SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I wish I could do that, happyman. It's a very good idea. Thank you.

And thank the rest of you for your support. I feel so weak and needy.

Unfortunately, the race is an hour away, my girls have a swim meet at the same time and I'm supposed to be the flipping announcer. Won't that be fun?

This morning at the gym, I deadlifted 405lbs. It's amazing what rage can do considering that I'm barely eating. Haven't done that in years. I had a guy there take a picture so I could send it to my wife. I did it, but I broke down crying after. I hope the guy didn't notice. Wife said she liked the picture.

I can't breathe it hurts so much. Please, God, give me strength.

I've just read this entire thread. You've gotten a lot of advice this week. Take what parts work for you and leave the rest. All of our stories are the same even when parts of them are different. Only you know what options work best for you. It is your story.

I wish you strength as you go through the next couple of days. Eat something healthy and good for you. Take a multivitamin tonight. Hug your daughters extra hard.

Is her race buddy still staying at your house after the race?

Not everyone agreed with me, but my xhusbands EA was enough of a reason for me to file for divorce. Once I knew the extent of his on line sexual banter with the AP (who he did have contact with in real life) I didn't really care if the affair had become actually a PA or not. He denied it had become physical and I found it didn't matter to me. In my opinion most EAs are PAs that just haven't happened yet.

Courage and strength. Know that you will get through this. You will.

This is an anonymous forum. I do not know who you are, all i see is the name 'CanITrustHer' asking for advice.

I do not post here with the intention of humiliating/insulting you.

Your story reminds me of this:

A city is experiencing a terrible flood. A man is sitting on his front porch watching the water rise and a jeep drives up. “Get in! Everything’s going to be underwater!” “No thanks. God will save me. An hour passes and the water has risen in the house. A boat comes by. “Get in! You’re going to drown!” “No thanks. God will save me.” The water rises over the house. The man is now on the roof. A helicopter flies overhead. “We’ll lower a line. Grab it or you’ll die!” “No thanks. God will save me.” The man drowns. When he gets to Heaven and meets God he says, “God! Why didn’t you save me?!”

“I sent a jeep, a boat, and a helicopter. What more did you want?"

You know she is not behaving appropriately. You know she is lying. You have proof that she fantasizes about him (or is this from another thread? Apologies if I'm wrong). Regardless of what she has actually done she has proven herself to be completely untrustworthy. Your old marriage is dead. If you want to remain with her, you both need to build a new one together.

Right now, the final choice of R or D is miles away and for the moment irrelevant. You need to regain control of your own life. and start standing up for yourself. You need to be proactive, not passively reacting to each of her moves. You need to breathe, dust yourself off, breathe some more and start confronting this problem head on. You have on multiple occasions attempted to avoid conflict, and yet your life is no better. So why keep doing it?

You are not at fault for her behavior. Her actions are 100% on her. However, in my opinion you are moving dangerously close from victim to willing participant.

If i were in your position, i would have already filed for divorce. The process takes a long time, and in that time you can shock her out of her fantasy and see whether or not she is remorseful for her actions. If she doesn't care and refuses to dropkick her boyfriend, then the marriage is over anyway and you can begin to move on. There are numerous reasons for why this is an extremely painful decision to make. This is OK. Feeling like complete shit is normal in this situation. What isn't normal is continuing to have to put up with her boyfriend. If after a certain period of time, you feel it is worth reconciling - then you stop the divorce.

Others may have a different opinion on this, but after seeking legal counsel i would then expose to both your wife's family and his:

"Hey everyone. I have decided to write this email to inform you all that i have filed for divorce as a direct result of her inappropriate relationship with John Smith. The purpose of this email is to make it crystal clear that i am 100% committed to my role as a father, and i have no intention of abandoning my children. If Mrs. wants to remain with John, then that is her choice, however I will not allow my children to be exposed to the man that aided in destroying my family unit" I am sure others have a better way of wording it (if you want to do this)

Although I have used the word 'divorce' above, the aim is for you to regain control of your own life - and then you can make the decision to R or D.

You cannot force/blackmail someone into loving you. And if your love is not returned, why should you remain with her? Why not find someone else that actually understands the concept of love & respect.

And finally - adopt 180.

CanITrustHer:

Are you ok? Did the PI bring any resolution to this?

