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When he is telling her he loves her, what did she say in response? Your account of the conversation is actually kind of positive - she knows she has to end communication with him. Whether she will, of course, is another question.

What a POS this guy is, by the way.

sounds like she knows she needs to choose you IU. But i'm sure you feel how disrespectful it is to have another man tell your wife he loves her and her lapping it up and continuing this little drama. just very disrespectful. she really needs to get her shit together. no more discussions, late night phone calls, daydreaming about "Lothario." I mean fuck. She's drooling over a dude that has a girlfriend and a toddler. oooooooooh sounds like a good catch!

and if you do R, you obviously need to tell her no more "girls" vacations.

ETA - I agree with Redsox. this guy is a POS trying to snag a married woman. I can just hear the broken accent, "but... i lub you!" yeah right. one kiss and love. Ask her whether she thinks this guy REALLY loves her. Or just loves the thought of having sex with her. and whatever she answers, make sure you laugh and say "right."

[This message edited by mike7 at 7:35 AM, June 5th (Thursday)]

To me the simplest explanation is that she has been having an affair. Frequency of meetings unknown. OM does not say I love you after a random one kiss hookup. So maybe the EA has been going on a while and the trip was the big first meeting.

I agree that she is gas lighting her friend. People do that in order to 'talk' about some aspects of the issue (like BH 'issues') without revealing the whole truth. My WW kept her sick shit a secret from every single person. Only OM knew. They can do that.

And what did she say when he said he loves her.???

IU Hoosier

red Sox 13 posted above as well as me.

What did she say????

And want guy says that to a girl he has only kissed???? Would you?????

Your therapist HAS to press her on this and if you do not believe it dont just sit there

I'd say it to keep her talking when she's said she doesn't think we can talk any more. Without communication, I can't get to her and have my way. And he knows many women just love hearing those words. Which is why she can't promise not to talk to him again. Those words are just like a drug to her. Irresistible. Besides, it doesn't cost him anything to say he words, so the investment is a cheap one.

I haven't seen this scenario since high school when promises of love were made with one goal in mind. Think about that old song "Will

You Still Love Me Tomorrow" for the female point of view on the issue.

The only other explanation is that they are both nuts. And that's not a likely explanation.

She told him not to say stuff like that. She got a little mad because he was talking about how he might go hang out with his ex gf (not baby mamma ex gf). It sounded like he was trying to get her jelous.

But I do remember a convo with her friend last week of how she might love this guy. I just took that as total "Fog" talk back then.

If he doesn't go hang with his ex, who is he going to hang with.? I am going to keep feeling you he is going to try to see her. Stop giving her a pass on the fogHas to end. This POSOM is now getting worried he may not win.

You are a grown man so you make your own decisions but if you let her out of your sight this week end you are going to get big trouble.

How can he keep her on the hook if he does not talk to her or see her. Put your self in scum bags place. Wouldn't you try to see her.????

IUHoosier, now you know he is telling her he loves her and all he has to do is dial her number and you still refusing to change her number or make it any harder for the POS. the "block" can be reversed in two seconds whe she is at work. You are still relying on her word to be truthful and that keeps burning you.

And even if she is having a hard time resisting the. Help her by making it harder for him. She should welcome that .

The point her is that she is saying OK to things but offering you no help in helping her

You will find your way through this mess. It will be difficult but focus on the future with the belief that you WILL find happiness again...with her or without her.

[This message edited by angerisme at 2:33 PM, June 7th (Saturday)]

She got a little mad because he was talking about how he might go hang out with his ex gf (not baby mamma ex gf).

It is odd that your wife would have fallen for this guy or this type of guy.

Maybe what they say is true, always affair down.

Does your wife have low self-esteem at this time or usually?

Not much to go on with the VAR, I was expecting more in the way of something definitive for you to go on. Why is his English broken, French from Quebec?

I think your wife is on the fence, but the decision is about her future, not this guy.

Sounds more like some mid life crises.

My opinion is to go ahead with the MC and see how that turns out. Obviously, she stops talking to this guy or MC is rather worthless.

Not a lot of clear cut answers for you since this is a rather odd affair.

Angerisme

Exactly. She is the perfect cake eater. She is trying to tell him that she does not think her EA (if you believe that) is the same as her friends PA in Mexico. And she thinks it would be fine for her to pursue her relationship with the Canadian while she is still married.If this POSOM has been local she would have not agreed to NC and IU Hoosier wold have been away from her by now.

She has a logistical problem with his OM because she has a job, he lives in Canada so if her "love bull shit" develops than she or he has to quit their job and move. A more difficult proposition for her.

The 6 month separation is NOT A GOOD IDEA NOW for the following reason:

(1) IU Hoosier believes she has not actually had sex with him ( you can form your own opinion on that one)and that is a deal breaker for him. Well, if he gives her that space it is going to happen for sure and then he will not know what would have happened had he tried. He has to have the closure on that.

(2) If she is a cake eater, she would welcome the separation. Then he has no ABILITY TO GET AT THE TRUTH which he wants.

