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GAK! (cue singing) If I only had a brain!

Had 1st confrontation with the narcissist an hour ago. I'm calming down. I swear to God she just tried to pull every narcissist play from their play book. I stood my ground and instead of taking the threats I shoved them back in her face and called her on her own bullshit. Once she realized I didn't buy into her pity party, then her angry threats, she then said maybe we should part ways for good. I agreed and called her on it saying that I'm prepared to walk away forever and never let her talk to her grandchildren again if we don't meet in a month. As of now, DOR still on.

She has one card left to play. Committing suicide would be her last fuck you to me. A very real play that could happen. She fed me a bunch of shit about being in the psyche ward today but not sure if I believe her bullshit.

We'll see...

I think I'm going to

Good job YOP. Unfortunately, it will be the first of many times that you will have to stand your ground with her. I'm not sure it ever gets easier, but you will gets stronger as you get more practice with it.

(((hugs)))

You are very brave and courageous. I wish you all the best. Hang in there.

wishing you strength!

So sorry YOP...You certainly are standing strong! Your children are being brought up in a loving and sane home, I truly believe they will be just fine. And from my experience, NC is not a bad thing! You are quite generous in giving her a chance. Praying for you.

E.

Thanks everyone. Really means a lot. Was a log night and I'm expecting the worst today but keeping up beat with lots of kids activities today. We'll see what happens.

Feels good at the moment having stood up to her and recognizing every NPD play she was throwing at me. SI, my SI peeps, and all the research I have done the past few months really had me prepared and thinking on my feet. This time last year that conversation would have went very differently

THANK YOU ALL!!!

yop

I'm glad you have a lot of support YOP. Not much more I can say that others haven't already said to you. I just wanted to give you ((HUGS)) YOP. I hope all turns out well for you!

Update. I've been able to maintain NC with the narcissist through the week. She has not tried to call me again and I have not received the suicide call. So far so good.

However, something I have been stewing about since my IC appt on Fri. I told my C about the confrontation call that I had last weekend. My C wasn't fully convinced, but is now fully convinced that she is a narcissist based on the details I gave her. wtf?

Do to the clock now ticking on the suicide front watch as my mother has attempted twice before, for a couple of minutes during my session she advised me against having DOR. Said that if she does commit suicide afterwards I will only add more guilt to the immense pile that I already have and that we haven't had a chance to get to yet in IC.

I had to remind her that this is a catch 22 situation for me in that, now that I am perfectly willing to go NC with her for the rest of my life, she could attempt suicide because of that too. I'm really f'd either way. She said I have a point. I also noted that I would have regret going to my grave for someone not having stood up to her for what she did to our family. After the confrontation I had last weekend, I feel more strongly about it than ever.

I feel empowered at this point. For the first time ever I feel like I'm the one with all the cards (except her suicide one). Hopefully her being in love with herself out weighs her need to get the last word in.

Damn this shit's complicated.

As of right now DOR is still on for Sun 5/25. I better start my prep work for all possible outcomes.

Damn this shit's complicated.

ETA - And thanks BreatheAgain10. Much appreciated.

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 8:30 AM, May 4th (Sunday)]

yop))) brother, I'll just keep saying this again and again till you hear me

(yes, with a supportive smile & a firm side-hug)

Let go of the outcome.

(should be the main focus of your 'outcome prep')

I keep hearing ya jjct. Really I do! And I do appreciate it! You have no idea. Just get out what I need to get out and move on. Thanks jjct.

I better start my prep work for all possible outcomes.

The outcome is presumably you breaking the chain of the dysfunction of generations, and using a great deal of empathy in how you raise your children.

No words of wisdom, but a (((((hug)))))

You got this.

You are getting stronger on how you respond to her. The empowerment you feel is a very good thing, IMO. I'm so very sorry you find yourself in potentially a NPD no-win situation. However, I'm glad you are taking the action you deem necessary to move along your path of healing. You are courageous and strong. Keep healing!!!!

Just remember. You cannot control her choices over her life, start to finish. You don't have the power. She will do what she will do for reasons of her own. If you had the power to influence her in a more sane manner, you'd have done it already. But you don't have that power. So you really *do* have to let go of the outcome and just accept whatever choice SHE makes about HER life. You don't have to accept her choices about trying to continue to control YOUR life. (((manly hugs!