*** Long Update ***

So the PI followed her and the guy guy around Friday night. They had dinner and went home. Nothing happened. I met him and we chatted for a bit when they got home.

Saturday, they did the race with my buddy (who I trust) and we all went out that night.

His flight was early Sunday morning so we stayed up and then she drove him to the airport. According to the recorder in her car, they chatted about the race and nothing much happened until the last few minutes before he got out at the airport. More about this later.

Sunday, I got up and let her sleep until about 10am when I couldn't stand it any longer and woke her.

I first told her about how horrible of a week I've had and then I told her it was because she had been lying to me about many things and that now she needed to tell me to the truth. She was silent a long time and I asked if she was trying to come up with a good story. She then answered my questions. When she lied, I told her it was a lie. I never told her how I knew, but she's not stupid.

To sum up:

She says the only physical contact was a long kiss and hug while dropping him at the airport. Based on what I know, this seems true.

She admitted to lying to me about all the things that I knew, but still refuses to apologize for the lying. This still mystifies me. I think it's because in her mind she lied to me for my sake. Yea, whatever. On the plus side at least she's not just telling me what I need to hear.

She keeps saying that it's just a friendship like with any other friend. I of course ask if she buys other friends secret gifts or deletes messages to them. She says no and drops it for a time.

She admits that she doesn't know how things would be different if this guy were close. He's across the country. I told her that I think she would have been having a full blown affair.

She admits that the panties thing was incredibly stupid. I agreed.

She admits that she would have been fine keeping things as the were indefinitely. I told her that I saw an escalation and I believe that things would continue to escalate.

She told me that she would drop contact with this guy if asked. I told her that it was her choice but that reconciliation would be incredibly difficult with him in the picture even as a "friend."

She told me how it's unfair to lose this friend. I told her that was her fault because of her actions.

So right now, she's sad and withdrawn. She says she wants to save the marriage, but I feel she's really just sad at the prospect of loosing him. We have our rings on and I am fully committed to the 180.

I'm trying to follow the advice in the Just Friends book and not make any sweeping decisions/ultimatums right now, but I have told her that I need several things.

1. A full and heartfelt apology for the lying and deceit over the last few months.

2. She needs to fully realize that her relationship was not "just friends"

3. I need her to be honest.

There will probably be more. We've talked about counseling. She said she would go if she had to, but didn't want to. I think it's a good idea to try.

Thank you, wewillmakeit.

I am doing much better. I guess misery truly does love company. I'm sad of course and right now I don't really see how we can heal, but maybe that will pass.

She said she would go if she had to, but didn't want to

Gently, does this show that she really wants to save the marriage? You can lead a horse to water....

She told me that she would drop contact with this guy if asked. I told her that it was her choice but that reconciliation would be incredibly difficult with him in the picture even as a "friend."

She told me how it's unfair to lose this friend

Gently, she's telling you what her priorities are. Please, listen! If she really valued you as a husband, she would have dropped him and then told you she did.

Strength

^^^^ What 5454 said.

Also, this is her 2nd affair. Yes this qualifies as an affair. She's in the fog and not currently in your marriage.

1. A full and heartfelt apology for the lying and deceit over the last few months.

2. She needs to fully realize that her relationship was not "just friends"

3. I need her to be honest.

#1, in order for you to R at this point, your #1 boundary going forward in your M is for her to fix her shit. Why is it acceptable to her to keep doing this to you? She has officially entered the repeat offender list. You just caught it before it went sexual, but kissing is a PA in most books. This will happen again unless she fixes herself.

Now that you know it's a PA, what about her affair partner's situation? Does he have a spouse or girlfriend?

yop

ETA - updated the word "friend" to affair partner since that is what he is. Without a doubt. You should refer to him by "affair partner" with her going forward any time you speak to her about it.

[This message edited by yearsofpain25 at 12:29 PM, May 19th (Monday)]

You guys are right. She is not fully committed to saving the marriage.

She doesn't think it was an affair. I do though not as bad as the first one. She was "in love" and they had sex. Guess that's an improvement.

Years ago, we were talking about my dad and his drinking. I said that he wasn't an alcoholic because he kept it under control. She pointed out that there are different levels of alcoholics which is true. Well, I have pointed out to her that there are different levels of affairs. I'm sure it didn't sink it.

