad as "the list".

she posted today. thanks for all your support!!

Hi william. I saw the pregnancy news on your wife's thread earlier. I encourage both of you to turn towards each other for support. I sent her a pm with some words of encouragement.

You both are under such a tremendous amount of stress. Turn towards each other for help as much as you can.

Hope your daughter feels better soon. Good to see you starting to reconnect with her. She needs you more than anything.

im feeling really down since yesterday night.

exactly how long two years is ... its beginning to sink in. its mind boggling.

Sorry you are hurting William. Hang in there. Been thinking of you.

Sometimes we only let part of the whole sink in at first, because the full picture is too much to handle. It helps us get by but also means we sink into new lows of understanding as time passes. I'm sorry. The only brightside is that time does indeed keep passing and everyone one of those days, even the hard bad ones, is a step toward a healed self. But of course in the moment that is a small comfort and it doesn't change the difficulty of beginning to truly see what has been done to you.

i assembled my own sort of timeline and will rework it to incorportate what my wife gives me whenever she finishes her list. then ill have her take it and flesh the timeline out.

aug 2011 - my wife decides to pull away permanently.

early sept 2011 - she begins flirting with guy 1. around mid september they end up having sex in our car for ONS 1.

sept 2011 - she begins flirting and sexting with guy 2. they continue sexting, sending pics, and trying to arrange a 3-some for roughly 2 years. they meet one time and he kisses her, other than this there is no PA.

spring/summer 2012 - she has guy 3 come to the family business and hang out one afternoon. they flirt some, she sends him naked pics, and they sext some. she never seems him again however.

aug 2012 - she has guy 4 come to work at the family business. they both flirt at work with each other and come in on their off times to hang out with each other. one day he kisses her at work and she yells at him, he tells her she liked it. a few weeks later he tries again and she refuses to allow it. however, they both continue flirting with each other and seeing each other on their off time. she asked him out once, not sure if it would be considered a "date" but it never happened.

oct 2012 - she begins going to a bar and meets guy 5. this is the guy who ended up becoming her LTA, both EA and PA. their first sexual encounter was in late october and their next sexual encounter was around christmas or new years (??) afterwards it heated up rather quickly with much sexual activity between them, including in our house. she sends him many nude photos.

dec 2012 - she sexts guy 6 and sends him nude pics. he tattoos her arm. she goes home with home. they have ONS 2.

dec 2012 and april 2013 - she sexts guy 7 and sends him nude photos.

feb/march 2013 - she sexts guy 8. they send each other nude photos. he is married and has children. after D-Day 3 i outed him to his wife who has since discovered that he has cheated on her multiple times with multiple women.

march/april 2013 - she sexts guy 9 and sends him nude pics. they make arrangements to meet, unspoken is that it is probably sex, but changes to his job force him to change his travel plans and he cant come to this city. he tries to meet her in paris. she considers it but backs out.

may 2013 - she ends her LTA and tells all of the men that shes still in contact with that shes done with it all.

june 2013 - D-day 1. she admits to LTA with guy 5. claims EA only with a few kisses only. we begin false R.

jan 14, 2014 - D-Day 2. she admits that LTA with guy 5 was actually PA.

jan 18, 2014 - D-Day 3. admits to sexting 5 other guys.

jan 19, 2014 - D-Day 4. admits to the two ONS guys.

things that have come out since D-Day 4

1: march 2012 - photos sent to guy 10.

2: january 2013 - LTA guy 5 in my house. she had claimed only some kissing and touching over clothes. now it comes out that he fingered her in our bed and that there is a 50/50 that she also gave him oral sex in our bed while our daughter slept a few meters away in another room . in fact, im not 100% SURE that i have heard the COMPLETE truth about this one particular episode between them - ive heard he slept on couch or bed, that she slept on couch or bed or with daughter, etc.

that she told him she loved him many times, that she wished she had met him 10 years ago (right before she me me), that she wants to delete her present and her family (me and our daughter

).

