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I have to admit Mchercheur has me spooked. I think she could be right. The text saying "i really screwed up" could mean she met the OM and screwed him. I really hope you know where that text came from IU. I'm starting to think she finally got what she wanted and is now regretting it.

What Mike just told you is very common. A lot of women feel awful as they are on the way home or right after they do something really awful. We all hope you can VERIFY that you know where she was.

If she was meeting him, there probably will be something on the VAR of some conversation verifying he is where they are meeting or something. Last week you had a hard time getting your hands on it. Until then,

unless you are absolutely sure where she was, my first question to her would be "Did you meet him or talk to him last night?", and i wouild follow that up by saying that "You know I will eventually find out the truth, Why don't you just tell me" because if you lie again it will be over no matter when I find out

Remember, at this point, you still have

You just got a couple of texts that are almost the same as you got when she started this mess. You said at the beginning that you did not think your wife was so technologically great and not good at the shitty lifestyle she was leading. You are probably right on that one since she appears not too inquisitive about how you know anything. I am willing to bet you that if you tell her you can get the phone company to verify what cell tower those calls bounced off of that right at that moment she will have no idea whether you can find out that way or not.

Everything you have now are just words coming from someone who has deceived you and manipulated you since she got home from Mexico. MC to address HER problems should NOT be the highest priority before you answer these things that McChercheur and Mike have brought up.

Lets hope you got some answers when you post again.

[This message edited by Badhurt at 12:10 PM, June 8th (Sunday)]

She was at home. I was able to track her phone as she was texting me from that phone.

That is good news. But do you think she was home all night???? All of the things we were worried about could have happened before those texts. It was way after you left the house to go camping that those texts came.

See what the VAR says. Lets see if there was a phone spat. If she was out and up to no good I do not believe she would drive in complete silence and since she has no idea the VAR is there (please do not let her know this right away no matter what happens. it is your only safety net right now)

NO CONTACT- VERIFIABLE

These should be your requirements. non negotiable.

[This message edited by Badhurt at 12:55 PM, June 8th (Sunday)]

IUH,

Here you go. Someone posted this today on JFO. You should read this carefully

It is entitled BEFORE YOU RECONCILE

tHERE IS A NICE CHART DIFFERENTIATING remorse and rugsweeping that you should pay attention to. I could not get it to copy but you can look at it on the thread posted today. There is nothing in this thread or information recommending going anywhere near MC until these things are met.

I hope it helps you.

[This message edited by Badhurt at 6:57 PM, June 8th (Sunday)]

I'm glad she was home. Another good sign. She may just be starting to realize what's she's done and how important you are to her. You will find out the truth when you get home.

I know it sounds like we're paranoid and very suspicious. We are. We're doing it for a couple of reasons. In the first case, most BSs are in shock and way behind the game when they first discover their spouse has been unfaithful. they aren't suspicious and more things tend to happen, some that may be unforgivable. Secondly, having been here for a while, we've seen waywards who haven't snapped out of their fog do a lot of shitty, sneaky things. So... been there done that. We're trying to help you.

In any event, I hope she snaps out of it and becomes the wife you deserve soon.

[This message edited by mike7 at 8:30 PM, June 8th (Sunday)]

Ok so she was home.

Was she home alone?

Have her actions since matched her words?

Words are easy. Especially ones of remorse when one is feeling alone, and less than the center of the universe for her spouse and her AP.

What I see from her is being sad over being caught. Not remorse. Like others said it's still all about her, and Let's rug sweep this whole mess.

What are you doing for you?

It seems you are stuck in some intense version of Limbo because she hasn't really committed to you one way or the other, and you have been content, or tolerant of the status quo. Nothing changes if things do not change.

Time for change.

She seems to finally be getting what I have been feeling the last couple weeks. She is constantly apologizing for hurting me so much and destroying all trust. She isn't questioning my snooping and has even said she knows exactly why I did everything I did and understands.

But, there she still has not shown complete remorse. She will say "there are no excuses for the terrible things I did to you, but... And then will go into our relationship". She says that in the last year, we have not been talking enough about deep emotional things and she needs that in a relationship. She says his is the main thing she wants to get out of the MC. I told her the first thing we need to get out of MC is the A and why it happened (it's not because we didn't have enough deep convos). She also dropped the line that she fell out of love with me at some point, but still "loves" me.

