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I'll let you guys in on something. My C asked me to come up with a list of bullet points (above) or an outline of what I wanted to communicate during DOR. Mrs. yop kept encouraging me to start. Well every time I started to write, I would start a bullet point and out would flow my rage. I'm sure many of you saw this writing in my earlier threads. The bullet points came out as a script. Over the course of a few days I would leave and come back to it. Each time my anger would come out. I couldn't do it in a peaceful manner. Mrs. yop actually wrote that outline above out of my "script". She removed all the anger and broke down each paragraph into the bullet point because I couldn't separate what I was trying to say from my anger.

Yes, this is going to be a problem for me. I need to get my shit under control for this. The thing is that I'm normally a very calm, cool, collected person. Especially under fire or in stressful situations. I can think on my feet. I start to write or talk about this shit and I start to lose my fucking mind with anger. Part of my job is to get up in front of hostile customers, converse with them, really listen to what they have to say and decipher what their needs are, come up with a solution, give a demo, or even train customers, all while often times while getting yelled at. I'm an analyst/developer/mediator. I've been in some really hairy situations in my professional career and every single time I'm as cool as ice. I'm extremely effective at what I do. I have a job title of analyst because they can't think of one for what I do. Point is, I need to transfer that to what I need to do here and I'm having trouble doing so. I'll get it eventually but I'm going to need to practice the hell out of this to keep myself controlled. If I show rage or anger right out of the gate, my mother's going to shut it down right away and I won't get far. I need to keep calm and as Merlin says, be firm and vigilant

Thanks Merlin. Thanks for your continued support. I agree that there are so many questions regarding her NPD (or how she is, whatever you want to call it) and how that will play a factor in this meeting. There are so many different outcomes that could happen and I need to be prepared for all of them. Guess that's why I have this "preparation" thread going here. Will she be able to meet those my terms in the long term? Funny my C asked the same question last night. We both agree that the chances are slim for her doing so. If she really listens, or pretends to listen, she might be able to keep it up for a time, but something will probably happen at some point to break those boundaries. As Skan says, it will be time to go when that heppens.

Thanks ReunitePangea. Thanks for sharing your confrontation experience. Much appreciated!! If she only had email or a computer to use. She can barely operate her cell phone. And thank god she doesn't have access to the internet!!! Her ability to see my stuff here is zero. If I can keep calm and let her know about my health issues and discuss how they are related to her as a start, I think I will at least get out much of what I need to get out. I would love a debate/Q&A. I don't think I will get one as once it she perceives that she is getting attacked she will start to pull the old "you don't love me bullshit." Man would I love a debate though. If I get a whiff of a debate I could go into my professional mode and pull out my SI under grad studies. I would love to tell her about all the "research" and reading on affairs and show her how every WW power play that she pulled was so wrong and what I saw each one do to my father. I would love to tell her about my "support group" and what I have learned and that a lot of positive has come from our story because I have shared it with all of you. I would love to back that up with the SI "good" examples that I have. That would be my best case scenario here. However, I know that's not realistic and I'm going to get the "That never happened" debate. Eh...fine. Not looking for that type of debate in which case I forge ahead with what I need to get out.

Thanks again FrmrBH80124. I can certainly use that strength as I don't feel all that strong with this most of the time. Wasn't harsh at all. It's just reality isn't it? That suicide play really is my greatest fear of this entire thing. Mrs. yop and one of my best friends keep telling me "It's not your fault" if she does. Mrs. yop keeps reminding me that all I'm doing is holding up a mirror for her to look at. If she kills herself for looking in the mirror, again she did it to herself. But I really don't want her to die but I do have to be prepared for that consequence. Pretty hefty fee to pay though if it goes that route. Trying to stay the course though.

Thanks cocoabean. I can see by your member number you have been at this for a very long time yourself. Thank you for sharing that. It means a lot to me. The abuse that my mother suffered from my grandmother is an unknown factor in this. I know my mother has mentioned it a few times throughout the years so I know it happened, but she has never really divulged any details on it. She won't ever talk about it. I only remember my grandmother as senile. She was diagnosed with Huntington's towards the last few years of her life and she had the behavior of a five year old. If I end up not being able to get out what I need to get out...I plan on having that "script" written and leaving it with her. That will have to suffice. Mostly I will have peace of mind going to my grave that at least someone, anyone stood up to her. No one ever really has. My father got out, it cost my brother his life, so now it falls to me.

