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In a recent post I was disgusted by ex' demand that our 3 DD's go to a therapy appointment with him so he can explain to them that he was unfaithful because he is recovering sex addict. They did not want to go and he tried to convince me it was going to "exhonorate" me for my angry behavior towards him. "See they will now understand why you were so angry! Why do you have a problem with this"?

In the meantime he is pressuring the girls because this is important for them to know what happened in the marriage! His true agenda comes out when they do not want to go.."Well girls this is really important for my healing"!!!!

I get a call from his therapist, the first contact ever after 4 years of treating him. This batshit crazy woman tells me that my daughters have to know about their father's sex addiction or they are in danger of becoming a sex addict or marrying one! She tells me that it is important that the ex speaks his truth! If I don't allow them to come to a meeting she will encourage him to tell them himself about his sex addiction.

She asks if I read the letter he wrote (another thread)in which he states that he came back from treatment in 2010 and began his process of recovery. I asked if she was aware he only made it 2 days before he was in a porn shop and was seeing hookers within a month? Thank you Mr. PI for that info.

The batshit crazy therapist began to sputter. "You mean he has acted out? Do you think he is now?" Lady I could care less what he is doing now. The confessional is closed.

[This message edited by risingfromashes at 6:23 AM, August 7th (Thursday)]

I would block her number. Are you sure she's really even a therapist and he didn't get some batshit crazy whore to call you? It seems to me that this is more selfish bullshit on his part and she's feeding right into it. Nobody really cares about the effect on his daughters, they only care about him and how it affects him.

I'm pretty sure a meeting in the therapist's office while Daddy reads a letter all about his sexual issues is likely to cause serious emotional trauma to your daughters if they don't already have some. And since they stood up for themselves about all this shit, it sounds like so far they are pretty well adjusted. I would tell him to leave the girls out of his issues and that any calls from his "therapist" are unwelcome and would be considered harrassment in the future.

It validates the argument that sex addicts are among the best liars on the planet. However, she must be a truly terrible therapist to, 1) have been fooled by him for 4 years and 2) accepted that letter as an "amends" letter.

I did insist that my SAFWH tell my sons about his addiction, especially in light of DS's alcoholism. Not the gory details. Just the bare facts and that he was in a recovery program. He took full responsibility for his actions and my pain. Because of my FOO, I believe strongly that secrets are often more damaging than carefully delivered truth. However, in the case of your X, still acting out, still in his addiction, it seems that you, wise mother that you are, should be the one to tell your daughters as much as you think they need to know. Whether he ever gets sober or not is not their problem or yours, but they should know what to watch out for.

[This message edited by scaredyKat at 3:06 PM, August 6th (Wednesday)]

She asks if I read the letter he wrote (another thread)in which he states that he came back from treatment in 2010 and began his process of recovery. I asked if she was aware he only made it 2 days before he was in a porn shop and was seeing hookers within a month? Thank you Mr. PI for that info.

The batshit crazy therapist began to sputter. "You mean he has acted out? Do you think he is now?"

My X fooled a CSAT. They are terrific liars. I doubt he kept seeing her, though. But Four Years??? Wow. Sputter away, Woman. As far as whether he's acting out now? Yeah, not any of your concern, but .... can't she do the math??

Sorry, this is such a messed up situation. I'm glad your girls have you in their lives. My X never entered recovery, fake or not, and is firmly in denial that anything he does is wrong. Delusional! My fear isn't that he will tell the children he's SA; it's that he will convince my sons to follow in his footsteps.

All of this dirty, secret crap that they do makes for a lot of landmines for our children.

Wow, I would NOT go for that at all.

One of the first questions I asked a CSAT was "how do I know if my husband is telling you the whole truth?"

And they said, "You just have to trust the process. A CSAT is supposed to be able to tell when the addict is lying and minimizing."

I guess some CSATs are just not very good at it.