So it seems like she's coming along, but she's not really there yet. I've talked to one MC so far and didn't like the way he was talking, but two more are suppose to give me a call this week. I'm hoping to have an appointment set up by the end of th week or next week. I'm going to keep snooping around and stay viligant.

I'm not sure if this recent development is because she found out this POS OP is actually a DBag or if she is really seeing our mariage as something she wants. She claims she snapped out of it and realized she wants to be with me and be happy again. I found out yesterday that the POS has gambling problems and is looking at declaring bankruptcy. As happy as I am to see Karma biting this guy in the ass, I just hope that's not why she is starting to run back to me. The biggest thing is I don't want us to work things out, if she's just going to wait till she finds the next guy that she believes is better than me.

IUH

Before you get the why of the affair, which is her issues, don't you think she owes you a timeline of everything that happened so that you get to decide of you want to be married to anymore . You deserve to have a say in that decision and not find out six months or more into MC that there was a lot you did not know.

As far as snooping, still no offer to so anything to show you it is ended. No NC call, no NC e mail. Just permission for you to try to catch her if she decides to contact him.

Have you gotten to the VAR . Hope she does not know about that.

Like Tush Nurse just said IMO it's still " Lets just not talk about everything I did, let's move right to why" and bypass me having to tell you honestly what I did or did not do.

This is classic rugs weeping

So if she never told you about POS gambling problem, could she have just found that out Saturday when you were not home before she texted you.

You got it right. So far you are NOT anywhere out of woods yet no matter how many times she just says I am sorry.

Good decision on MC. They need to understand you need her pressed on what exactly happened, not only why.

I hope you read the threads that are out there on what you should expect and demand

If you do not get REMORSE unconditionally there will be a next guy or a rekindling of this guy

[This message edited by Badhurt at 2:55 PM, June 9th (Monday)]

Gambling problem? I hope he rolled snake eyes on this one.

They are right. You need to know what happened and she has to find out why ( not the no communication line as lots of people don't communicate yet don't have affairs) so you can determine your level of risk of a repeat performance. We weren't communicating to my satisfaction isn't a "why" any more than you wouldn't let me do sex act X would be if the tables were turned.

Flat out demand an accurate time line including approximate dates and numbers of contacts with The Gambler. You do not want Trickle Truth, and let her know that TT restarts the lack of trust clock every time it happens. That timeline will clue you in to signs of wandering if nothing else.

Tell her, as you did, you'll be happy to get to her issues, but you cannot simply ignore this affair which by sheer luck you prevented from reaching the next, and probably fatal, step. Deal with this crisis before you deal with the other problems. If she's seriously remorseful, she'll agree. Otherwise, you'll just teach her that the threat of A whips you into whatever shape she wants you in.

Love means never having to say I'm sorry is bullshit of romance books. She has to say it without the "but" for it to even sound sincere and I'd press that point home. Doesn't she realize that trust is gone and will take a very long time to reestablish? Read the threads here. Lies and lack of trust are the two big M killers. Maybe the MC can teach her that.

Are you satisfied with the course of action you took? It sure was tougher than you initially planned, wasn't it? I guess it's true that women respect men who respect themselves and take positive, decisive action.

She will say "there are no excuses for the terrible things I did to you, but... And then will go into our relationship". She says that in the last year, we have not been talking enough about deep emotional things and she needs that in a relationship.

You probably already realize that is no excuse in any way for someone to have an affair.

And I hope she is not using that as some valid reason to have an affair. She could have talked to you about that before having some kind of affair.

But would you have listened back then to something like that or brushed it off. Affairs can be very eye opening and awakening for both, sometimes in good ways and other times in bad ways.

While she is in this apologetic mood, you should have her answer all of your questions without any type of blameshifting on to you.

Did your wife tell you about this OM gambling problems and bankruptcy? If so, when did she find out about that...did she talk to him again?

The biggest thing is I don't want us to work things out, if she's just going to wait till she finds the next guy that she believes is better than me.

That is a common and valid worry. The BS feels like they are the best job at the moment until another and better one comes along. You can just tell your wife you are not playing games like that today or in the future.

