SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This MC certanly cares - he/she cares about being seen to be right. It is their way or the high way to disaster as far as they are concerned and it will be all your fault because you didn't listen to them. This message is all about 'start listening to me - or file for divorce - and be personally responsible for all the negative consequences that ensue. Including consequences to your children'

I think the MC projects all the potential bad outcomes of this situation straight onto your shoulders alone because you are the one not listening to them. They accuse you of having a victim mentality - and also accuse you of 'blaming' your husband - all while they are laying the blame on you themselves.

Personally I would ditch this counsellor pronto. Without question. I don't think there is any point whatsoever in more communication because they are totally inflexible in their surety that they are right.

I also wouldn't want my husband seeing them as IC any more either if I were you. While this person is influencing your husband as an IC I doubt that any other MC you try that has a different approach will be successful.

This is bizarre. Flush!

It is certainly a different approach than the one most on the board support.

I actually found it interesting, and thought there was fodder for thought in there. I actually find myself thinking about the victim aspect a lot. .. And whether it is helpful for me to see my H as a perpetrator. I am not sure that, in the end, is a helpful -or even accurate--way to look at it, even though that is how it feels.

I know I'll get slammed here, but I actually thought the emails were thoughtful, and the counselor seems to care a lot about your case. I read this one a second time, and I'd suggest really trying to hear what he is saying. I don't think he is a quack....at all. I actually feel pretty strongly that he could help you if you'd let him.

Just my 2 cents.

[This message edited by bionicgal at 5:00 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)]

I am a counselor, although not practicing, and while I have heard of others here using IC's as MC's, I never saw that as a good idea.

I'm right there with you. I'll also take it a step further and say unless you've got a good grasp on your clients as a MC and you are experienced, acting as both MC and IC for the same couple can be disastrous. And everything will be your fault.

Why are you continuing to communicate with an MC who clearly does not get it? It's as futile as trying to get an unremorseful WS to get it.

ETA: I think that, in general, when a counselor serves as both MC and IC to one/both of the spouses, it causes terrible boundary issues. And this counselor clearly suffers from those.

ETA again: I'd lay money that this guy is a narcissist.

ETA again: PM me this guy's name and I'll let you know the quality of his "research."

[This message edited by solus sto at 5:14 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)]

Okay yet again I cannot fully read this email because it is too enraging. I cannot, ever, imagine my IC telling me she was upset or emoting at all or justifying herself or even fighting with me or over advocating for her view! Sometimes she nudges, sometimes she asks me to think about something more, or proffers possibilities, but she never would fight with me. And when she does emote in any way it is with sympathy or concern! Not defensiveness!

I am also so icked out by the 'I could badmouthed you in WH's IC but i don't...I could bcc WH but I dont'. Um could you really do those things?! Are those even remotely on the table?! Why do they even need to be mentioned?! It is not taking the high road or something to refrain from those things--it should be the professional expectation!!!

Ugh just so strange and upsetting. Because what you really need right now is to feel attacked!? Honestly. I also haven't especially noticed you taking a victim mentality in your posts here; maybe you sometimes can lean that way IRL, I don't know, but I wouldn't have assumed this was your main mode from anything I've seen in SI. And people are usually pretty open here!

[This message edited by norabird at 6:34 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)]

What a windbag. Blah de blah de fucking blah. This douche needs to just accept hea been fire and go on with life.

He doth protest too much. If he really didn't have the viewpoint from the originally email it would take 3000 word to counterpoint it.

I will repeat from prior post FIRE THE MC, and as your spouses IC FIRE HIM.

Everyone - thanks for your replies - the perspectives are very helpful. Based on this second email, my thought was that the MC is not trying to be malicious but (outside of the general disagreement on victim and perpetrator) is being manipulative. The back story as to why he is doing this via email is that we went to MC 4-5 times (2 hour sessions) and at the last one, which was the morning after WH and I had yet another fight (can't remember about what), WH stated in MC that he would prefer to be there alone (since it is his IC as well) - so I left. This was a month ago. I have not been back. The MC has texted and emailed in an effort to get me back to MC. Thus the reason everything was via email is because he is not necessarily expecting to see me and have the opportunity to discuss these issues in person.

My perspective on him from the texts and emails - particularly after reading the texts that he sent WH - was that he was acting not as a counselor but as an advocate on WH's behalf.

Wow. This therapist is so inappropriate if consider calling the licensing agency.

Ivyivy,

I wonder if you are reconciling, or trying to, if you might get some input from that board. I think you may get a wider range of responses there. . . If you are interested in them.

What TheGarden said.

And yes, I would report this person. TOTALLY inappropriate. Just wrong on so many levels.

I'm in school right now to be an LCSW. This is just shitty.

My perspective on him from the texts and emails - particularly after reading the texts that he sent WH - was that he was acting not as a counselor but as an advocate on WH's behalf.

If I'm reading this correctly, he's texting your WH? Inappropriate. That should not happen. Be as angry with the counselor as you want for his own bad behavior but I'm curious as to what your WH said to him.

There was a post not too long ago bitching about how annoying it is to have counselors to be impartial in a case. You can't have it both ways. You can't have someone be objective and a cheerleader for you. This is how it becomes very difficult and why the client/therapist relationship can be very hard to navigate.

Your MC is trying to win an argument.

Nobody who tries to help you tries to tell you how you are supposed to feel.

eta:

Also:

Or, maybe, you will think, I am an incompetent and arrogant ass who couldn't care less about you? Probably what you will conclude. If so, that is a shame.

The fuck? Where did this moron fail psych 101? That's about as cliche passive aggressive as it gets.