(3) I dont understand why HE should move out. There are no children here, and SHE IS THE ONE IN THE AFFAIR. Why does he move out if it comes to that????

Unfortunately, and I hope i am wrong, all of the sexting and "UI love you's" from him since the Mexico trip and her continuing to be in contact with him have made this affair grow in her mind.

She is going to break the NC again. it is just a matter of if and when he catches her unless the therapist gets her quickly to own up to her bull shit and stop the deceit.

He is desparately trying to save his marriage but she is not, and after what she has done it takes two participants, not one an a bystander with a boyfriend waiting in the wings.

All I am trying to help in doing is to do everything he can not to let her drop another "nuke" on his head. he does not deserve that.

None of this adds up to two people who have only kissed for two days. Unless i saw a polygraph I will never personally believe that. This POS has been down there between the time they got back from Mexico and she got caught.

All he can do now is go to MC, watch her try to cake eat some more at therapy, and wait to catch her. Hopefully that will not take long to hurt him more.

I hope to hell I have it ALL wrong. wE WILL SEE.

This POS has been down there between the time they got back from Mexico and she got caught.

Either I really am losing my memory, or I missed this part......

He was there with her since the trip to Mexico?

Craig,

I believe that. That was my statement because of the following IU Hoosier says he believes she did not have sex with him in Mexico. Then she comes home and is home for a few weeks i guess before the phone bill comes that started the post by IU Hoosier. He notices the foreign calls, catches her and posts on May 12 (she has been home for a few weeks and is texting and sexting POS without IU Hoosier knowledge. Then during the first week of posting, she comes home every other day cold and hot. One day not wanting to be around IU Hoosier and the next day different(he has posted that).

So you have at least a few week period where

somehow two people who have seen each other for two days, only kissed, are now at the point of "love" for each other. You really bel;ieve that????

At the time, IU Hoosier had not disclosed that this guy only lived two hours away.

How did this intensify so drastically during this

"dark" period where IU Hoosier was basically

clueless if he never came down to see her??

Everyone has an opinion. You may disagree but it sure adds up.

And after reading IU Hoosiers post about the 1AM conversation, with POS telling her of his love, you think he is going to want to sit up there.

Once the MC starts, if he does not see a dramatic change for the better, and does not demand a polygraph he is toast. Like IU Hoosier said. That should wait 2-3 weeks and the first question should be

HAVE YOU MAINTAINED NC, THEN

ARE YOU STILL STATING THERE HAS BEEN NO SEX OTHER THAN KISSING

If she passes those there is hope. If not or if she refuses to do it or becomes panic when he asks for it, then he is toast.

Like i said, I could be ALL wrong. Again, I hope to hell I am

[This message edited by Badhurt at 9:26 AM, June 5th (Thursday)]

No, to my knowledge he hasn't been down here. Meh was going to meet her up, but I found out a few days before and she did not go. I have pushed her as much as I can without the help of MC. I can't get anymore answers from her, because she will just keep giving me the same answers back. Hopefully, she's telling the truth (99.9% not accurate), but I'm hoping I will find a lot out in MC.

I am not going to move out just yet, and I don't have any intentions of throwing all her shit out in the front yard (I don't want to leave this marriage with me losing control). I want all our family and friends to know I did everything I could and this is 100% on her. I want her to realize that at too at some point no matter if we R or if we D. I'm sure it will click one day, probably will be too late for us.

IU Hoosier,

I hope you do too, but if you believe what she is telling you is 99% inaccuate now, your best defense is vigilence. You have done everything you can. Her continued stonewalling is not a good sign, and she will try to BS the MC i am sure.

I agree you should not throw her crap out on lawn but if it comes to it and you want to sgtay in the house, you should not leave it for her

UI,

Boy this just keeps on going, sorry about that.

The affair is up to your WW at this point, whether she gets played by this guy, or decides to break away. Chances are, they may have had been intimate but not as much as this POS would like to. You've done everything you could up to this point - she knows what she is doing and needs to break the fog herself.

My suggestion is to plan to get away this week-end with your wife. Sounds like you aren't too far away from Cedar Point Park (Ohio).

Have lots of fun, romance and get this POS off her mind. I'm not saying the 'pick me' dance, I am saying enjoy her, and let her enjoy herself with you. Mexico was a vacation, this can be a mini with lots of time together.

No phones, no emails - just you two.

I wish you luck.

There is something unusual here and I can't put my finger on it. It is as though she went to Mexico with the intent to cheat. It doesn't sound like she knew the guy before Mexico - though it wouldn't shock me if she did.

Her entire response since you confronted her has seemed to me to have been pretty checked out. As though she had intended to have an affair long before she met this guy. The idea that she proposed leaving after you found it just seems inexplicable to me - as though she was ready to give up.

I would raise this with your MC. Your W's reaction is very atypical. It maybe that the fog is starting to lift - but as others her have posted I would be very suspicious.