This was certainly a quick turnabout in her mood and actions, which of course makes you wonder why the sudden change. Hopefully she is completely out of the fog and not just saying the right things.

Her sudden change tells me that she wasn't that deep into the A in the first place. She may have long-standing grievances, but she has to know that an A isn't a rational response. And she has to understand that her grievances are secondary to the fatal threat she posed to the M. This guy wasn't Dear Abby to her as nobody sends nude pics and sexts to Dear Abby. There will always be some predator she can tell " stuff" to. Any barfly knows that. Why she wanted to, and why she wanted to F him because of that "talent" of his is what she has to discover.

Hard to see what she told you or her recent behavior as anything but significant progress. She still blame shifting but there is even in what you describe as the beginnings of remorse.

It would be interesting to know the timeline around how she learned of the gambling problem and how you find out. There is probably useful stuff to learn about of the VAR.

Really you have managed this perfectly. You have took a firm line and that seems to have knocked some sense into her.

This is perfectly put:

The biggest thing is I don't want us to work things out, if she's just going to wait till she finds the next guy that she believes is better than me.

From the tone it seems like the intent to cheat actually preceded this affair. Getting to the bottom of that would be something to focus on in MC.

Sorry for the duplicate post.

[This message edited by redsox13 at 5:44 PM, June 9th (Monday)]

Your wife has done some things with this man and discussed things with this man that she absolutely still refuses to tell you.

Without that timeline that you can believe , how can you possibly give a damm why. Like some of the last few people who posted said, this forum is littered with stories of those who have had their lives destroyed by finding out this information later in false R.

Again , so far all you got is a lot more I am sorry and her permission to snoop. How nice of her

You are still in limbo,

Still no NC confirmation other than her word

Still blame shifting

Your gut still churning

Sorry I don't see all the great progress

[This message edited by Badhurt at 4:02 PM, June 9th (Monday)]

Let's hope that she is moving in a positive direction.

Remember---cool, calm, collected. That is the persona that you want to show her...no matter how difficult it is. You still haven't received an NC letter, and while it sounds like she wants to recommit to the marriage, she still hasn't declared it.

It is the difficulty of her releasing the last little bit of her "power" that she possessed during the affair. She is still trying to negotiate to a certain level. Just keep making it clear that while you WANT to go the counseling, and WANT to bring the spark back to the relationship, there are major obstacles that need to be addressed first and foremost. Personally, there is NO WAY that I would put my marital faults on the table until the affair has been addressed, readdressed, and then addressed some more---until I had a certain level of satisfaction that my WW would not take this path again in the future. And while I am sure that she has plenty of legitimate gripes about your participation in the marriage, she put those discussions way down the road with her actions.

That's just me, but the way that I would recommend counseling. You need to make the marriage look attractive, but not to the point of sacrificing the integrity of the marriage that should have always been there.

Hi IUH,

How has she been since your last post?

Has she made a NC phone call in front of you, or sent a NC email/letter, which you approve of, in front of you yet?

I hope so. You have told her that this is what you need to even consider R.

Words are cheap. Actions matter.

Things seem to be better. She has offered to give me a timeline of everything that has happened. I'm just trying to figure out what questions I need answered and how much detail I need/want. Assuming they did not do anything more than making out, how much do I want to know of what they were saying to each other and how graphic the images she sent were. I definitely want to know how often they talked and where/when. And if any other meet ups were planned and if they were planned after Mexico or in Mexico.

She still has not taken 100% of the blame by herself. She agrees it was all her when I say it, but she hasn't come out and said it by herself.

The NC email/phone call has not been made. I haven't pushed this as much as I have been advised to by this board. She sent one before and it basically did nothing, because she was still DEEP into fog and the A. I'm wondering if this break of all contact is the best course. I have been checking phone records, emails, VAR, and social media, and there hasn't been contact.

The other big thing is she is staying with "She's not sure if we will work out". She says she want a to got to MC and try and work on our communication and marriage, but she isn't sure.

I respond everytime with "I'm telling you that I'm not sure if this will work out, because of the lying, cheating, backstabbing, betrayal you have been doing".

Hoosier she is sorry.

Sorry she got caught.

It's your call but she is stringing you along bud.

The lack of respect is incredible.

That's just what I see here sorry.