SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

In reality, your wife has no business being mad at you. Like others have said, she is mad at you for catching her.

Was the fact brought up in MC that this is your wife's second affair that you know of in 13 years.

She probably doesn't like to be reminded of that either, but once again, she has no business being mad at you.

Actually, she brought up the first affair. She thinks it's important because "I'm overreacting as a result of the first affair."

As for the other comments. Thank you. I'm mad at her and she's being pretty shitty, but I'm going to continue as is. I'll put the recorder in her car as much as I can and I'll check her phone log as well as her texts. I don't think she's savvy enough to delete her phone log at the moment.

Actually, I'm fine with this dragging out. I'm in a much calmer place and she's the one that seems to be suffering. I've heard her crying a couple of times on the recorder. Yea, she's probably not crying for me.

I keep asking myself what I'll do if she does maintain contact. I'm not sure. Perhaps call her out in front of the therapist.

CanI help me out here, did you see a lawyer already or not?

If not please do so immediately.

She does not have any remorse and is quite frankly pissed off because she isn't being allowed to continue to engage in her A.

This is her second merry go round that you know of. I know you are scared, and sad, and probably even a little disappointed in yourself.

Nothing changes if you change nothing however.

YOU need to take her to task at the next MC meeting. Give her your list of requirements for R, and hand her some D papers. Let her know you are done playing mr nice guy, and have decided to pull out the big guns, and start demanding the respect you deserve.

NO ONE here that saved their M with a spouse that was caught did it by playing nice. We all had to at one point or another bite the bullet and get seriously ready to end the M. The longer you wait the less likely she will be willing to snap out of the fog, and do the work.

See a lawyer.

Get STD tested (PLEASE).

Start getting your financial ducks in a row.

You deserve better, this is how you become strong enough to demand it.

(((and strength)))

I've heard her crying a couple of times on the recorder.

Alone or talking on the phone.

Crying alone, that is hard to know why. A guess is she is crying because she doesn't know what to do. Usually people do not cry when they have made up their minds to something. Crying could very well be just confusion.

I would confront her in front of the MC, that way it can't end up being he said she said stuff later on.

Actually, she brought up the first affair. She thinks it's important because "I'm overreacting as a result of the first affair."

Did the MC have any comments about this. I would think because of the first affair you are not overreacting. A second affair is a hell of a lot more than just a mistake, just bad judgement to be learned from.

So you think you have heard her crying on recorder, not over hurting you, but over other man( your words), and you THINK you might want to confront her if you catch her again. And you're not sure of that, meaning you might just let it go???

Not sure if you really want to solve your problem and get some commitment from your wife or if at this point you just want to know she is cheating on you and pining for her AP.

I guess some of us just can't imagine being in your position after what we have just read you went through, and thinking that you have the upper hand.

I hope we don't hear you have caught her again but given the fact she is crying about him I'd bet you will be back with more trouble for yourself. Hope I am wrong

So I have learned to take some comments and let the others slid by.

Yes, I got myself std tested a few weeks back and I'm confident there has only been that kiss at the airport between then and now. All clear.

I have not seen a lawyer and will not unless we are head that direction.

I will not tell her about the voice recorder with my current evidence.

This is also a bit of a personal journal, so I'm going to write what I'm thinking and find as it happens. Please feel free to respond or not.

I checked her text and call log. It does not appear that they had contact. I listened to yesterday's recording's last night. It was a lot of listening to country music and sitting in the car saying nothing with the car apparently idling. He's into country. She isn't.

Oh, one bit that I'm trying not to make too much of. A week or so ago, I stumbling across John Legend's song All of Me. I texted her that she should listen to it as it's a really powerful song (it is). She listened to it but not much came of it. Anyway, as she was switching stations, the song came on. I listened willing her to sit and hear the whole thing. She didn't. She turned off the car and headed in. Hopefully that doesn't mean what I think it means.

