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What's even stranger to me is that she doesn't appear to making any current promises to OM to string him along, either. No more sexting, nude pics, expressions of desire for sex with him, etc. She's simply flattened out like she's taking way too many antidepressants or something. One might have reasonably expected those behaviors in a long distance (he's 3.5 hours away) affair, whether EA or PA. IUH hasn't seen those, and I doubt she'd risk misusing the company email or text for such purposes.

What she's doing is having two men wanting her at the same time.

Which is a symptom of some inner issue that most girls resolve by the time they leave high school. Sure its an ego stroke, but the stakes are too high for it to be only that. I would have bet my last dollar that the 1:00 am tape would have provided the "answer" with certainty. It didn't. She didn't respond to his profession of love with her profession of love. Thus the "flat" affect, as psych types call it.

You can tell that nobody here knows anything for sure by the number of responses and the varying advice given. I'm sure many of us are reflecting on our own histories/current situations when offering advice. All mean well, but in the end, IUH has to do what he has to do to feel honorable about attempting to save his M whether he succeeds or not. As he stated in his last post.

2. IUH, are you 100% sure that your WW is going to IC? Have you ever driven her there, met the counselor, or seen any bills or insurance forms?

She may have a whole secret life that you don't know about, & this one-kiss-Mexico-trip is just the tip of the iceberg.

This is a great thought that i have not seen any one else think of. IU Hoosier. have you seen any insurance bills or receipts. No IC is free. It had to be paid for somehow if it occurred.

She's simply flattened out like she's taking way too many antidepressants or something.

That is interesting. And I agree that your wife is not acting normal for someone in an affair. Any kind, EA or PA.

Also something to note, when she does talk to her friends, she is not cutting you down either. Which happens a lot in some affairs, especially when there is love for the OM.

Cutting down the husband is a way for the WW to rationalize their affair to their friends.

Something's not right. Your wife seems to have a huge dilemma and or burden here making up her mind. But what the hell is her decision.

I find it hard to believe it is over some guy in Canada with a kid that doesn't speak English well.

Which is why I posted earlier about the possibility of marital issues existing independent of OM. She could have had issues which predated the Mexico trip, and OM was simply a pleasant diversion from them down in Margaritaville.

And, the reason considering this possibility is important is that such may come up in MC session. A counselor who hears "I'm not sure I want to be married to IUH because of issues X Y and Z which have been developing for years" isn't going to ignore that statement even though the A is IUH's issue at present. And X Y and Z don't even have to be IUH's issues, either. To a counselor, NC for weeks might even make the A issue less pressing if s/he hears that W is ready to leave but isn't sure and wants to save the M.

I have been wrong before, but I really wonder here. Her actions, or lack thereof, are atypical.

Thinking about this more, I go back to what her IC supposedly said about separating. IUH, have you discussed any of this with her IC therapist.

Your wife doesn't really seem to be pursuing this guy like you normally read in an affair.

Maybe she is clinically depressed.

Craig,

She may be depressed or whatever. She is making his life an unbearable hell fest and still refuses to break with this OM. So if she is clinically depressed he will be long gone from her life before she gets cured of that because while she is whatever (Im no shrink) she will not leaver the affair and that is all that matters.

IU Hoosier is what is important, his sanity and safety of his emotions.

By the way she STILL has not told OM that it is over. She has told IUH that she will not contact him, but after being "unable to tell him in an e mail or on the phone", that means in her state of mind she is going cold turkey and blocking everything. How many believe he does not have her work phone (not work cell), that IUH has no access to. And how many believe the OM will just sit up there in Canada after telling her he loves her and not use EVERY means at his disposal to get to her

The time for excuses for her is over please.

[This message edited by Badhurt at 11:16 AM, June 5th (Thursday)]

The time for excuses for her is over please.

There is a major difference between excuses and answers. Answers get to the root of the problem.

Since IUH wants to stay married, than finding answers is the key. Obviously his wife needs to get it together and soon.

For all we know, she just turned 30 and that is causing her to feel and act this way.

Craig,

By the way she STILL has not told OM that it is over. She has told IUH that she will not contact him, but after being "unable to tell him in an e mail or on the phone", that means in her state of mind she is going cold turkey and blocking everything. How many believe he does not have her work phone (not work cell), that IUH has no access to. And how many believe the OM will just sit up there in Canada after telling her he loves her and not use EVERY means at his disposal to get to her

You keep saying she needs to get it together and soon. Well, she is NOT so why does her age matter or what he wants as far as saving the marriage

There are only three things that matter now if the marriage is to be saved.

NO LYING

NO CONTACT

AND SUCCESSFUL MC

He already just posted he does not believe she is not lying. The shrink should do the analysis. IUH's job is to insure she does not screw him again.

[This message edited by Badhurt at 11:23 AM, June 5th (Thursday)]

I think you keep drawing a line in the sand and not following through when she breaks it. She knows this so she keeps eating cake and bascially keeping both of you in play.

She feels that she can keep doing what she is doing as there are no consequences. Status quo for her is like living a dream. Two men want to be with her. She is eating cake and eating all the ego kibbles she can find. She gets to have the chick lit type drama relationship she wants. She is addicted to that.