Hi YOP, I think the idea of having a prepared letter is a good one. I actually sent a letter to my parents and all of my sibs after a particularly difficult phone confrontation. It felt good to get my say without the interruptions and insistence that what they did was not wrong.

I think your mother is probably a lot like mine, in that she has an extreme case of tunnel vision and can only see things that affect her. The blinders are on, and she refuses to see anything other than her own well being. She really believes she has been innocent of any wrongdoing because she has convinced herself of that for so many years. And for me to say otherwise means that I am the bad person, the one who supposedly derives joy from making her feel bad. And she has an excuse for everything. Excuses instead of apologies.

I also got very sidetracked when my IC told me that she is almost 100% certain that my mother was abused in childhood by someone. I grieved and cried for many weeks, thinking of my poor mother suffering as a child. Then I realized that although my parents abused me in the most heinous ways, I have not abused my own children. I absorbed all that pain and came through without passing it on, so to speak. So it must become irrelevant in your mind whatever was done to your mother. It is NOT an excuse for what she did. There is no excuse.

Best wishes to you, I will keep you in my prayers.

E.

ive been really busy the last few days so i havent had time to respond to this thread, however i HAVE been reading it.

i think a prepared outline is the best. that way you dont get sucked into some point at the exclusion of the others. it will help keep you focused.

i would also recommend considering if you want her to respond point by point or "shut up and listen" as you go through them all. both approached have points in favor (you get it all out) and against them (she forgets some points in the mass of details you throw at her). maybe bring two copies and give her one so she can look at it to help her respond...

i wish and hope that this goes well for you. remember, you arent responsible in any way for what she did or what she does. all you are responsible for is what you do. you are well within your rights for communicating your thoughts with her.

I am a child of an entire narcissistic family. I won't even try to go into the abuse I suffered as the family scapegoat.

I confronted each and every one of my living abusers. My father is dead now, but I confronted him before he died. As with all narcissists, he would never take any responsibility for anything he did to me.

My advice is to not expect a lot. Don't try to make them see you as human. They never will.

Tell them flat out what they did. NO EMOTION (they always use your emotions against you). Don't try to point out how much it hurt you. Point out how bad it made them look (the only way to reach a narcissist). Tell them your conditions for future contact (talk to you with respect, stop insulting you with lies about how wonderful they are, etc). Most of all, show them that you have the upper hand. Hang up and/or leave. This is far more powerful than you could ever imagine.

I wish you the best. Narcissism is a sickness that is beyond what normal people like you or I can ever comprehend. I'm glad I don't understand it, but 40 years of dealing with it has taught me a thing or two.

Any ideas on confrontation? Any experiences that people are willing to share?

I have spent my entire life with personality disordered individuals (father, nephew, stbx, and likely mother, though she was never diagnosed---and that's MY FOO; stbx's family is far more saturated with NPD).

Confrontation is futile. There is nothing to be gained from it.

Seriously, don't bother.

For yourself, define your boundaries. Determine what you will do if they are crossed.

Confronting and sharing your boundaries invites the NPD to gaslight, manipulate, and push the envelope. A declaration a la "victim impact statement" will provide satisfaction and fodder for future abuse.

Quietly determining, for yourself, what you will and will not tolerate is more peaceful and effective, IMO.

Thanks Edith. This...

I also got very sidetracked when my IC told me that she is almost 100% certain that my mother was abused in childhood by someone. I grieved and cried for many weeks, thinking of my poor mother suffering as a child. Then I realized that although my parents abused me in the most heinous ways, I have not abused my own children. I absorbed all that pain and came through without passing it on, so to speak. So it must become irrelevant in your mind whatever was done to your mother. It is NOT an excuse for what she did. There is no excuse.

I have been giving this some thought the last few days and I have to admit, I'm struggling with this some. I have to admit that it takes a bit of the anger out of my sails. Then I start to feel confused about it all. I know there was abuse there, not sure exactly what. But your right. Whenever I look at my own kids I think to myself, how could she do that to us? Ultimately I would like to get to the bottom of this and maybe have a conversation with her about what happened to her...but that's secondary and who knows how that would go.