Last night, we were civil and didn't talk about anything big as we agreed. I did signal that I was not interested in sex. We are both sexual people and have sex often for an old married couple, but I'm not interested. Monday night when things calmed down, I told her that I didn't want to have sex, but I would like to kiss her. She refused saying emotions were too high. Fair enough, but then she told him Wed when they had their NC conversation that I was trying to have sex with her. It was almost in a joking way. Really hurt. Again, she might not be a cheater, but she's a liar and a pretty shitty person right now.

I have not seen a lawyer and will not unless we are head that direction.

As a veteran here, I would encourage you to rethink this. Many many people here make their decisions on beliefs of what could or what they believe will happen. Often what they believe, or assume will happen is very wrong. Getting the knowledge of your rights, her responsibilities, and how things would happen should you need to make some hard decisions is very helpful in moving forward.

She certainly sounds very foggy still.

I would look for that second phone too.

No argument that she's still in a fog. I will think about the lawyer. How about that?

And I will continue to monitor and I'll look for a second phone. I have stopped keeping cash around. I used to keep plenty of cash in a drawer for her. She doesn't use atm's.

I listened to yesterday's recording's last night. It was a lot of listening to country music and sitting in the car saying nothing with the car apparently idling. He's into country. She isn't.

That was one of the very first indications I knew my wife was having an A. All of a sudden interest in CW.

That is one of the first indicators of an affair, sudden and odd change in personal likes and dislikes.

Her not wanting to kiss you, with her excuse of her emotions are too high.

That would be worrisome. Emotions, what kind of emotions? That would have been my first and most immediate question. I would not have let that slide.

It is really hard to say, but it sure sounds like she is in an active affair, talking with this OM.

OR, she could be in a huge withdrawal period. That usually shows itself as depressed, aloof and withdrawn attitudes.

I would consider talking to a lawyer since you have kids. She could snap and leave. She is certainly acting funny. And I would be nervous in a way that she sits in her car listening to C&W which is what the OM likes. To most that would sound odd or stupid of me to write that, but that is just a huge sign.

Fair enough, but then she told him Wed when they had their NC conversation that I was trying to have sex with her. It was almost in a joking way. Really hurt. Again, she might not be a cheater, but she's a liar and a pretty shitty person right now.

CanITrustHer, I’m in Texas. My D is finalizing today. We are in a no-fault state. There is a mandatory 60 day waiting period from the time she is “served” the D papers. That’s 60-days for her to get her head out of her ass and start clearing her fog and start taking you seriously. Even after the waiting period expires, and assuming you are filing uncontested, your lawyer will still need to schedule a prove-up at the court to finalize the divorce. That means you can give her more time if you think it is necessary, but at this point your finger is on a hair trigger for the D. You can pull it the moment you know that D is the only answer. But if it will turn into a contested D, then you should be consulting with an L right now to know how to protect your assets and your interests. You need to know what is considered communal property. You need to take steps to protect your credit record. More importantly, either contested or uncontested, YOU need to control the pace of the D process as the petitioner.

I personally know how hard it is to step into an L’s office and start getting advice. They are not therapists so their advice will be difficult to hear, but you do need to listen to it. Just because you step through their office doors it doesn’t mean you made your choice to D. What it does mean is you made your choice to not take your WW’s bullshit anymore. What it does mean is you are taking action to protect yourself.

The amount of disrespect you are hearing from her in those VAR recordings should tell you that she is secretly waging a war with you right now. She is enlisting this OM to validate her cause against you, for whatever resentment she has with you. We all know none of it is justified, but she is acting like petulant self entitled 13 yr old girl. She is unable to work with you on your M as a rational adult.

Look, I did exactly what you did. I waited. Then I let my XW file, and she dragged it on unnecessarily for another 9 months as the petitioner while she enjoyed her cake-eating lifestyle. Don’t let her pull that stunt on you.

