SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm so thankful for this site. It is my safe harbor, where I can post my anguish and people "get it".

If I've gotten 2x4's and honestly, I dont think I have, it was only for my benefit.

I wish I had found SI sooner than I did. Would've saved me a lot of heartache.

Thank you to all who were there for me when I needed a friend.

It's funny because this is the least cliqueish board I have ever posted on. I think our experiences and perspectives drive those beliefs.

Actually, I think that "Not Divorcing" is a valid 3rd option, especially soon after dday.

Agree 100%. I think the "Not Divorcing" stage is pretty important actually.

Just from what I've learned from SI, I think there needs to be at least an emotional "separation" period. If monogamy was promised, obviously infidelity wasn't part of what the BS signed up for in the relationship.. So for me, D-Day ends any type of promises that were made.

There is A LOT of healing that has to happen, for everyone that's been affected.. (Thanks for having a forum for all the stages we need help with mods!)

Given my situation, I think I'm pretty impatient with unremorseful spouses, picking apart their words. But D-Day is traumatic, and the WS needs to be given some time to go get their shit together.

I wish they would all stay with family, go to counseling, confess their sins to friends and family and realize the consequences of their next actions.

And the BS has to try to pull it together too, remember that this was NOT their fault, and survive the hell of physical and emotional trauma we go through, all while keeping it together with work or kids or anything else they might have going on in their lives, too.

From one of my favorite Law and Order: SVU episodes, Detective Olivia Benson to rape victim, Harper Anderson, who is reluctant to identify and testify against the man who raped her. Harper claimed she doesn't need or want any help anymore, saying "Because I've already made peace with what's happened to me. I already did the one-on-one therapy, the yoga, I cut my hair, I lit a candle and guess what? - I'm over it!" Then later:

Benson: And you are obviously not fine!

Harper: Who are you to tell me that I am not fine?!

Benson: Because closure is a myth. I've heard survivors. That survivor stuff is crap. I've heard them say, this is something you never get over.

Harper: I have!

Benson: You think you're back to normal? Then tell me, when was the last time you slept in your bed without wearing running shoes? The truth is, everybody changes every day. And some things are more devastating than others, but we never are the same. There are two ways to deal with these changes. You either accept them, or fight them like hell all the way.

Infidelity changes us, whether we like it or not. We are never the same. I feel better than I did 2 years ago, but none of us, R or D, can be sure we are gonna get "happily ever after" now.. Life keeps changing..

-

I also wanted to add that maybe the F&G section I do feel left out of, but really, I got the invitation, and I've been too busy to make it.

I should go back there more often if Jrazz is there. Thanks for the invite girl!

PS- Moo, my bday is December 25th, 1777; DS7's is January 1st, 1472, and DS10's is April Fools' Day, born last year . I expect cupcakes and party balloons. Just FYI for your records

[This message edited by ButterflyGirl at 12:50 PM, September 5th (Friday)]

I didn't know there was a Fun and Games section until I was here for three years...

Butterflygirl - that quote is great from SVU...

I should go back there more often if Jrazz is there.

Get your sass gloves on cause it is DEEP in there!

I personally think that if members leave SI, it's either becuase they've rugswept (and will be back),fully R'd and have moved onto bigger and better things, or they divorced and moved on to bigger and better things.

I haven't experienced any of the cliq's; I did hear through both of my stbx's A's a lot of stuff that I wasn't ready to process immediately. I think there was only one comment in the past 4 years that I felt had zero to do with whatever I was posting about, or was out of bounds. With that aside, there were a half dozen times when the kind members who had been trying to gently 2x4 me to my senses had to resort to using 2x12's and iron skillets!

Either way, thanks SI and all the members who've put up with my rambling sometimes borderline lunatic vents and giving advice. Hoping to be able to pay it forward more as time goes by.

I deleted my post because it just did not come out sounding the way I wanted.

[This message edited by Bobbi_sue at 2:28 PM, September 5th (Friday)]

I'm not defensive at all. I'm simply explaining the process. You are the one who made the assumption that you were left out because you aren't in a clique.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 2:24 PM, September 5th (Friday)]

Aubrie, I was hoping you would not see that post. I have a different definition of clique in my head than what was posted here. Even back in high school when there were cliques, most often leaving someone out was not intentional, nor were the members necessarily unfriendly to those outside the clique. That's just my view but I don't want to debate it. I accept other views.

have been a member of this forum for over 8 years and I do feel there are cliques. Anyone else who has been here more than a couple of years, and does not feel this way, is probably in a comfortable clique and would not recognize this.

I've been here for ...I'm not positive, but darn close to as long as you. I'm pretty astute, and am here almost every day. I just don't see this. I guess I'm oblivious, because I have never felt the unwelcomeness that is the hallmark of cliqueishness. Do I see that some people have IRL friendships? Of course. Just as in my RL, I have friends whose friendships extend to groups that may not include me--not because I'm unwelcome, or because they've formed a clique-but because they have a connection I do not.