Thanks william. You are making me think about taking somewhat of a "shut up and listen" bully approach if it comes to that. I am 3 times the size of her after all and I know she can be a chicken shit if I threatened her that she had to stay and listen to me. If she does do something stupid afterwards...well one of the traits that a child of someone with NPD, but doesn't have NPD themselves, is that they learn to internalize and blame everything on themselves. So of course that's what I would do if she does kill herself. I'm going to need to borrow some of that strength I know you have for this Goddamn confrontation. I will be thinking of you imagining giving that guy the boot off the train and how you felt afterwards for having control of the situation. I'm going to need that control so I don't lose my shit.

Wow Furious1. Confronted all of them? I'm having a hard enough time with one of them let alone multiple. Just the thought blows my mind. I'm not really expecting much. And you're right. She doesn't deserve to see how hurt I am. I really do want to be ice cold during this. Not sure if I'm going to be able to keep the hurt and rage in check. Hopefully I should with some practice. And I sooo agree about how it makes her look. One of the things I have been contemplating for the last few days is to also let her know that a lot of positive has come out of the destruction of our family and her affairs. How I've been in a "support group" helping others and using her actions as what not to do in life. That I've been conversing with people in the UK, Italy, Australia, and all over the US using her as an example of what not to do. To do the opposite of what she has done to help their partners heal. That people have told me that I should write a book based on my story and the effects of an affair on the family as a whole using her as the primary example. Hmmmm.... Is that a little below the belt? All true btw.

Thanks solus sto. How are you not screaming? I get so fu@#$%^ mad at her and she's just one. I'm hoping by letting it rip that I can finally move past my rage. I think if this was just about me, I might be able to quietly determine what I will and will not tolerate as a more peaceful and effective solution. Part of my problem is that I would regret going to my grave without having had a confrontation not just for me, but for my father and brother as well. As futile as it may be, someone has to hold her accountable for her actions. Kinda like that victim statement read to a murderer. Always falls on deaf ears but the victims family feels it's something they have to do for their loved one.

The fact that I even have to do any of this just blows. I'm tired.

YOP I applaud the way you are approaching this. I get the rage stems from deep emotion. You have mentioned your mothers attempted suicide. I sense this is a worry for you.

Does your mother have friends in her home state. Is she seeing a health care professional? Could you, in effect be proactive in setting up a support network for her after your DOR?

I worry she may attempt her life and leave you with more issues than What you started with.

Sending you strength.

Thanks Sadmumma. I'm going to need it.

Going to drop the bomb tonight and let her know that I need to meet in a few weeks at her place to discuss some "health issues" I've had as well as letting her know that I have some questions about our family history. True and true. But there's a lot more than that coming her way.

Wheels have been set in motion for DOR. Had mini confrontation with her last night and let her know that, in so many words, any future visits to our house will be on hold until we meet. Told her that I needed to discuss my "health issues" and needed to know some things about our family history. That I wanted to discuss our family history in length. She was visiting for her BDay/Easter and told her I refused to have these conversations in my house with the kids near by. Now she knows something is up for sure. She is leaving this morning to head home so I will not speak to her again until setting up an official date.

Told her I would call her later this week to discuss the date for our meeting at her place. I'll call her later in the week and let her know that my C suggested that she have someone there for her and that she should schedule an appt for herself for the following day. I'm sure that will get even more of her attention. My C is insisting that my W is with me and that I have a follow up visit with her the next day as well.

I'll see how it goes. There's a chance it might not happen If she tries to shut it down I will let her know that NC will happen with me and my children.

Biggest concern for me is still her possible suicide attempt afterwards. She always does like to get the last word in.

I am prepared to go NC with her for good starting now if I need to.

im wishing you all the best in the confrontation.

its going to be rough, im sure. if its at her house do you have somewhere else you can stay afterwards?

thanks william. yes. plan is to stay in a hotel the night before. I may try and see my father who is very ill as well while I'm there. I don't plan on letting him know that I just stood up for him, myself, and our family though. Not sure how he would react.

Every time I go to my town of origin I get a hotel room as my safe haven. Get away from all the crazies IFYKM? Although, my wife wants us to leave town right after the meeting, drive out the day before. I hate to cut and run but going NC right afterwards and getting out of there may be in everyone's best interest.