Thanks for the continued support everyone.

When I got home from work today guess what I came home to? A handwritten letter from the narcissist. 7 pages long. There's only 3 sentences that are not about her. The rest is all about her. I'll spare you all the details as there is nothing Earth shattering in it. Lots of how could you do this to me and pity party stuff. She's basically asking to move up the DOR date and come here for it.

It's starting to play out. As of right now my plans are to ride out the rest of this week and maybe contact her this weekend about moving up the date and having it with her therapist...if she will allow it. She wants to come here for it. I will not allow that.

And the saga continues.

Sorry for this long post!!

I wasn't deliberately saving this for mother's day, but this seems to be the hot topic of the moment in my house. So here's the letter that I received earlier in the week.

4-30-14

yop

You really scared me and I don't understand what I said or did to make you so angry?

If this has been going on for awhile, why did did you wait this long to say any thing

I'm truly sorry. I know this isn't enough, so come and scream at me. I will take it.

I've kept AP in my head, because I have no boyfriend or husband to talk to. I never thought I would end up with no one.

(Your Father) has always will be the love of my life, but it always hurts (underline hurts) to think about him. It took me more than 10 years to be able to cope with our divorce. He was not an easy person to live with. He was always such an alone man. Deep in his thoughts without including me. (I was very alone with him). He was always working + working + working!!! (his company) drove us apart.

Then in the late 80s I got very (2 underlines under very) sick with a kidney infection.

I couldn't eat anything for 9mo. because of the medicine they had put me on - Keflex (never take it) - It destroyed me inside. It killed too much.

I have colitus (once you have it - you have it for life). It used to be foods that triggered it, now it's stress.

Colitus is like an ulser of your colon.

Being I was so sick it pushed my depression up to the surface. BIG TIME!!!

I went to two doctors and they said it was P.M.S. -WRONG-

So, I was difficult to live with and he was, too.

All my friends kept trying to tell me gently that there has to be someone else at work. No one works that many hours.

(your father) used to talk about (his AP that he ended up marrying) and her problems! All these problems become his problems. I'll never (underline never) believe that he wasn't with (his AP) before we got divorced. I found them in their apartment.

I never thought in a million years that I (underline I) would have an affair.

I loved (your father) more than life, but at the end of the 80s he was there!

He wasn't with me physically or emotionally. He had moved into the spare bedroom. That should have been my "red flag" that things are really bad between us, but I still didn't see it. I was so stupid because I was still defending him to my friends.

I wasn't mentally ready to face a divorce anyway. That is when I decided to just go an live my own life. (your father) was certainly living his own life.

So when I met AP, I was at a the lowest part of my life. (your father) couldn't talk to me, he was gone from me mentally - he was just gone.

AP and I were going thru the same things, at the same time with his wife.

We met at a party and talked for hours about everything. I wasn't thinking about an affair. We were just having fun drinking and swimming with lots of friends. It was a happy time. (your father) was not fun at these parties he was so serious.

So I was so lonesome and someone was paying attention to me, that one thing led to another. We didn't set out to do this, but it happened.

He had kids and I had kids, we knew it was going to end.

I'm sorry but I fell in love with him. It wasn't to hurt you or anyone else, but it did. He died in 2004.

So, I have kept his memory in my head for a very long time because it was a good memory.

Since 2008 I have had few happy times here at XXXXX Park. It taken 5 years to adjust to this place.

I probably said something stupid to you about AP that I didn't mean. AP wanted me (your father) didn't.

I'm seeing my therapist today and I am off my job (with pay) because I am so upset with this situation. There has been too many things that have happened in too short of time.

(my company) is very concerned with me, that they are giving me time off to help me.

XXXXX Park has been cruel the way they told me I have to get out of my apartment. I gave them my 2013 tax (they bought this place in Dec 2013) form the other day. They had my 2012 because I hadn't had my taxes done until the end of March. I was over the $26,000 (I'm allowed to make) but my 2013 taxes show me I am under by $2500.

I don't know what you want me to do for this situation.

(her psychiatrist) told me another therapist would never tell you to do this. This isn't anyway to solve this.

If you want me to come to (yop's city) and we both go to your therapist I'll do it. I can stay in a motel so the kids don't know.

I really feel this is more than just something I said. I care about you.