Besides, even if you both D you can still get back together if R is even possible. You just cannot let fear dictate how you stand your ground. I can tell you know that your “nicing” approach (and I did this as well) is doing nothing but feeding the ego of that petulant self entitled monster in your WW right now.

Good job on the cash situation and staying vigilant.

...her cause against you, for whatever resentment she has with you. We all know none of it is justified, but she is acting like petulant self entitled 13 yr old girl. She is unable to work with you on your M as a rational adult.

^^^Yep. It is so very frustrating indeed. But there is no real option other than 'tough love'.

...I waited. Then I let my XW file, and she dragged it on unnecessarily for another 9 months as the petitioner while she enjoyed her cake-eating lifestyle...even if you both D you can still get back together if R is even possible. You just cannot let fear dictate how you stand your ground.

^^^Yep. There are advantages to being the petitioner. By being the 'nice' guy, with her being as she is being, you are setting yourself up for a shoe dropping at a time that makes sense for her. There is no downside (except for $$$ fees) with being proactive. Even filing for divorce does not mean that you are actually divorcing.

As he said, I think a lot of folks are reluctant to protect boundaries and to file out of a fear of 'driving' their WS 'away'. Newsflash: she is already 'away'. Denial is very powerful indeed. Unfortunately.

Ultimately, you are the victim here, and you should work hard to make the future happen at your timing and for your protection, not hers.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 9:15 AM, May 23rd (Friday)]

I am a lawyer. Explain that you are not ready to file but you are at the office to learn what your rights and responsibilities are in the event you do enter the divorce process. This is stuff any lawyer who handles divorces locally will know.

Prepare,an outline of your issues

Custody

Support

Visitation

Health insurance

Property division

Assets and debts (approximate is good enough for this purpose)

How long if uncontested

How long if contested

Fees and costs ( contested usually is hourly since you don't control how much she will fight)

Does fault play any role in any of the above in your state

Pension rights of other spouse--and vice versa if she has pension, too.

Most lawyers offer free consultations unless the firm is one that exists to extract maximum revenue from every person who walks through the door. Ask ahead of time.

Information=knowledge=less fear and uncertainty=power

As someone above stated, lawyers aren't marriage counselors. Although most can tell you who the good ones are.

If you're in a fight, don't fight over trinkets. Only the lawyers benefit from such fights by getting higher fees.

Thanks guys. I will continue to think about the lawyer and promise to see one if she breaks NC.

Can't Trust Her

Just reread your entire post and understand that last time you felt you really confronted too early without enough information. Others have given you good info and reasons why you should see a lawyer in advance of needing one so you are prepared.

Just thought I would see if there may be anything else you might not have thought of. You stated that there was one friend on this girls ski trip who you are confident would have told you if she thought your wife slept with this guy on trip. Let's assume that is true, but you can't be sure of that. The other friends on this trip could easily at lunch or gym let her use their cell phones to contact this guy and you will never know unless she talks about it to someone in her car. That is just another are of enforcing NC that is hard to monitor.

You DO have one major thing in your favor as far as her starting a PA with this guy if one did not already happen, and that is the geography of him being across the country from where you live. But that is also a bit disturbing for this reason. Ask yourself why a fit, active single guy living across the country would have any real desire to doggedly maintain a relationship with a married woman whose husband does not approve UNLESS he was already invested in some physical relationship with her. Would you do that???? My guess is that unless you had already banged her or where sure she wanted you to that you would have better things to do then get involved in this drama. I believe that you wife is the pursuer here and that she will be the one who breaks NC, but I know if i was him I'd move on to more eligible women.

The other advantage you have is that you are stating that you two had a good and frequent sexual relationship prior to this. Well, she will either do one of two things. If she starts to not want to have sex with you as often or does not act the same towards you, that will give you continuous feedback on where her head is at. Most BH or BW notice a difference in the intimacy. Her other option is to give you more sex to lull you to sleep. So you should get some idea what is going on easier than if as a couple you had very little intimacy or closeness.