Mine had a great CSAT (a recovering SA himself). However, he couldn't pull the wool over his eyes so he stopped going and found a traditional therapist where he could lie, lie, lie, lie, lie.

Therapists who treat SAs need to treat them like addicts. The key hallmark of all addiction is lying. Addicts lie - to their family, their friends, employers, doctors, and most of themselves.

If I don't allow them to come to a meeting

Wow. Just wow. *smh* He quite obviously told the CSAT that you are the reason the girls didn't attend his session. Does she not realize that 2 of those girls are of majority age (IIRC) and that you really cannot *make* them do anything?

You know, I can somewhat forgive normal IC's for having the IC bias towards their client (of course the person is working on him/herself and will tell me the truth -- the person wouldn't be in my office otherwise).....but a CSAT? Seriously????

A CSAT is supposed to be able to tell when the addict is lying

Yea, that's an easy one -- the addict's lips are moving.

"You mean he has acted out?

Oh, SHOCKER!

Do you think he is now?"

omg. This is so ridiculous that it's making me laugh. She's been seeing your ex for 4 years and is so confident in his recovery that she calls to badger YOU about the non-attendance of your daughters, but then ends up having to ask you about his current behavior? That's just grand.

Sucks to be her right now, I'll bet she's feeling like an idiot.

Oh yes, the good old CSAT/SA/Secrets stuff.

I've had dealings with three people who claimed to be CSATs. One is a wacky sixty-something new-age woman who runs her practice in an office with glass walls, INSIDE a paper company, inside a suburban strip mall. Her favorite trick is holding up big posters with Patrick Carnes' "Steps" printed on them. It was lots of fun visiting her with all the paper company people walking by and staring in and smirking as I told her the details of EX's CraigsList S&M issues while she kept asking me if I believed in "magical thinking" and telling me that all spouses are "co-addicts."

The other was a smart man, on television every now and then, and actually is a psychologist, but pretty skeptical about recovery for SAs. "Less than a 3 percent recovery rate," he likes to say, "and only for those with no comorbidity (NPD, BPD, Aspergers, OCD, etc.)."

And the third, the molested gay priest turned CSAT who believed my ex's lies for several years. Ex used to blow off his appointments, and this guy would send him emails telling Ex he was "special" and pleading for him to come back.

It's all a con game. I'm so glad I'm out of it.

Rising, I hope this woman goes away now.

omg. This is so ridiculous that it's making me laugh. She's been seeing your ex for 4 years and is so confident in his recovery that she calls to badger YOU about the non-attendance of your daughters, but then ends up having to ask you about his current behavior? That's just grand.

Sucks to be her right now, I'll bet she's feeling like an idiot.

^^^This.

But she's probably getting paid to listen to his lies! That's more than the rest of us got!

She asks if I read the letter he wrote (another thread)in which he states that he came back from treatment in 2010 and began his process of recovery. I asked if she was aware he only made it 2 days before he was in a porn shop and was seeing hookers within a month? Thank you Mr. PI for that info.

The batshit crazy therapist began to sputter. "You mean he has acted out? Do you think he is now?" Lady I could care less what he is doing now. The confessional is closed.

I have been amazed at how gullible some therapists are. My first MC told me I should make a leap of faith, my husband is remorseful, ended the affair and wants to work toward R. I should work toward it also. I told her I don't believe he ended the affair.

DD2 I went back to the therapist and he admitted to her that the entire time we were in MC he was continuing the affair. She was SHOCKED! OMG he LIED to her!!!

He then went to IC for his alcoholism and the IC asked to talk to me and the way she treated me and the questions she asked made me believe that she was also manipulated by my husband. I told her, "You do realize he is an alcoholic and a liar. I can guarantee that probably 90% of what he told you is a lie."

AND I WAS RIGHT! He was still drinking.

You would think these counselors would take everything being said with a grain of salt...but they seem to be manipulated just as easily as everybody else. We only had one MC that couldn't be manipulated and my husband refused to see him again after a few sessions.