I think by coming here is just going to rip us apart. You really want to be this cruel with me.

I have gone thru so much loss -

(your father)

(my closest friends who would let me F AP at their house)

My son

My sister

My parents

4 girlfriends - cancer

my home (underline home) and everything (underline everything) in it.

Can't I just have a little happiness in my head. I've never meant to hurt you.

So now I've lost all of you??

-Life SUCKS-

This was never done on purpose.

I don't know what else to do.

Please do not send me a mother's day card - (your father) did that on Valentines's Day and left 2 weeks later -Don't lie-

I'm off all next week, seeing my psychiatrist and my therapist before I can go back to work. At least (my company) loves me. How many businesses would do this for their employees.

So the ball is in your court - Not knowing for a month does a number on my head and colitus.

There is still so much you don't know about our marriage that I will never go into with you.

Love,

Mom or

maybe not.

Trust me, I get the content of this letter. This is just a very tiny window into what I'm dealing with. I know many have pushed me to cut her out of my life. I'm very much leaning that way at the moment. I discussed this letter as well as my possible response at nauseam on Fri. Here is my possible response that I have not yet sent to her.

Mother,

I was hoping to have a meeting with you regarding our family history and also to discuss certain boundaries that I need in place so that I can live a healthier mental and emotional life with you in it. With this latest letter that you have sent me, it is now becoming overwhelmingly apparent that this is not a possibility. You didn't listen to a single word that I said regarding having a meeting. All I was asking for was a meeting. Rather than immediately trying to empathize and listen to why your child who may be hurting, you called back and started to lash out. You took my suggestions of having support there for yourself as a threat. In your letter you continue to twist everything I said and made it all about you. Any conversation that I would attempt to have with you, I'm afraid would fall on deaf ears and be further twisted around so that once again everything would be all about you.

By your suggestions of meeting with my counselor, coming here, not wanting to get your therapist involved, or have a support group of your own is a very telling sign that you feel threatened. I'm not threatening you. You threatened me by saying "maybe we should go our separate ways and never speak again". I called you on it because unfortunately that is something I didn't want to do, but with the help of my counselor and support groups that has been something I have been preparing myself for.

You didn't listen when I said why my counselor suggested you have a support group in place for yourself if I'm insisting on having this meeting. You're right that my counselor advised against us having a meeting. She has been pressing me hard as to why I feel I must have this meeting. My counselor has wanted me to take a look at my life to see what it would be like without you in it. My support groups also have been pleading with me to not have this meeting and to just cut you out of my life permanently. My inner circle of friends and (my wife) have also been pleading with me to not have this meeting and cut you out of my life. That absolutely no good could come from this meeting. (my wife) is willing to support me with any decision I make. If you had listened to me, which I know is an impossibility for you because you will always be stuck on yourself, you would have heard the following reasons why I wanted to meet with you:

1. I wanted to discuss our family history.

2. I wanted to show you through my eyes what I saw as a child growing up in our house and the impact that it's now having on my health.

3. I wanted to establish some boundaries and consequences of having you in my life going forward so that I could mentally live a healthier emotional life with you in it.

I said those three things but you clearly didn't hear any of them. I also said that because I wanted to talk about our family history and how painful I know some of those things are for both of us that you should have someone close by to support you and to have a counseling session booked for yourself afterwards. You didn't hear any of that. Instead you chose to hear that as a threat of me coming to you to force you to do things that you don't want to do.

I did say that you discussing your affair partner was a trigger for me and brought an avalanche of emotions down on me when you talked about him this past Oct. I had buried it all for a very long time and then my coping mechanisms failed me. However, these emotions were not limited to your affairs. Your affair was merely an entry point into a lot of questions that I have had and is one of my triggers. I did lie to you as a 16 year old and say that I only read a page of your diary. Guess what? I read most of it while waiting to be picked up by a friend so that I could go and do one of the hardest things I've ever had to do in my life. Tell my father. Among the many things that I read in that diary was how you and your affair partner thought of you as such a great lover that you should teach (my brother) and I how to fuck. In your own words I read about (my aunt's) involvement and your various "friends" involvements. Very telling of many things on many levels. Many of the details of your affair are burned into my memory from your diary. However, once I figured out your why you had an affair, at least the only why that matters, I was able to connect the dots and figure out who you are. Things that I have seen my entire life and the letter you sent me is only more confirmation of those points and what I saw before I moved out. That letter is such a tiny window into who you are, but it's so telling.