3: that she deleted her fb account in march/april of 2013 and opened a new one with the intention of "going clean". however, she then re-added most of these guys back to her profile. that even after june 2014, when we were in our false R, some (at least) of the guys were sending her messages trying to get her to sext with them again, etc. she didnt do it but she didnt stop it either.

4: another ex bf that lives in germany. she is lightly flirting with him, they talk about meeting up in germany together, then he starts talking about his wife/kids and my wife stops flirting with him.

5: another ex bf that lives in the south of italy. she and he were "making jokes" about hooking up for sex in some southern italian city.

6: lots of conflicting information:

i never touched myself when i was with these guys VS i couldnt orgasm with guy 2 even though i was touching myself.

i never orgasmed having sex with any of them VS i orgasmed while having sex with them but never from anything they were doing, it was despite what they were doing.

i was never attracted to LTA guy VS at first i was attracted to LTA guy. i never told him i loved him but rather told him i cared about him VS i told him i loved him but didnt mean it. i only wanted him for sex VS i broke it off when he wanted the same long term relationship together that i did and i saw it couldnt work.

i never planned to have sex with ONS 1. i just drove the car to a deserted parking lot, kissed him, let him touch me under my skirt, suggested we get in the back seat of the car, and then asked him if he had a condom.

i never planned to have sex with ONS 2. i just sent him a text telling him he was attractive, sent him nude photos, went to see him, went to his house with him afterwards, and then took off my clothes when he touched my leg.

i went out in public with LTA two times VS i used to go to on walks in the park or sit in the park and talk to him in the afteroons + at least 3 or 4 other times out in public.

she wanted me to find out VS she used codenames for the guy in her phone, deleted everything as soon as it was sent or received, and lied to me constantly about who and what she was doing.

im really worried that despite her good intentions that this list wont be full and wont be complete - so far additional smaller information just keeps dribbling out. im inclined to believe her when she says she blocked most of the smaller details dribbling out so far because they are smaller and definitely dont compare with the bigger crap BUT i really wish she would just tell all the crap at once and get it over.

im also very terrified about what information is still yet to come out on this list. how much more extensive can it be, god ... its already pretty freaking bad.

im also really dreading going over the LTA with her after i have her list. hes the one that we havent really discussed in depth and hes going to be the one that is most painful to hear about.

im also really freaked out that she is going to come under too much stress and "flip that switch" again. she says it will never happen again. i believe she believes that. i also KNOW that a few days before ONS 1 she told a friend that she was in control of the situation, that nothing would happen, and she says she had no intention of having sex with this guy - and yet it happened. i feel like i need to watch her moods constantly now and am in perpetual fear that suddenly flips the switch and i dont even notice it ... i didnt last time.

and then ... to add to the stress. she took a pregnancy test last night. it showed up positive. an abortion is a rough thing for anyone to go through and this is now her second in a short period of time. i feel very guilty, afraid, and sad - all at once. sometimes crap just keeps getting worse.

on the other hand she is being strong, saying we will get through this together, not to worry, and that she loves me. somehow she is being so strong suddenly and im falling apart. which is also messed up ... because shes pregnant and needs me to be strong to help her. instead she is helping me.

life is so confusing.

[This message edited by william at 9:35 AM, March 10th (Monday)]

I'm so sorry on the timing of the positive test result. But I don't believe it's 'messed up' that she is helping you or that you are not feeling strong right now. Whether she is truly pregnant or not there are YEARS of cheating and poor decisions that are on your plate now. She NEEDS to help you through that. You can't R if she doesn't.

I've heard that the trickle truth can be what hurts the most and can be the most damaging to the R. That timeline is unbelievably painful and there is still more to come. I know she has been dragging her feet a somewhat with finishing this for you and that she has been doing so for several reasons. It's time william. It's time that she finishes this thing and comes clean to the best of her ability for you. Get that out of the way so that you can deal with the pregnancy and whatever decisions need to be made there together. I know she has a lot of everyday life challenges, but you have been tortured long enough waiting for this and this needs to get done now. It's great that she is being strong now. Can you ask her to use that strength to finish this so that you can move onto the next challenge together?.