I honestly cannot identify a clique here. I certainly do not feel as though I am so comfortably ensconced in one that I remain oblivious. If anything, I think those who have strong SI relationships are invested and contribute a great deal to the community as a whole. I see nothing exclusionary in the manner in which support is offered.

[This message edited by solus sto at 4:21 PM, September 5th (Friday)]

A clique – IDK I see some members who seem to identify with each other in some way form friendships, but I can’t think of anything I’ve seen as a clique. Some people might take a harsher tact than I would but hell I’ve been wrong enough to know that it takes all kinds to make the world go round.

There was one poster I really got a lot out of her posts. I’m pretty sure we were 180 degrees opposed on most things, but the depth of her introspection and questions helped me look inward in positive ways and work through things I may never had considered. And while I disagreed with her it was easy for me to respect her posting because it was not done to attack and it was meant to open dialogue. I was really upset when she was banned. But she was banned for guideline infractions and blatant mod disrespect arguing on the thread with the mods. I miss her posts, but I understand.

A few things struck me reading here that I think are really appropriate on this thread. I have not seen these (or at least not stressed enough).

First - take what you need, leave the rest. There is some “views” held by the overwhelming majority of those who post. I don’t always agree but mostly do. I remember early on getting a PM from the high priest of SI reminding me of it (sure would like to meet her and her H some day). While everyone has been through very similar trauma and all, each person and each marriage is unique - take what you need, leave the rest.

Second – pay it forward. When you can post on someone’s thread to give support just because you want to help. Sometimes it is “I hear you” just to let the person know they are not alone. Many of us have been in that place – feeling isolated and completely alone because the A is all we can focus on and we have no one IRL to talk to about it.

Last – if it stings it’s worth looking at. Sometimes a response just hurts. Almost always the people who take the time to respond and help here really do want to help. I’m not saying just because it hurts it is right, but if it hurts there is something to it that is worth looking at, whether there is some truth to it or it just hits at something that if explored might just help you.

Just want to end with a big thank you to SI.

posting as a linguist.

I think that the connotation of the word clique is different for different people. Depending on the emotional charge the word brings, it greatly weighs in on how you feel about the actual definition of the word and how it is being used.

I definitely "know" some people here because we joined at the same time or something in their story resonated with me. I have never been to a G2G. I sporadically go into F&G.

Whoever said that many of us bring baggage of feeling left out to this I think is spot on. I have had times where I felt "left out" and had to shake myself and say "hey, this is coming from you and not from the SI peeps." There are just days where my needs are not being met, I come here and that seems to get reinforced..... And then I can log in the next morning and feel warm and fuzzy because someone said the right thing or there was another hug. It is me. Not the board.

Bobbie_Sue. If I had a clique, I would count you in it. I recognize you and your voice and a good deal of your story because there are elements in common with mine. See? again, about me.

I see the people I most care about here, always always stepping up to say sorry, or to promise that there is a way to get better more helpful responses or that there is a way to get mod help or to say maybe I messed up and I can do better. Some of my favorite people are funny. Some swing a 2x4 and that makes me vaguely uncomfortable and appreciative because that is not my comfort zone so I am happy they can do it. I collect the stories of the new members who remind me of me and I want so badly to nurture and reassure. These are my newest favorite people. I celebrate when they are funny and begin to heal.

I try to find the low posts before I log out. Any post that says HElP. Because I think pay it forward is a big part of this site.

I know that at one point coming to this site was just too painful. I was going through my own angst and to read about other people and their problems was just too much.

But I have to tell you...the information you get here is invaluable! I think the collective minds in these forums are better than any therapist I have ever talked to.

I remember when I first arrived I was desperate to "save" my marriage. I hurt so much and all I wanted was advice on how to make my WH become remorseful.

He couldn't, wouldn't.

I was wretched with the agony of it all. I spent years in the General and R forum hoping, hoping, waiting, wanting, hurting.

I ventured into S/D and got scared big time. I didn't want to hear it. I wasn't ready.

I spent many months lurking, reading, ashamed of what a fool I was. I "left" for months at a time because I was too ashamed to post anything about my situation.

Finally, I gave up hope. It happened at home, not here on the boards. WH was never remorseful and never quit cheating on me. False R was a REAL THING finally to me. That it was FALSE.

I got so much advice and 2x4s I didn't want to hear. But finally I was able to accept reality.

I am finally healing, I've come to appreciate how much time and energy people have put into helping me heal. I'm finally at a place where I can come and read in General or JFO and not go into a tailspin of PTSD.

Not all options are available to everyone. R may never be on the table. You might want it really bad but all you are gonna get is False R.

I really wanted R. Being told "honey, you are fooling yourself" was super hard to hear. But it was the truth. Finally I knew it.

I never felt ganged up on or excluded.

I do remember one thread that triggered some serious indignation in me and I posted some strong opinions. I got an angry PM. I've never forgotten and try to do better and to write only from my own experience and from a kind heart, not an angry one.

because I have never felt the unwelcomeness that is the hallmark of cliqueishness.