This is why I would have liked to have talked to you about your mother. I know you have said in the past that she abandoned you and you felt abused by her. I didn't know her well enough as the only version I know is the ill person that I saw for the last 10 years of her life. I'm guessing she plays a huge part in the person that you are and I would like to have known more about your childhood with her. Honestly though, you are so full of lies I don't think I could ever believe anything you would tell me. It's pointless to talk to you about anything really. I know my grandfather's and aunt's role in shaping who you are very well. I at least had the chance to see their interactions with you. They shielded you and protected you from everything your entire life. As such you never developed the emotion of empathy.

Everything I have said above is because of your lack of this emotion. It's not your fault you don't have it. I don't blame you for a lot of things because you were brought up to not have this emotion. I even know that the reason you feel threatened is because you're afraid I'm going to expose you. Why? I already know the truth and don't feel a need to expose you. Sure, I'm not happy with how you have rewritten our family history with other family members and "friends" and I will forever tell the truth about it all when asked.

This truth about who you are is why everyone is begging me to not meet with you and cut you out of my life. Yet I still wanted to give you a chance. I see now that this is an impossibility and I'm going to heed the advice of everyone else in my life and say goodbye. This is not something that someone else talked me into doing and I choose to do this as it's time to start thinking about myself and more importantly my family. Your final act of sending cards to my kids as a manipulation tactic to get back at me has brought me to this finality. I cannot, and will not, continue your unhealthy emotional acts in their lives. My father, my brother, you and I did not survive as a family because of your behavior and lack of empathy. Everything was all about you all the time. It still is. I will no longer tolerate your behavior in this new life I have built for myself. I have empathy for my family and I will always put them first in an effort to protect them.

I'm very sorry to say that going forward I will have no further contact with you. That means any letters that you may send or phone calls that you may make will be ignored. They will never make it to their intended destinations. Period.

I know you may struggle to understand the meaning of what I have said in this letter and why I have said it. I suggest that you bring it to your psychiatrist and your psychologist in an effort to help you better understand.

yop

After further discussions with my C, it has become apparent that she had backed me nito a corner. By not taking action, that's an action and she could commit suicide. By taking action, could have the same result. So what's best for me?

I know jjct...just let go of the outcome. Just let it all go.

If I do let go, not sure how I will feel in the end. The idea of having her therapist as the moderator is a good one, but I don't think she'll even go for it. I'm pretty sure she tells nothing but lies to her therapist, rewrites out family history, and blame shifts everywhere. I wouldn't expect anything other than that from her. And I'm talking way more than just her A(s). I don't want to be stuck. I want to keep moving forward. No Happy Mother's Day on this side so I won't call her tonight. Will leave it for tomorrow night and try and set up a meeting with her therapist. We'll see.

Sorry for the long post!!

yop

I hope you and your W and your kids had a great Mother's Day! Regardless of what happens with your own mom, you are on a path to strength, peace, and healing.

I hope that others have better words of wisdom than I do. Just know we all care and support you!!!!

DOR date set for Wed 10am with her therapist. I leave Tue morning. Hotel Booked. Boundaries and Consequences. Check. And yes jjct, I have let go of the outcome. I'm feeling pretty good going into this. If we never speak again, so be it. I tried. If she commits suicide, well, it's one of her hoovering techniques. There is no winning here. It's about standing up for my family and myself. Getting past it. Then moving on. Most importantly, getting myself peace.

Boundaires:

* I will not tolerate the mention of your affair partner.

* I will not tolerate any mention of my father.

Consequences of violating either of these boundaries will result in the immediate termination of our relationship.

Boundaries:

* I will not tolerate any more letters or phone calls to my father.

* I will not tolerate any more shifting of blame for your actions on to others.

* I will not tolerate any complaints about the divorce.

* I will not tolerate you disciplining my kids.

* I will not tolerate any snide comments about me, my health, my family.

* I will not tolerate you dictating the terms of your visits.

* I will not tolerate threats of suicide or suicide attempts.

* You will treat me, my family, my home with respect.

Consequences of violating any of these boundaries will result in immediate termination of the visit. I will show you the door regardless of the time of day or the event.

yop