I keep wanting to pick up my phone and text her about my day or how I'm feeling or to just tell her I love her. This 180 thing is hard.

ETA: As far as I know, the other guy isn't married and doesn't have a girlfriend. Ironically, he got divorced two years ago because his wife had an affair. Nice.

[This message edited by CanITrustHer at 12:42 PM, May 19th (Monday)]

She admitted to lying to me about all the things that I knew, but still refuses to apologize for the lying

You also think she lies in order not to hurt you...do not fall into that trap. Sure that could be what she is thinking and it sounds nice. But in reality, lying is only used because you do not want someone to know the truth.

There are several valid reasons to lie. To save yourself from embarrassment, to keep the affair alive and so as not to anger the BS. All three are usually a reason for a lie in an affair.

Ask her point blank why she feels lying is okay, why she feels lying to you is acceptable. Would she like it if all of a sudden you started lying to her about every single thing.

She told me how it's unfair to lose this friend.

Ask her how fair it us for you to be sitting at home trying to trust and believe her while she is sitting in a car kissing this guy...just how fair is all of this to you.

We've talked about counseling. She said she would go if she had to, but didn't want to. I think it's a good idea to try.

Of course she doesn't want to go. That means being embarrassed in front of a stranger. That means being told by someone other than you, that what she did was wrong. And she hates to hear that.

Apparently she needs to read the book Not Just Friends, because she doesn't get it.

I am glad the PI didnt find anything absolutely terrible like an afternoon in a motel room. And now you can move forward with what you do know happened. No more wondering.

I think you are right. Geography is your ally in preventing what could be an LTA. Lying is toxic, and the desire to keep this "friend" only makes it worse.

I've commented like this before to others: there is no hint of remorse in what she has said. It's all about how things will impact her. Fog? I think so.

You should consider doing what Bigger has taught others here. Tell her she's free to work on your marriage or she's free to keep in communication with him. But not as your wife.

It's that simple. You do not want a three person marriage.

from craig2001

Ask her how fair it us for you to be sitting at home trying to trust and believe her while she is sitting in a car kissing this guy...just how fair is all of this to you.

...and to your kids and your family.

he got divorced two years ago because his wife had an affair.

Is the irony of that statement lost on her? That she's willing to throw away your M with someone who is now knowingly partaking in an A even after affair partner himself may (or may not) have been the vicitim of an A. He's a liar and a cheat so nothing he said may be true.

AP knows all about you. He's met you and your kids. AP's willing to be a cheat himself. Point out that this guy has no character that he can come and meet your family and still have the balls to effect your M. Serious balls so if he's willing to go that far, what else is he cheating at? He cannot be trusted. AP might say he doesn't have a girlfriend, but you can't really be sure because AP is now a known cheat. Bottom line, her AP can't be trusted just as she can't be trusted. She might not see it but can't hurt to point it out.

Point out that one of the consequences of her actions is that this AP has now violated you and your family knowingly. Keep showing her the consequences of her actions. Let her know that if he had a girlfriend or a wife you would be exposing the affair to them as well. And if you find out that he does, you should expose it.

Bottom line, keep letting her know that her actions have consequences. That you are willing to have an M with her, but not with three. NC should be #2 on your list of boundaries.

Ok here goes, and this may seem harsh, but I have no filter, and I certainly suck at being gentle. Just call me Nurse Ratchet.....

She keeps saying that it's just a friendship like with any other friend. I of course ask if she buys other friends secret gifts or deletes messages to them

NO Not Just a friend. She is justifying her actions to you and minimizing them.

She admits that she would have been fine keeping things as the were indefinitely.

BULL LONY.....She would have been happy to take if further when he came to town, if her pesky husband wasn't in the way.

She admits that the panties thing was incredibly stupid.

NO IT's not stupid IT's CHEATING.

She told me how it's unfair to lose this friend. I told her that was her fault because of her actions.

OH and it's fair to take what you assumed was a normal marriage and destroy it, without even talking to you?

She is manipulating you. I hope you can see that. I also hope that you have called her out on her bullshit with each of these statements. Cause quite honestly it makes me want to smack her. She sounds like a self entitled brat.

