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douchecanoes both of them.

Actually I would respond, if your custody/visitation is not set you have to PROTECT yourself if they try and bring up parental alienation.

DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT!!!!!

I would send a combination of the teaching your kids morals stuff and that it was disrespectful to bring his mistress to your parents home...

I would keep it neutral as merely a parenting lesson. I would highlight that their actions of trying to cause a confrontation in front of your DD will not be tolerated and you will call 911.

Check your parental "interference" laws if possible and reference that it is in the best interest of your kids that the gf not be present during pickup/drop off as it upsets the children as they need a "NEUTRAL" setting and that there are issues as COPARENTS you need to deal without interference from other parties.

You cannot control what he does once he leaves but at least you can control what happens during these trade offs.

Under normal circumstances, crickets should be a response, but no response can be construed as guilt and you want to get your version out in writing as you can reference to that if SHITSTAINS keep acting out. Look up into a no negative contact orders see if you can request one for her OR you can do drop offs at police station first times to make sure he knows your not messing around.

Dealing with NPD is tough because you have to watch your back because they could be scheming but not engage fully to give them ego boost.

Good luck- the EXnpd and new gffiancee are same way. She filed an order against me- and she was contacting me- will know on Thursday how it plays out.

Protect yourself and also keep a journal.

Actually I would respond, if your custody/visitation is not set you have to PROTECT yourself if they try and bring up parental alienation.

DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT!!!!!

I would send a combination of the teaching your kids morals stuff and that it was disrespectful to bring his mistress to your parents home...

I would keep it neutral as merely a parenting lesson. I would highlight that their actions of trying to cause a confrontation in front of your DD will not be tolerated and you will call 911.

Check your parental "interference" laws if possible and reference that it is in the best interest of your kids that the gf not be present during pickup/drop off as it upsets the children as they need a "NEUTRAL" setting and that there are issues as COPARENTS you need to deal without interference from other parties.

You cannot control what he does once he leaves but at least you can control what happens during these trade offs.

Under normal circumstances, crickets should be a response, but no response can be construed as guilt and you want to get your version out in writing as you can reference to that if SHITSTAINS keep acting out. Look up into a no negative contact orders see if you can request one for her OR you can do drop offs at police station first times to make sure he knows your not messing around.

I agree. Normally I would think crickets is the best response too, but in this case I'd want to respond for two reasons. 1) Having your own documentation that there is no parental alienation going on. 2)To counter the morality argument with his having brought his mistress to his mother's wife's home.

Don't give yourself permission for how you acted and don't let anyone else do it either. It is not ok to cause a scene like thks especially in front of children!

You expect and want your ex to put the kids first, yet are giving yourself permission to act this way because he did this. Well he probably gave himself permission to cheat because you did something he didn't like.

Be above reproach.

As for saying bad things about your ex and OW, even if you don't say them TO her, if she is around when you are on the phone or talking to other people it's not ok. This should be a legitimate concern. As far as threatening that he cannot bring someone for pick ups and drop offs, usually this doesn't fly. Unless they have threatened you and you have a RO I have rarely seen this enforced. And just remember one day you maybe married or with someone and they maybe with you on pick ups and drop offs.

Hummingbird8, I have to respectfully disagree. According to the law in our state, if you don't want someone on the property you put it in writing. So long as you have it in writing, that person can then be arrested for trespassing. If it's not in writing first, when you call the police, they will escort that person off the property, and at that time they are verbally informed, and a written form told not to trespass. If they show up a second time, they can then be arrested for trespassing. And it's pretty bold to assume Newlysingle talks about hello kitty or Gnat in front of the children. She doesn't talk about either one of them when either her toddler son or her daughter are there. She even says, "I can't talk about that subject right now."

And she is teaching her daughter that a it is not acceptable for a man's whore/mistress having the audacity to show her actual face to her or her family's home is not going to be tolerated. Those idjats were the one to provoke her not the other way around.

Both my X and Shrek know better than to do that shit to me. I've already put it in writing to both that Shrek will be arrested if she comes on the property. Simple. I control who can and cannot come to my home. And truth be told, on a real bad day, Shrek just might get the asswhoopin from me that her Mama should've given her for being a whore. So hope she doesn't ever try n disrespect me or my family on a bad day.

I agree with southsidecali.

I'd also add something along the lines that the more consistent negative lesson your children are getting when the Gnat shoves HK in their face is that people are easily replaceable and interchangeable. He's teaching them the lesson that they are not the priority, but rather his time with her is.

I agree with Stilllivin.

And she is teaching her daughter that a it is not acceptable for a man's whore/mistress having the audacity to show her actual face to her or her family's home is not going to be tolerated. Those idjats were the one to provoke her not the other way around.

Whether they tried to provoke her or not, she behaved in a way that scared her child. That is NOT ok. And sure she can say he can't bring OW on her property and he can say fine I will park on the public road and the child can be brought there. Is that what's best for the child?

She can't control her ex or OW so she needs to stop looking and caring about what they are doing. All she can control is her behavior.

She had a choice her daughter could've had the memory of dad bringing OW to moms house and mom acting classy and like OW didn't exist and how much class that took and made her daughter respect her. Instead the daughter was frightened and a witness to something she shouldn't have been.