Now for the downside. You and everyone reading what is going on knows she is not thinking about you right now, and given that you have deprived her of something i would be alert that she does not start up with a local running buddy.I am not a big disciple of this Dr Hartley guy who writes the books, but i know he recommends that couples do some leisure activities together because when one partner spends a lot of time doing something without the other they are more likely to enter an affair. She obviously has had at least an EA. It could manifest itself with someone else because her heart is not with you right now.

Lastly, I know you are getting tough comments from me and others, but we took the lumps and is most of the cases did not catch it at the stage you might have. The betting lione of probably 95% of the people talking to you, all of whom do not want to see you hurt any more, is that you wife cannot be trusted further than you can throw her, and that she will burn you again if given the opportunity.

You know about all the out of town races. You also know this other guy has the funds to go to them, and if there are any other girls trips planned i dont see how you can agree to that knowing he is single and can afford to fly anywhere.

Keep posting. Hang in there.

That's depressing. I don't think they have gone further than kissing g but I think that is due to him. I have listened to that kiss over and over and even tried to clean up the sound. There's a fair bit of background noise. But it is clear that after two tries he stopped the kiss saying "this is wrong". I can't hear her reply but he gets out of the car and she drives off after.

Would his resolve break down in the future? Probably. My wife is a very sexy creature.

I will continue to think about the lawyer and promise to see one if she breaks NC.

Yup. Gave myself those ultimatums too. Funny thing was, I kept pushing that ultimatum to myself down the road because I was scared. I was codependent in the marriage.

Like Badhurt explains, we are speaking from experience. What we see is script behavior, not only from your WW but from you as well.

This isn't a 2x4 at you. Just know that we understand, far more than you may believe. You want solid ground to stand on before taking action. Just make sure you don't keep kicking the can down the road for too far on your self-ultimatums. If she gets ahead of you on all this it will definitely bite you in the ass later.

Soap opera stars? If so, this may only have been the end of an episode. Or, he realizes that this geographically undesirable tryst is wrong. But why? Or he's H Bogart and she's I Bergman in the last scene of Casablanca at the airport where she takes off with her H and leaves Bogart on the runway. We' ll always have Paris........

He knows what a mess an A can bring? She doesn't, or has forgotten.

Where is that damn crystal ball when you need it?

Your motto should be " I only have two balls and neither is made of crystal".

Or, he realizes that this geographically undesirable tryst is wrong.

Interesting, there is something I had not thought of and is rarely ever seen here. The OM said no more, because it isn't right or it's too far of a distance. This could be the reason your wife is so down.

If thats the case, her withdrawal symptoms should start to fade. Or she really needs to find out what her mental state in life is.

She certainly needs to be clearer with you about your future together. She could be thinking anything at this time, which is unfair to you not knowing what she is thinking.

Can't Trust Her

Try not to be depressed. Get from the denial stage to the MAD stage. Depression will lead to inaction and paralysis. You need to be alert and active on guard . That is why we are here to help keep you focused.

I did not mean to imply that I thought your PI missed a real sexual encounter after race. I just can't imagine this guy pursuing your wife all over country if nothing happened on ski trip. Especially with your disapproval of him now known:

The point is your wife did, was, or is trying to have an affair with him, and may look for another running buddy even if you successfully kill this off, unless she decides to work on your marriage. Her boundaries suck as evidenced by having the balls to invite this guy independently into your home without asking you.

Unless she shows some sign of seriously working on your marriage and rebuilding your trust, you will eventually need the lawyer over this guy or another one that she befriends. That is why others are telling you to be prepared.

And again no more overnights away from you anywhere

CanITrustHer,

I am late to this thread, but I think we can all agree that 3 essential components(out of many) of marriage are:

1. respect

2. kindness

3. being a team

Let me ask you 3 questions:

1. Is she respecting you with her actions right now?

2. Is she showing you any kindness?

3. Is her identity "we" or "me" right now?

Do you deserve this ^^^^^?