YOU deserve more. She isn't even owning up to this as having an A, or crossing a line. IT is definitely an A, PA, EA, whatever you want to call it, it is an A.

I hope you can stay strong and cautious. I fear that the second you let your guard down she is going to destroy your relationship even further.

You need to get really tough with her. She lies and deceives you, brings another man into your home (not a hotel where she could bang him) only because you caught her, and this low life scum bag after sleeping in your house makes out with her at the airport. I would tell her the next conversation she has with him it's done and also that she is not going to any out of town races that you do not attend or geography will not be on your side for long. If he is single he can easily go to wherever she is with no problem.

If you make any compromises and her leaving town overnight you are asking for more trouble and if she misses a race too bad

So we have a counseling session this Wednesday. She is not happy and might not say much, but will come so that is something.

She has not told the other guy the extent of our conversations. She says, they've only talked about race stuff and she mentioned that they needed to talk.

She still thinks that I'm overreacting based on the previous affair.

I still think that she's in lala land.

We had a long talk last night about all of this. It got pretty heated at times. Around midnight, we were at a calm point and decided to quit kicking each other for the night.

I need to reread the 180. Some of those points are easier said than done.

dont be surprised if she does honestly believe these things to be true. a wandering spouses head can be stuck incredibly far up their rear end and they tend to justify and rationalize things to minimize/maximize whatever they have to in order to be able to continue the justifications and rationalizations.

many waywards repeat these lies so often that they in effect rewrite history in their minds. who wants to tell themselves "im a selfish, inconsiderate person who placed myself and my pleasures above my family with no acceptable excuse possible". so they rewrite history, minimize the relationship with the OP, and maximize their rationals ... all in an attempt to be able to better live with themselves and their actions.

As the saying goes, this isn't her first rodeo. She knows this is despicable action which wounds you deeply. There is little doubt but that had you stuck your head in the sand she woul have had her romantic "fling" (her description, not the truth but fog-shrouded nonsense) and hoped you would remain ignorant of the situation.

Do you know wht her "issues" are that predate the ski trip? Those are fair game for your upcoming session, Think about them to prepare. Never go into a meeting without knowing the agenda in advance or you will find yourself at a big disadvantage.

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 6:53 AM, May 20th (Tuesday)]

She has not told the other guy the extent of our conversations. She says, they've only talked about race stuff and she mentioned that they needed to talk.

I'm sorry but I don't believe this for one damn second.

Listen this is her second time doing this and she is the queen of minimizing. You need to become the king of "I don't believe you."

Actions are what you need to be paying attention to, not the drivel coming out of her mouth. She is saying exactly what she knows she is supposed to, and to get you to believe that this is still all about a race, when in your gut you know that a race doesn't end with making out with someones wife.

You need to really do some soul searching, and some reading on codependency, to help you understand why you are so willing to allow her to treat you like this. These actions are not those of love or caring. These are actions of someone who is concerned only about themselves.

I know this hurts like hell, but until you start putting yourself first she is going to continue to disrespect you, and cheat.

It is YOUR job to knock her out of la la land!!!! She has given this guy a passionate kiss at the airport, not told him anything about your wanting this to end, so as far as she is concerned, he is still her ":friend" until she can get together with him again. Not sure what the mention of ski trip is, but if you allow that now you are doomed!!!

You need to go over in therapy tomorrow that you are not under any circumstances accepting this guy in your marriage any more.

So we have a counseling session this Wednesday.

And when its your turn to talk and explain why you both are in counseling you need to tell it exactly like it is, like this:

"13 years ago my wife had an affair. It was ugly. We separated but finally reconciled. Now we have two beautiful daughters.

In general our marriage is good now...or perhaps it was. A few months ago she met a guy on a girls ski trip. He lives close to where she grew up so they had something in common. She told me all this at the time and I wasn't worried.

But now I'm starting to wonder. They've been texting and calling each other...and she's been deleting some of the texts. Also there have been other hints. She takes her phone w her everywhere where before she was constantly leaving it around.

"

Those are your words, your story. End it with the latest information about her making out with this guy at the airport.

If your MC is good, he/she will call your WW out and agree that it is an A. It is what your WW fears to hear.

You should also read "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover and see how you are "Nicing" things along for your WW way too much.