Being cheated on does not give the BS a right to behave badly. In giving ourselves and each other permission to do the wrong thing we are no different than the WS. They gave themselves permission to cheat because of a perceived wrong.

Hummingbird I don't think you are intentionally trying to consistently insult Newlysingle but even I'm offended. You have managed to falsely accuse her for talking bad about her X and HK in front of the kids (to which I'm a personal witness that she totally does just the opposite), have insinuated she is a bad mother, and now it sounds like you are calling her classless. SHE is the victim. She has already adjusted fire by not going outside a second time when HK showed her face AGAIN. Personally classy or not, if HK had been Shrek I don't know if I would bother to call the police or beat her ass. I'd just make sure the kids weren't a witness to a second scene. And you're right she can't control her X or his whore, but she is perfectly within her right to say who can and cannot come on her property. Could she have remained calm and serene, bit that is hard as hell when you are taken by surprise. I think given the circumstances she did beautifully when that PIS showed up AGAIN with whore. Seriously who DOES that shit when they aren't setting you up for drama. I knew my X's daughter's mother didn't want me around during pick up and u didn't disrespect that. And I wasn't even an OW. HK was definitely looking for a cconfrontation that second time. FTR Newlysingle is an awesome mom and one of the most selfless moms I know. She has eaten Whore's cupcakes for DD even though it almost made her choke to do it. She has praised their father to them and never once even acted like she had a problem with HK. But this shit was just too much for her when she was shocked out of her shoes!!!

[This message edited by StillLivin at 11:30 AM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]

I agree with a minimal neutral response for documentation purposes, and to make it clear that she is not welcome on your property or your mother's property. If he decides to bring her, she'd better stay in the car and he'd better park in the street or the authorities will be called. What an ass.

Hope your talk with your DD went well. So sorry this happened.

I agree with stillLiven.

It is very hard to control yourself when being blindsided. What she did was not cool in front of the kids BUT she knew that and corrected it. She is human and she is hurt.

As for WH and HK, he should have known better. And that trick ass whore, knew what she was doing. This is about a game to her ass and you know what she is lucky she didn't do it to some others on this board or she may have had a foot up her ass or just knocked plain the fuck out. I am so tired of BS always having to take the high road. We didn't do this and why should we have to keep eating SHIT while others (whore) get to laugh at our hurt?

Now, I don't condone whippin some ass but sometimes you have to stand your ground and not coward down. This was a slap to her face and done on purpose and the BITCH had it coming.

She is NOT a bad mom because she was defending her home and her mothers home. How disrespectful of you to say that about her and not knowing everything. Her daughter may have been scared and "yes" that was wrong but she is going to talk to her daughter about it and admit she was wrong for doing that and that is integrity.

Also, her POS has no say in shit! What he has done is MUCH worse.... totting around a sleezy ass whore in front of his kids, what the fuck does that teach them?

Well said, StillLivin. I bit my tongue and sat on my fingers for that response because I couldn't think of a way to respond politely.

While Newlysingle could have handled things differently the first time out, she was caught by surprise on HER turf. It may have been upsetting for the children but it was precipitated by HK and the Gnat causing drama by him bringing her onto her mother's property in the first place. The only thing never reacting to something upsetting in front of the children will do is make them woefully unprepared for life which is full of drama and give them the idea that one must roll over and take blatant disrespect rather than stand up against it.

I definitely think this type of disrespect should be addressed at the moment it occurs. Should it have been less dramatic? Yes, it should have involved NS walking up and calmly telling the Gnat that future pickups on her turf should not be made with the whore that was involved with the break up of the family and that at the very least he could show the respect to her that he would show to a colleague by not rubbing a betrayal in her face. However, given the fact that she wasn't aware that HK was going to be there and she was surprised, she did what she did and it can't be undone. She did not repeat the actions and a verbal lashing for how she handled a past event isn't going to change it either.

I would much rather my children see me calling someone out for their blatant disrespect than letting someone walk all over me and teaching them, by example, that's how you handle being disrespected.

Newlysingle, After years of being held down by a control freak, you're just learning to have a voice and stand up for yourself. It will take time to control the emotions that come with that. Don't beat yourself up over handling things a little more dramatically than you could have. Start practicing for handling them better but do not let him bulldoze you into thinking you have to put up with his crap.

I really feel the need to address one more thing Hummingbird said:

They gave themselves permission to cheat because of a perceived wrong.

No. Just.... No.

Do WS's use the "well you did this wrong" excuse. Sure. It comes straight from the WS handbook.

But it is never really about a wrong done to them, perceived or otherwise. It is about something broken in them that makes them look for validation outside of the marriage.

Comparing an all-too normal reaction to a jacka$$ wayward bringing the ho around and pulling crap like this in front of the kids to the WS cheating is just.... well, wrong. No comparison. NONE.

Thanks tears you said it much better than I did.... I am just really right now! And feel bad NS!

Thanks again, everyone. I don't know what I would do without this group.