[This message edited by StillGoing at 10:49 PM, February 22nd (Saturday)]

I suspect this MC may be a WS and relates to your WH. That's what happened with the first MC we went to. The man continued to take my husband's side and kept telling me that I should be 'over it' by now.

Really? It was 3 months post d-day when I had found out about a 5 yr LTA and I should be over it in a few weeks?

I got the feeling that he was a WS and I asked him if that was true. He did not answer me. Instead he said that was an inappropriate question.

My feeling- if he was not a WS he would have said so and then said it was an inappropriate question.

We wasted 3 months with this guy before I stormed out of the office.

We found another MC that was much more empathetic. She was trained in EMDR and viewed the infidelity as a trauma and counseled us with that in mind.

This whole kerfluffle was started because of an email that you sent to the MC that stated how you were feeling and why.

And this MC responded to you by chastising you. You did your list *wrong*. Your feelings are *wrong* and are going to lead to the destruction of the whole entire FREE WORLD!!!!

This MC's behavior is way outside the bounds of professionalism.

@Stillstings-- it seems that this post has made you stabby. Surely you can see how this MC is not *doing it* right. Everyone knows that there are 3 sides to a story -- my side, your side, and the reality. This MC doesn't seem to have even bothered to try to *hear* ivy or to try to understand what *her* perspective is. He's just jumped right in to (imo) blaming her. This therapist is pretty much re-victimizing ivy with his verbose emails.

So ivy. Have you spoken to your WH about not seeing this guy as his IC anymore?

@Stillstings-- it seems that this post has made you stabby. Surely you can see how this MC is not *doing it* right.

I've already said how this MC is being inappropriate and find their behavior to be wrong. I also have to say people LIE a lot whether because they are deceitful or because they're not ready for treatment. You think this therapy business is easy? It's not. We can only work with what is brought to the table. Many people lie or minimize. We are also very limited in what access we have in terms of intervention outside of harm to a child, elderly or disabled person.

People often fail in therapy because they don't provide us the information. Sorry if that sucks but it's the truth. If you want intervention, you've got to speak up and be honest. Don't lie or withhold. There are lots of laws in place too.

One word....IDJAT!!!

You think this therapy business is easy? It's not.

Based on my experiences with my stbx, there is no way in hell that I would ever want to be a therapist. And because of him, I would be the world's worst therapist.

We can only work with what is brought to the table. Many people lie or minimize.

You said that you are taught that people lie (medical doctors are taught this also). But there is also the 'bias' that if a person is paying you money and sitting in front of you that they really want to *get better*. But that is not always the truth and it is irresponsible for a therapist to jump on the WS' train and start brow-beating the BS about his/her behavior (as ivy's MC seems to be doing).

People often fail in therapy because they don't provide us the information. Sorry if that sucks but it's the truth. If you want intervention, you've got to speak up and be honest. Don't lie or withhold

Amen. My stbx *failed* at therapy because he was going to his sessions and telling his IC how distraught he was over the state of our marriage and that he was doing "everything that he could"....while withholding the information that he had resumed contact with his OW. I *get* what you are saying. But that is why I am upset about this MC. Ivy DID speak up and provide relevant information.....and this assjack MC completely dismissed her.

You seem to be upset because MC's are being bashed on. But this MC didn't bother do do his due diligence to attempt to reconcile any *differences* in the stories. This MC sucks. All MC's don't suck and it seems that there ARE those who know the proper way to deal with infidelity situations.....but this guy ain't one of them. And I think that we can all agree on that.

How does a counselor work with one partner and invest so much time and energy with regard to that one side of the issue (s) and then turn that off to be objective on behalf of the other partner so that both will benefit in a maximum way from therapy?

This. Our MC (that we only used a few times since WH has no follow-through) would not even take me as an IC patient. He referred me to one of his practice colleagues (who is great btw).

The level of unprofessionalism of this MC is unbefuckinglievable. Fire this jerk. Now. And if at all possible, get WH to see someone else for IC.

((((IvyIvy))))

Bionicgal: I read your response to this second email, and I do understand what you are saying about the victim perspective. I agree that this ultimately is not a view that if kept over the long haul will be helpful for the BS or the WS. However, early on, isn't it natural when having been so severely betrayed and deceived to perceive oneself as a victim? There is nothing about this feeling that should be criticized. Additionally, I even view the WS who goes outside of the marriage and has an affair because of an inability to communicate, poor or nonexistent coping skills, addiction, foo issues, etc., as a victim as well, (although I suspect that I too will be slammed for this statement). It seems that the counselor is stuck on that concept though that viewing oneself as a victim will keep them from making any progress, however I view it as a great starting point to see what one can do to change that stance, to turn oneself from that victim to someone who can be in a position of strength and less vulnerable to succumbing to that role, be it unwittingly again. This can be an opportunity to help the "victims" become empowered and regain control over their lives, and their marriage. That can be the motivation or the starting point for real work to begin. The counselor can embrace this…

I have no doubt that this counselor wants to see the marriage work and I often feel that counselors can be so concerned about being objective that they often take longer to help their clients get past an issue in an effort not to interject their own opinion and bias; this is a function of their training and the efforts of a conscientious therapist, although not necessarily the most effective. So, I do agree with Stillstings: the client/therapist relationship is clearly one that is difficult to navigate, and there is no therapist who will be effective with EVERY client. In this case, the argument about whether or not this person is good or not seem mute; it is the BS feelings about his/her competence that is the best predictor of future success, or in this case I suspect failure. Find someone new for the MC, and if your husband is happy and feels safe remaining there in IC, let him; He is making the effort to expire and grow. he may outgrow it and move on, or his perspective may change when he sees the new MC's style and Point of view.

[This message edited by Neverwudaguessed at 9:40 AM, February 23rd (Sunday)]