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She says, they've only talked about race stuff and she mentioned that they needed to talk.

Do you mean she has already told this OM that they needed to talk? If so, when did she tell him that. That sort of sounds like, she intends to continue talking with him. With a WS, you have to listen to what they never say.

She doesn't get it. She does not understand what an affair does to the BS. And until she does understand that, she will continue to say things like you are overreacting because of the last affair.

Somehow you or a book or a therapists needs to explain to her how affairs start. Flirting is usually how all affairs start.

And then you get to that kiss. Well, how does she expect you to react.

She says you are overreacting. No, not at all. She was starting another physical affair. She cannot sugar coat it in any way, she was well on her way to having another affair. In reality, she already was in an affair...but for the sake of argument with her. I would keep it to, you were about to have another affair, plain and simple.

Can't Trust her

So what was the result of therapy??? Are you going to let it continue????

Therapy went better than expected. She was polite to the therapist and talked more than I thought.

She also talked to the guy last night and they are stopping communication.

The therapist asked us to try to work on reestablishing trust. To that end, she agreed to give me access to her phone anytime and promised not to delete texts. We'll see how that goes.

We've both been very angry. today, we decided to not talk about relationship stuff for the next few days

Imagine......she had to have a therapist tell her that what she was doing was incompatible with continued marital status. Whatever, at least it appears to be working. If she did, in fact, have the "no contact" communication.

I thought of something today. I'm not a runner, at least since high school days long ago. In fact, I'm looking for one of those 0.0 stickers for my car instead of a 26.2 sticker. But, I know from friends who do run, many events require registry of entrants. Many have websites listing entrants. Something about getting qualified for events such as Boston Marathon. If you want credit or recognition, you have to use your real name.

Anyway, should your wife enter events, and you know OM's name, you may want to check the event's website and look for entrants.

Trust, but verify.

This doesn't apply to local fun runs and the like. But it does apply to serious events.

Excellent point about the race registrations. He races all over the country and she is talking about doing a triathlon in the fall. I'll check it out.

You need to find a way to verify that no texts are deleted.

Reestablishing trust is all about the WS keeping their word. And for the BS, they have to have proof. Not just words at this point.

My late partner always said "two heads are better than one, even if one is a pumpkin". Just call me pumpkin head, but the SI Collective is a powerful organism when united to solve a problem. They cannot resist. (Star Trek Gen 2 Borg reference -- yeah, I'm a closeted geek). You are being assimilated and soon will be instructing others who follow.

I've been using a spystick on her phone, but it doesn't seem to show me the deleted texts anymore. I wonder if it's because she hasn't updated her phone in some time and I foolishly updated the spystick.

I've been using a voice recorder that she doesn't know about. In fact I had it in the room when she spoke to him. I told her to go someplace else, but she wouldn't. I will say the conversation made it seem like there isn't anything more than what I know. Of course, she was a total bitch ripping on me often and telling him some pretty private stuff. I even asked her this morning if she told him one thing in particular. She said no. On the recorder she told him all about, even embelished a bit.

Maybe she's not a cheater, but I'm really starting to not like this woman.

Oh, so I have to vent about last nights "discussion." She now considers all the lies "white lies." She also says she didn't want to tell me anything because I would get upset. Hell, she's also started to rationalize the birthday presents. Next, she'll explain why wearing those panties was a good idea.

Yea, really not liking this woman right now.

Promise I'll stop in a moment. She now considers this my issue because of my anger. She's only working on things because we are a couple.

Oh, and everything I say is wrong. She was talking about doing a triathlon in the Fall. I asked her if she would like us to do it together. I don't run and have no interest, but would do it. She later told me I was smothering her with that.

She deserves to be smothered and if you do not go to it you are crazy. You cannot let her blame shift to you. And you need to make it clear that if this starts up again it's over.

What did she say when they agreed to no contact. Now did she put it

I am not usually so cynical, but every word your wife is saying, screams she is still having an affair.

The everything you do is wrong. White lies only, and smothering comments.

Ask her some pointed common sense questions. If you were having an affair with some woman, would she be mad?

Have her answer that honestly, if she says "no, I wouldn't mind it if you liked other women or went out with them." That means most likely she is still in an affair.

The NC phone call could have just been made up where the OM knows she doesn't mean it, or there is a different OM.

Your wife's words are troubling to say the least.

Maybe you should get to know this OM better, have the PI do a background check on him. You just never know.

Keep the surveillance secret. Even if that means biting your tongue when she tells another lie. If you don't she'll go underground with burner phone, work email on her work gf's computer, or any other devious means she can devise.

I'm curious. I thought she went NC per telephone call to him. It sure doesn't sound like it.

I need to backtrack a little bit about the red panties and the birthday. If this guy lives in Canada, when did she see him on his birthday to wear the panties for him?

Now that things seem more tense or at odds, can you talk to one of the woman on that ski trip and ask her some questions? Where was this ski trip?

Sure sounds like there is a different OM.

Not necessarily. "Wear red panties for me and send me a pic". "OK"

type,type, type, attach, send. Voila, its done. Sexting due to distance. Very plausible. And what a nice birthday present

Not necessarily. "Wear red panties for me and send me a pic". "OK"

Or Skype, Oovoo, Facetime, or some other video chat.

Your gut is talking. So listen.

((HUGS))

How can you R with a person that presents one front to your face and then another when you're not around?

You said MC went better than expected but then she turns around and lies about what she said to OM, even ripping into you.

All her actions until now still scream she doesn't get it and probably never will. Just because communication with OM "stops" doesn't mean everything is over.

It didn't appear to be a "Sorry we can't talk because I love my husband and I'm truly sorry for what I've done now it's over"

More like

"I really don't want to but he's making me do it, you know what he's like *rolling her eyes*, I'm sorry I'm doing this to you *intoned but not stated*"

There is a difference between "Not getting" and not giving a toss because she willfully doesn't care.

Can't Trust Her

This woman disrespects you so much that she has begun an affair and brought this man into your home. You know more than she thinks you know because old PI. You should do the following if I were you

(1) I would call this guy myself and tell him you are following up your wife's phone call to reinforce that you expect no more contact with her . I would also reinforce and tell him that you have told your wife you are divorcing her if she has any more contact with him. Since she already blamed it on you just piss her off and make sure he understands it on your terms.

(2) I would consider confronting her with all the PI evidence including the kiss. I wouldn't worry about her going further underground. In present state you'll have to hire PI again in future if you don't stop this and a good. PI will be able to outsmart her. It will also put a little cold water on her party knowing that eveni if she did go out of town she will have to assume you might hire PI there. If you convince her she is not going to get away with it she will either stop or D.

You cannot worry about how mad or accusatory she is of you. I personally would have been in jail had she brought this guy into my house under the same circumstances.

(3) you need to CONFRONT her in MC big time where she can't run and will get pressed for answers by therapist.

She needs to be pressured and to believe SHE will not live peacefully with you behaving like this.

Please stop being Mr Niceguy

Look your wife is mad at you for making her breakup with her boyfriend, She is having an affair and still is despite her sending no contact, You should let her know that she can date anyone she wants, just not as your wife. Let her know that she is free to leave, if she is unwilling to commit to the marriage then you need to file, you can always stop it later if she comes around, right now she has no respect for you, she is blaming you for the tension, kick her off the fence, you have got to be willing to end the marriage in order to save it.