Hummingbird- I agree that what I did was not okay. I'm not for one second trying to say that it was. I made a mistake and allowed my emotions to overshadow my common sense. I was completely caught off guard though. Not only did this bitch travel 2,000 miles to make an appearance at my mother's house, but she even got out of the car! I've never even met her before. This was how he chose our first meeting to be. Additionally, this was not a short exchange. At home, I just hand the kids over and it's done. He has car seats, clothing, etc. for them. This time, I had to give him luggage, portable crib, two car seats, and a stroller. She stood outside of the car waiting for the shitstorm.

I think the thing that made me so angry was the fact that this was my mother's house. My mother has done a lot for both he and I over the years and has gone above and beyond as a grandma. While my XMIL loves my kids, she's just not a hands on grandma. Even the Gnat would tell you how great she's been. So for him to disrespect her on such a great level is disgusting. This whole situation has been really hard on her too and he knows that.

As StillLivin' said, she and I are friends outside of SI. We have met and talk on the phone frequently. She knows that I do not trash my X or the whore in front of the kids. I am very conscious of that.

I spoke with DD last night and apologized for my behavior at pick up. I said I was a hurt and angry, but said some things that I shouldn't have and that it wasn't okay. She seemed to accept that and then excitedly told me about the rides she went on at an amusement park. The interesting thing is that a bit later she said "Mom, sometimes you get mad at me when I do something wrong, but dad is always mad at me". I asked her why she thinks that. She said "Dad was mad and yelled at me a lot this weekend". I told her that I'm sure he really wasn't mad at her all weekend and maybe was just tired from the long trip here.

I think I can translate what happened though. Incident took place on Saturday. HK then spent the weekend badgering the Gnat for not standing up for her (he didn't because he's a spineless wimp) so she berated him until he sent that text on Monday. She is a controlling, domineering bitch and wears the pants (and the mustache) in that relationship. I bet he was stressed out all weekend because of her. The one comfort I have is that he has a lot of unpleasant years to look forward to with her.

[This message edited by newlysingle at 2:18 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]

Oh, and I haven't responded to him yet. When I do it will be very brief and business like. I'm just giving things a little time to settle down.

OMG Gemini! I'm dying at that photo!

NS Thank you for your reply. I'm glad you understood I wasn't implying anything and just said if you do talk in front of dd etc. I completely understand they were trying to provoke you and it sucks. I am glad you talked to your dd.

Being above reproach is the ideal. The thing is we are human and it is OK to not be the ideal all of the time.

I don't think it is my job as a parent to be perfect all of the time. Where is the learning in that for anyone?

I don't think we should all suddenly surrender to our base urges all of the time but I can guarantee a few words exchanged does not equate to surrendering to those base urges. As I said I would tire of it after about 20 times.

I do not want her anywhere near me. I get to choose that. Should she choose to ignore that she will get torn to shreds.

She is choosing the consequence.

Being cheated on does not give the BS a right to behave badly. In giving ourselves and each other permission to do the wrong thing we are no different than the WS. They gave themselves permission to cheat because of a perceived wrong.

I agree it does not give a BS the right to behave badly but nor does it require us to be saints 100% of the time. Some of us may be but others weren't given wings at birth.

Does anyone wonder how DD felt about the whore invading her and her mums space? Just because something overtly confrontational didn't occur doesn't mean there wasn't a confrontation. What of the violent act that something like this is? It is a violation. You want mummy dear to smile sweetly and not react to a violation? Anything other than that is not 'classy'. I find that offensive because the intent was to cause offence.

I could not disagree more with this comparison. This is a reaction - not compartmentalisation. I don't think it's OK for me to go to the whores home and cause a confrontation. I will absolutely react if the confrontation is brought to me. Of that I have zero doubt.

It is old fashioned victim blaming and occurs in all areas of our life. That is an example of compartmenting that is comparable here.

None of us want our children impacted by this shit but the brutal truth is they are. Whether we react or not. No reaction could leave underlying issues uncovered. This is an opportunity for a discussion and a firming up of boundaries on all sides. Not an opportunity to 2x4 someone for being human and reacting.

Do I want to have to confront the whore? No. Not one bit. It is as distasteful to me as it is to most. But will I? Yes indeed.

[This message edited by SBB at 9:49 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]

I agree it does not give a BS the right to behave badly but nor does it require us to be saints 100% of the time. Some of us may be but others weren't given wings at birth.

Exactly. I think yelling, throwing things, etc. would be the more natural reaction, actually. I think anyone whose first sight of OW is in this situation, and yet manages to behave circumspectly, probably has an exceptional degree of self restraint.

I had my mom retrieve the kids ..... My mom said HK...... wouldn't look at her at all! My mom was disappointed as she wanted a better look at HK's mustache.

I trust that your mom politely explained this to Hello Kitty, as well.....

[This message edited by Cally60 at 8:33 PM, July 22nd (Tuesday)]

1000% agree with SBB! Bring that shit to MY door and expect me to smile and take it? Oh HELL naw! I'd be all up on that bitch ass hoe. It would take the whole police force AND swat team to pull me off a trifling bitch who encroached on my territory. Yeah, the only high road I'd be taking is the one that I could tie her to the back of my car and drag her down. Just sayin'...