William, I can so feel the pain you are going through. Your way of organizing your thoughts reminds me of what I do. I know my WH would say it is a control problem. I guess it is, but I prefer to think of it as a coping mechanism. I already know and acknowledge the pain of the A is there, but by verbalizing it and organizing it, I can look for things I might have missed and if there is progress, while it might not be measurable, it is at least identifiable.

I only read the first and last page... not because I'm not interested or that there aren't gems of wisdom in those middle pages, but because I am trying not to let the A my WH had steal even more of my life than it already has. And that is a difficult thing to achieve. I am getting a lot of help and support from the site, but as you probably know, it is easy to spend hours and hours going through this stuff. It's about balance. Historically, I've been able to find the balance... let me compare it to my reaction to 9/11. It was tough to get my arms around. I watched and watched the tv for days. But there came a point where I just processed it, figured how I would incorporate it into my life and then moved on. Life is too short and I don't want to miss the good stuff.

I applaud you for the energy and effort you are putting into your R. It looks like you are finding the balance you need. You are both broken people as are my WH and I. You are both worth the effort. They say that a broken bone mends stronger than the original bone. I hope that is what R becomes for the two of you and your relationship. Hang tight.

FYI - I don't know about everyone else, but sometimes it can take a long time to put my thoughts in these postings... and I can't recreate the process if something breaks when I submit the message. So I do a CTRL-A and copy the message before I hit submit to make sure I don't lose anything.

i HAVE to organize it like this because its so much stuff, with so many people, over such a lengthy period of time that i cant keep it all straight in my head.

its pretty devastating to see it all laid out like this. it rips me apart.

the list my wife is working on will make this even more convoluted. without this framework ill never be able to comprehend all the new stuff. god...

that list will probably be delayed because my wife caught the stomach bug my daughter had. no way can she work on the list while projectile vomitting. im trying to take care of my wife and daughter both now.

ugh. sorry she's sick and I hope she gets better soon. When I look at that list I feel ill too and I'm not in your shoes. You doing ok? Sounds like you now have to be the strong one with sick girls. Stay focused on them for the time being. For your sake though I hope you get this F'n thing soon from her. You can't keep going on like this william. I personally think fear of the unknown is sometimes worse than what you know. I get that this is no small list.

Peace, courage, and strength to you william.

it seems like a constant barrage of small things come out.

last night one of her friends sent her an email. this friend used to be very close but isnt so close anymore and is mutual friends with friends who are now NC with my wife (due to either condoning or abetting the affairs).

so my wife asks "what should i do". best of intentions. i ask her "does this friend know or was she involved"? my wife says "no. the only time this friend was ever there at this club was when my brother was ... you remember the time he argued with me there that i told you about then ... right?" so i say "okay. ummm what did you argue about"? she says "well, he was drinking alot. i cut him off. also he didnt like the LTA guy and was talking badly about him (even though the affair hadnt started yet and was still at a stage of mostly her flirting with him and trying to get his attention). so i ask "did your brother ever know"? she says "sort of. i told him later that i liked this guy in a more than friends way."

months ago and even weeks ago i asked two very specific questions.

1: who exactly knew or guessed or thought something might be going on between you and any of the guys you had affairs with.

2: did anyone in your family know.

somehow her brother's name never got mentioned.

the list she is working on ... the full and complete one of everything inappropriate said, done, or participated in ... i ask her "was your brother going to be on this list too?". she says "no". so i ask "you dont think telling your brother that you have a sexual/love interest in someone other than your husband is inappropriate"?

"oh ... i didnt know you meant that stuff too".

"ummm ... i meant EVERYTHING."

so ... the bombshell of now this crap is also inside of her family to some extent. that she decided to not tell me this. the feeling of humiliation that EVERYONE ... evidently ... knew about this stuff ... well, except for me. and a failure to understand a relatively simple word "EVERYTHING".

im pretty pissed off right now.

[This message edited by william at 6:24 AM, March 13th (Thursday)]