Hi YOP,

So glad that your plan is set in motion now. Good to have the target in sight and start planning.

Seems like a very good plan to have your wife there for support and to get the heck out of Dodge when it's over. Whatever the fallout, this is NOT YOUR FAULT. Do not let the NPD twist this until all the guilt is squarely on your shoulders. She has made her choices in life. She will continue to make her choices and now she will need to deal with the consequences of those choices and how they will affect any future relationship with you or her grandkids.

I don't think anyone can accurately predict how this will all go down, but I think you are preparing yourself well for all possible scenarios. That will be to your benefit.

I wish you the very best on your quest for peace and healing. So impressed and inspired by how far you have come in the months since you've been "here" and all the great support you offer to others.

Hi YOP,

Every time I go to my town of origin I get a hotel room as my safe haven.

I always do this too! I fly in, rent a car, check in at the hotel and make sure no one ever parks behind me in the driveway! It is a shame that it is necessary, but a plan B is always helpful. Praying for you and your family.

E.

((((YOP)))

We will all be thinking of you as the day comes closer! It makes even me nervous to contemplate, I hope you aren't too stressed out. You seem very focused and calm, kudos to you friend. And the visit seems to have been pretty smooth this past weekend.

YOP ... Great to read the plan is really moving now.

I'd be inclined to agree with your C re staying the extra night and having an extra visit the next day.

1) to show her that you care about her well being and

2) in case you have to repeat yourself.

There's a strong theme that emerges from just about everyone's posts here: the futility of expecting anything...

I think you're getting the idea, and see this exercise as more of a 'victim impact statement'.

iow, "It's for you." & that's fine...but keep to that - keep it uppermost in your thoughts.

Normally, "NC = No New Hurts" is a valid, and helpful thing to finally "get"...(ie NC your abuser),

but you are choosing this for you - you only.

With that in mind, you have to let go of the outcome.

You're not responsible for her choices, her reactions.

Let. That. Go.

I sincerely hope this helps brother, and you can go into this with peace of mind and "release".

I have read the latest batch of comments and thanks again everyone for hanging in there with me. It really means a lot. You have no idea.

4/23/14 - 2 hour phone conversation with my father and flood gates start to open with ALL of it. More conversations to come. This is what I now know about my FOO on my mother's side:

Great Grandfather (my mother's grandfather) - inwardly violent. possible unconfirmed affairs. suicide by train. no diagnosis

Grandmother (my mother's mother) - outwardly violent. confirmed multiple affairs. officially diagnosed with Huntington's Disease in her early 70s. also narcissistic tendencies. NPD?

Grandmother's brother (my mother's uncle) - outwardly violent. possible affairs. officially diagnosed with Huntington's Disease in his early 40s. spent last few years of life in a straight jacket.

Uncle (mother's brother) - inwardly violent. suicide by hanging. no diagnosis

Mother - inwardly violent/some outwardly violent. 1 LTA. Most likely other unconfirmed affairs/ONSs. 2 suicide attempts. possibly diagnosed with Huntington's Disease with narcissistic tendencies. Was seeing a Huntington's/Narcissist specialist. NPD? bipolar mostly ruled out. "When she loses her power she gets violent."

Brother - inwardly violent. suicide by shotgun. no diagnosis.

Lots and lots of rugsweeping over the years. No more rugsweeping!!! I'm blowing the lid of this mother fucker. Further conversations with cousins on mother's side to come as well.

WTF am I dealing with here? Bigger question, what are my unknowing children dealing with here?

That was a fun conversation I just had. Spoke with my mother. DOR officially set for 5/25 at 10:30am. She agreed to have someone present for her for afterwards. She's going to ask my xltgf that she remained friends with. She agreed to set up an IC session for the following day. But she really didn't want to do either of those things so who knows if she will or not. I had to end up telling her the meeting was not only about my "health issues", but it was also about my brother, father, and her affair(s). We'll see how this thing shakes out. Now my prep really has to kick into gear.

Fully ready to break away and go NC if I have to.

I will be keeping you present in my mind tomorrow, hoping for the best outcome for you and you alone.

Thanks Skan. Not quite there yet though. One month to go. Memorial Day weekend 5/25 will be the big day for me.