I really don't think your kids need to hear the gritty details. All he needs to say to the kids is, "I have done some very bad things and hurt your mother greatly. She has every right to be angry with me. The things I have done are unforgivable."

Lawyers, judges, magistrates, therapists, they're all flawed people just like everybody else. God help us all.

You'd think at least a therapist would have a good bullshit detector, but maybe that's just the good therapists.

she needs therapy

Thank you for the validation. I know this proposed meeting is inappropriate but I feel uneasy when the "keeping secrets" issue comes up. Yes, secrets are toxic but so is a confession of sins in an attempt to "explain" away terrible behavior!

They know that he cheated and was verbally abusive etc. Do they need to know about the poor poor man's addictive personality issues? Will it really save them from a life of sex addition?

Complete and utter self-serving narcissistic pity-party bullshit! And he has finally found someone more than happy to take huge chunks of his $$$ to help dry away his tears and encourage the insanity.

If he tells them this they will not react with love and a new understanding. It could be the nail in the coffin.

It validates the argument that sex addicts are among the best liars on the planet. However, she must be a truly terrible therapist to, 1) have been fooled by him for 4 years and 2) accepted that letter as an "amends" letter

.

She supposedly helped him write this letter and she is well known Csat. She lectures on the same venue as Patrick Carnes.

I really don't think your kids need to hear the gritty details. All he needs to say to the kids is, "I have done some very bad things and hurt your mother greatly. She has every right to be angry with me. The things I have done are unforgivable."

This is along the lines of what I'm thinking. However, I do think that it is worth YOU having a conversation with your children BY YOURSELF about some of the specifics. And honestly, you probably should do it sooner rather than later, because I bet your ex is going to find a moment to spill his guts to your girls and totally traumatize them. God knows if my ex told my kids what he was all about they would never get over it, I can only assume any other child of a bonafide sex addict would also be similarly traumatized.

Good therapists help people with their issues. They should not be making judgements and speaking with other family members on behalf of their clients. That is the client's responsibility. Everything that is said in a session should be taken with a grain of salt, for any person, not just SAs. What we say in IC is said through our own lens, so it is always tainted by our emotions/issues. If this therapist is taking your X's statements as absolute reality, then she is about as useful/helpful a therapist as underwear in a snow storm.

Notice all these fooled therapists are women dealing with male sex addicts? What's up with that?

Even in non-SA's "my therapist said so" is a common lie. My XWH absolutely delighted in telling me the most painful, horrible, cruel things all prefaced with "my therapist said".

I know this proposed meeting is inappropriate but I feel uneasy when the "keeping secrets" issue comes up. Yes, secrets are toxic but so is a confession of sins in an attempt to "explain" away terrible behavior!

It seems to me that the addict who's been lying to his therapist shouldn't be driving the "truth" bus. He's got another agenda. I agree the CSAT shouldn't be calling you and shouldn't be trying to force the involvement of the children. Maybe her image of her "CSAT" work is getting ahead of reality for her.

I feel sorry for the woman CSAT my X was able to fool. Not all CSATs are going to be good at it. I've also known several wonderfully gifted CSATs who do get it, and they've helped me through the worst part of my life.

One of my children knows a bit about the sex addiction. The other two just know what they've seen and that there was a lot of cheating. They know that I have learned a lot in my reading and therapy over the years, and they know they can come to me with questions. But I'm not taking it to them. They know there's a problem. I suspect each of them will come to wanting to know more as their own lives and relationships unfold.

I don't have any advice because I think you are already handling it beautifully! You are there for your girls and they know it. Sorry your ex is being an ASS. Sorry the CSAT went along with it. You keep doing the good work you are doing!

I'd be really skeptical of anybody who claimed to be a sex addiction therapist. There's a good reason it isn't included in the DSM-5. It's a bullshit diagnosis. This type of sexual acting out doesn't even fit into the clinical diagnosis for addiction. It's nothing more than a lame excuse for lame people to justify their bad behavior.