If you move out (consult your attorney, maybe make her move out)and if she talks to him more or worse yet sees him, it just makes it easier to know that a D is the right option. Cut your losses. You will be fine and happier to not have the drama queen in your life. The only way to win this game is not to play. Close down the bakery.

Drawing boundaries only works if there are consequences for breaking them. Being mad at her and talking about what will happen (versus actually doing it) clearly doesn't work. Have her served with D papers. Move out (again consult attorney) and begin to build a life without her. Let everyone in her family know that you are sorry you aren't going to be part of their life anymore. You understand blood is thicker than water. Once she sees the D is actually happening, she will be forced to make a choice. If she comes back it is all on your terms. No exceptions. If she doesn't you just saved yourself a life of drama and insecurity. Either way you get a peaceful place again (one day).

Show her exactly what a D would look like. Explain to anyone who ask why that she cheated on you with a guy she met on trip and let her feel the consequences/social stigma.

Let her wear her scarlet A. Social pressure seems to be her thing. Use it to your advantage.

MC will be fine, but until her head is a little clearer it isn't going to work. Let her ruin her life while making sure to protect yours.

He did serve her with divorce papers when NC was broken. And the divorce process is continuing. He wants to see if M can be salvaged and if not to end it honorably. He is doing the right things. She has quit pursuing OM. Even though NC may not be in effect. He is not acquiescing in her having H and boyfriend. He's willing to try counseling to get at the root of her infatuation. He's maintaining vigilance. What else can he do except lock her in a room without electronic communication devices? She has felt consequences -- not only the D papers but his scorn at her irrational indecision. And if I read this right, is marginally coming around. She knows seeing OM is death knell to M. And has not seen him as far as UIH can tell.

UIH is handling this tragedy very well. He'll soon know whether W is in or out.

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 11:52 AM, June 5th (Thursday)]

He did serve her with divorce papers when NC was broken. And the divorce process is continuing. He wants to see if M can be salvaged and if not to end it honorably. He is doing the right things. She has quit pursuing OM. Even though NC may not be in effect. He is not acquiescing in her having H and boyfriend. He's willing to try counseling to get at the root of her infatuation. He's maintaining vigilance. What else can he do except lock her in a room without electronic communication devices? She has felt consequences -- not only the D papers but his scorn at her irrational indecision. And if I read this right, is marginally coming around. She knows seeing OM is death knell to M. And has not seen him as far as UIH can tell.

UIH is handling this tragedy very well. He'll soon know whether W is in or out.

IUH has made it the FIRST priority that NC stays in effect and has stated numerous times it is NON-NEGOTIABLE, so i dont think anyone here should be deciding it is OK until he changes that position.

As far as locing her in a room, how about some REAL simple STUFF:

(1) iF SHE SUPPOSEDLY WANTS NO CONTACT, and OM wants to call her, the simple solution for anyone is call AT & T or whoever your provider is and CHANGE THE PHONE NUMBER.Is that complicated?? my guess is that would take about 20 minutes. What is your reaction going to be when he finds contact and she says "Oops, I just picked up phone when it rang and it was him. I must have inadvertantly turned off blocking". Well, if he does not know the darn phone number there is no need to block anything, and of course she would not consider the above as her breaking NC. You think she would hang up the phone on him???

(2) While she currently has that same phone number she can walk into work and unblock, and then block it again when she comes home. Another simple call from IU Hoosier can have the phone company tell him at any time of the day from wherever he is calling from if the OM number is blocked. If it is not, she has unblocked it and violated their agreement that HE said is non negotiable. Also a mute point if the phone number is changed.

(3) another simple call from IUH and they will provide him with all the calls on the log made and received that she can delete. Hardly a difficult task.

All of the above can also be done with her e mail. So i do not see where this is locking her in any room. I see it as expecting her to honor their agreement and making sure she does.

You seem to think because he is going to MC that he should sit back and if he stumbles upon more communication oh well.

not our call to make. He makes the call on that one and as long as IUH says NC one of the dealbreakers why are you deciding it is OK. You are entitled to your opinion. i respect that but i think the overwhelming majority of poster AND IUH are not going to take the position that it is OK to break NC because we are going to MC

With smart phones and the advanced technology, the cell company can totally be bypassed and they would have no idea who was being contacted.

There are various different programs for video chatting (skype, facetime) that use data but not cell minutes.

You are focusing on cell call and usage logs. Thats old school. Tech has moved on.

If she has a smart phone, she has access period. Even if her number changes. Even if she gets a different smart phone. She will still have access.

Who is to say she doesn't have an email set up to contact him from work (NOT WORK EMAIL)?

The point is, he is never going to be able to close every port. It can't happen.

Ok. I'm no techie, but from what IUH has said neither is she . So maybe she is not as tech savvy as you. For an investment of 45 minutes total he can make it more difficult and if she is not that tech savvy it will work.

I think you are more than likely correct that she has a separate e mail that he does not know and a FB separate account. Or something g at work. Again, the more he keeps her guessing where he is snooping and checking the more CHANCE he has to catch something.