That was a great idea.

my guess is she won't go for it. he will probably get more VAR of her talking to at best girlfriends about her OM. She's not talking to htem about IU Hoosier

Your motives are good. You are doing the right thing. You are doing just about everything possible that you can do honorably.

Try the MC meeting. Don't expect miracles, of course, but do expect information. Which will assist your decision making. If a miracle happens, its a miracle.

Is she still seeing the same IC person? I'd love to know if the "trial separation" was honest advice or given on at best partial information and perhaps fabrications. That still makes no sense to me at all. And by honest advice, I mean given with full knowledge of the truth. If that's the case, its crazy and I think she'd be better served by another C.

[This message edited by Schadenfreude at 9:44 AM, June 5th (Thursday)]

Hoosier,

Another poster touched on how a WS will minimize their actions to their friends and will actually out others to deflect attention from themselves. OMG - that was an epiphany for me, because that is EXACTLY what my exWH did. We were friends with a couple that were splitting up due to the H's A. My WH was just "aghast". He was trash-talking about the H, how wrong it was to cheat, how he would never cheat on me, blah-de-fuckity-BLAH.

WELL, when the truth came out, my exWH had been cheating on me for YEARS. Yes, YEARS.

I'm sorry to say, but I STILL believe there was more to this than some kissing. No AP is in "love" after just meeting someone and some kissing. That just does NOT make sense.

Judge Judy says "If it doesn't make sense, then it's not true." I firmly believe that in this situation. This does NOT make sense, and sadly, I believe her "kissing story" is her minimalizing her behavior and simply is not true.

I, along with many others, have said that she is still actively in the A. You just have to find the source of their communication. And, as I said before - LOOK FOR A PHONE CHARGER. The burner phone may be well hidden (even staying at work, etc.) And, it's possible she's keeping the charger there as well.

At this point, I think you have to assume the worst, and hope for the best. There simply is MORE to this story than she is telling ANYONE. I've been around here a loooooooong time - look at my membership #. Each and every time that SI peeps have said there is more to this story, or things aren't adding up, etc. Guess what?

THERE WAS MORE TO THE STORY.

I'm sorry, Hoosier, but I think she's still gaslighting you and just buying time while she keeps you on the hook along with the OM. She can't make up her mind, so she's trying to keep you both engaged while she makes her decision, IMHO.

I have several thoughts I just wanted to throw out there:

1. IUH, since you found POSOM's FB page, are there any photos of his child? If you click on them, they may have come from the child's mother's FB. Don't know if he would be FB friends with the child's mother (who is supposedly his ex GF?)

How about trying to find her & you contact her?

This POSOM is for sure a liar. Who even knows ---he may still be in a relationship with this woman.

Also, you mentioned another ex GF, who is not his child's mother.

Maybe you could find her on POSOM's FB page. Look at his photos---maybe there is a recent photo of him with a woman which looks romantic.

You need to out him to any potential partner that he has up there in Canada-----that will throw a monkey wrench into his plans. If you are able to find any women that he is currently involved with up there, they can become your ally.

There are many many many stories on this site of an A finally coming to an end when the BS contacted the BS of the AP.

2. IUH, are you 100% sure that your WW is going to IC? Have you ever driven her there, met the counselor, or seen any bills or insurance forms?

I am not just saying this because it sounds like the worst counseling advice I have ever heard & I really can't believe that any counselor would tell a newly exposed WS that they should go alone to a hotel to sort out their thoughts, unless the BS asked them to leave. Maybe WW has never gone to counseling & just made it all up. Maybe that is when she gets together with OM.

I agree with the above assessments---your WW seems very controlled & calculating to me.

She may have a whole secret life that you don't know about, & this one-kiss-Mexico-trip is just the tip of the iceberg.

3. I was just going to say, but Badhurt beat me to it,

WHY SHOULD YOU, IUH, MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOME?

You are not the one who threw a nuclear bomb into the marriage.

If you don't see some significant change soon, especially after trying MC, time to ask WW to move out.

This limbo will go on for as long as you let it.

Do you want to be here 6 mos from now still in the same place, her not knowing what she wants, you not knowing what is going on, or where she is at, & not able to believe her---hoping she will decide to pick you sometime soon?

4. One of the predominant themes which this post started with, was that you IUH, may have caught this PA (Yes, even one kiss is a PA) BEFORE they actually did the deed. I am not trying to say that anyone's hurt on this site is worse than anyone else's----we are all in pain. But, for those of us BSs whose WSs actually did "do the deed" with their OM/OW, it is definitely difficult to "get over" that----that's why we all are hoping that you can stop this in its tracks now.

I am wondering if maybe that issue is not what you should put your focus on. Because whether it has already crossed that line or not, your WW definitely intended to do it.

I think you should really look at the big picture of how you are being treated right now. You are being disrespected & humiliated.

I know you are also grieving the loss of the marriage you thought you had, the life you thought you had, the wife you thought you had.

Are you willing to spend the rest of your life with a person who continues to treat you this way?

[This message edited by mchercheur at 10:00 AM, June 5th (Thursday)]