To me anything he can do to in erase the odds to his favor a little bit cannot hurt. Look at how many waywards on here have been caught by forgetting to cover their tracks completely. If she was tech savvy on a big way he would not have stumbled on what he did

Also, the more she THiNKS he is electronically snooping the more likely she is to talk in her car because to this point she THINKS she is secure there. And you know putting a GlS on her car works because I have read a good number of success stories here.

If he is chasing her all he needs is for IUH not to know where she is for any extended period and our OM can be there quickly . All he has to do is take off work and if you LOVED someone( please that makes me sick) wouldn't you try to come see her. And of course she would just claim he showed up and what was she supposed to do

She told him originally that OM did not have her work number or e mail because of the sexting and her company checking for that stuff. But as long as they keep it clean, they can chat on her work email and talk on her work phone as long as he absorbs the charges and calls her. So knowing all we know know aid bet a lot of money she has lied to him about that too.

If you see a pattern here it is that she has lied about everything, as IU H says probably still is so I just cannot see just because he is going to MC just sitting back and relaxing and making no attempt todo anything. I guess I just feel any effort to protect himself is better than none

[This message edited by Badhurt at 2:20 PM, June 5th (Thursday)]

I think her car talks sound rehearsed. We've all noticed how they seem a bit... off. Like she is checked out, not really emotional, etc.

She talks about IUH like he is a sweater she is considering buying. She knows she needs something warm to wear so she should buy it, but the warm sweater isn't as dazzling as the pretty party dress - so she is torn. Its the dead of winter and she is thinking of forgoing the warm sweater for a party dress.

If he has filed for D and the papers have been served on her, what on earth is she doing to PROVE she wants to be in this marriage? I see a lot of people posting, but few are IUH. And even fewer are his assurances that it is 1. over with OM and 2. that is she really committed to the marriage and making it work.

She should be scared out of her mind at the mere idea that her marriage is over because she kissed some guy in Mexico.

Something doesn't make sense here. Something is off. The pieces of the puzzle are not adding up.

BrokenBlack Bird

It could not have been said better than you just did it. At first he said there was no MC until he was sure of NC . He filed , she cried and called OM at 1am when he caught her after he filed. I think he is going to MC because she is still giving him the same bull shit answers to everything and as he said refuses to deviate or answer any more questions .

So you said it exactly right and some of us would not be doing anything but waiting for her to either want to be in this M or to screw up and lie again . He has decided he wants to pursue her and hope she can around.

Everyone is different . I personally could not love with her knowing this guy is out there under these circumstances .

Who is on the verge of divorce that wants to be married and acts like she is. Not anyone aid want to live with

I'm not sure if I want to stay with her after everything she had done, but I do want to get more information. I do think she has stopped talking to this guy, but I don't know how long that will last. Hopefully it will last long enough for us to go to MC and her to start to forget about this guy while the fog goes away. If we can start going to MC and I can see she is really changing with the way she acts and what she does for me, then I will start the process of do I want to be with somebody that could do this to me. At this point, I don't know if I do. I still love her more than anything, which makes me sick sometimes when I really think about it.

Question for anybody that has had a successfull R:

I know I am a LONG way to a R, but I wanted to know if it ever comes back all the way once you R? Do you get that same feeling you use to when you hold her? Do you ever get that complete feeling back that you can be with her and get that feeling of she loves me more than anything? Does she/he ever go visit family or friends without you and you don't get that sick feeling in your stomach of what if she/he meets somebody better than you? Does that LOVE come back 100% of where it was before the A?

There are no kids involved and we are both still young. If those feelings never really come back, then there really isn't any reason to continue I guess. I still love her more than anything, but if I'm never going to get that feeling returned again, like before.

Thanks

There's a whole section on the topic where the good the bad and the ugly are discussed. In gruesome detail. You may wish to peruse those offerings.

In short, most report a different marriage with less trust even with successful"R". Some report a better marriage. Some report "false R" where WS stays in touch with affair partner (AP).

Due to varying results, no generalization can be drawn.

IU

Glad to hear you are not sure if you want her. It is good you are not putting all of your eggs in counting on her to stop treating you like this. She will not keep NC because she is not sure she loves you like she did( her words to you) and she is not sure she wants to be married . Until she decides to commit to you the MC is a waste of time except for your purpose of trying to get information. We really don't know how she is acting . Is she going out after work or coming home?

In answer to your question on R. Read my profile. You will go holy shit.

I did D immediately without stopping to pass go. But after two years or so of her doing everything your wife is NOT doing we did R.

You will not be as to think of her in the same way for a long time after want she has and still is doing to you. You may love her but some of that is because you have bee thrown this horrible shit sandwich in such a short time. Even if you did stay together you are not going to trust her for a long time.

I personally think and hope you gather your information and that she screws up quickly so you endure no more pain.

You are young with no kids and you will be fine.

You can't R if only one of you is committed to it . She has committed to nothing but herself

And please don't refer to anyone as better than you . This POS is just some prick who was in the right place at the right time for her to expose what she was looking for to test if she wants you.

[This message edited by Badhurt at 5:10 PM, June 5th (Thursday)]