This is where definitions of the word differ, at least in my head. Whether IRL or on a forum, I considered cliques to be the "in group" not a group that makes people feel unwelcome, but a group where somehow a more natural selection determines who is "in" the group. I guess I don't see the word as negative as some do, and have never resented anyone even if I thought they were part of a clique, nor have I felt I was unwelcome or intentionally excluded from anything, especially on this forum.

This topic has gotten so far off and is actually making me feel very negative, and I feel even worse for newer members who feel there are cliques but are told there is something WRONG WITH THEM if they feel there are cliques. They are bringing in too much baggage and are insecure. How about saying you don't feel there are cliques and acknowledging their feelings and thoughts instead of making them feel worse?

I must be "insecure." Actually in spite of reading this negative fact about myself, I guess I will still continue to feel as secure as I ever have. I have decided long ago that I'd rather be me, with my opinions that often differ from "collective wisdom." (And this is actually a sign of security, not insecurity).

I do NOT feel the reason I am sometimes forgotten by more popular members is because of intentional exclusion. I feel it is due to my own choices not to participate in the same types of ways in the same types of forums on SI. It makes me less popular and I am okay and SECURE about that. If I was that worried about being popular on SI I don't think I would still be here after 8 years. So for me this is not "why I left" because I obviously have not left!

But for me, I guess I'd have to go back and read the original post to be sure what this topic was supposed to be about. Really, members leave for many reasons. Some get bored. Some don't need it any more. Maybe this was just "not their thing." Some reconcile or divorce and move on. Some just don't have time for it. And some probably find it to be negative and feel excluded at times. If people want to leave, let them leave, and for the most part there is no need to worry about it.

Actually, I did reconcile and "moved on" but have enjoyed some aspects of the forum very much and I like that, on occasion, I can help somebody think about something in a different way, or help somebody with something I say. Recently, I have had my own issue that I posted about (it is ongoing; my DS's wife is cheating on him). While I didn't get pages and pages of responses like I believe some members would just naturally get because they are more naturally popular, I did appreciate each and every person who offered a hug or thoughts on it, even if I didn't agree with what they said or it was advice where I would have to take what I need and leave the rest.

***As a member***

BobbieSue....

Another reason I've never been accepted into a clique is because I rarely visit the Fun and Games forum. That may be why nobody has ever hosted a "5000+ posts party" for me or anything like that

So because you don't venture into the forum that specifically hosts the post parties, you're surprised that those that do have one dedicated to them? That's like turning down an invitation to a party and then getting mad at the hostess for still having the party without you.

Moo and a few others explained how the post parties work and instead of acknowledging them and thanking them for their explanation you chose to continue to try and make others feel bad for making friends here.

I have a different definition of clique in my head than what was posted here

Then your definition is wrong. You can't decide to re-write the Merriam Webster's definition because you don't like it and it doesn't fit your agenda.

Long before you arrived here we had a true clique. A fairly large group of women and men that ganged up and humiliated any member they felt they could. They harassed them, belittled them and scared many people away. THAT is why we have guidelines in place now...so that never happens again.

Friendships form, it's a natural thing to have happen...people gravitate towards others and some run in the opposite direction of others.

I have met some incredible people on here, many that have been to our home and are now life long friends. I'm sorry you haven't found that here...I personally think you're missing out on a lot of fun.

*typo

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:33 PM, September 6th (Saturday)]

In response to DS:

Then your definition is wrong. You can't decide to re-write the Merriam Webster's definition because you don't like it and it doesn't fit your agenda.

According to Dictionary.com at http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Clique

a small, exclusive group of people; coterie; set.

(I don’t think I made up my own definition and I do think there is a possibility for different interpretations; I am not saying your definition or anyone else's is wrong either).

DS:

Moo and a few others explained how the post parties work and instead of acknowledging them and thanking them for their explanation you chose to continue to try and make others feel bad for making friends here.

I guess I fail to see where I tried to make anyone feel bad for making friends here. I only suggested that a little understanding or compassion and acknowledgement for their feelings (even if not agreeing that cliques exist) might be warranted for those who have stated they felt left out. That didn’t start with me. Somebody else started the whole conversation about “cliques.”

Thank you MOO and whomever might be responsible for post parties and other hard work you do for this forum. I do think I made it clear that I fully understood I would not be as well known and I gave my reasons why: I rarely visit the Fun and Games forum, for one reason. I also said this was my choice and that for the most part, my own choices are responsible for the connections I make on the forum. And make no mistake I have made many good friends on the forum, some who I do keep in contact with outside the forum.

I do thank everyone who has made this forum possible and all those who volunteer their time. I have said many times before and I will repeat it now. This is the best format for a discussion forum I have ever experienced. I like the design and the ease of use in every way. And I do agree that trolls and problems are kept to a minimum and I do see the difference, as compared to other forums. I realize that takes work. So thank you, even if we sometimes disagree on some things.

People feel left out. That's a fact, whatever you want to call it. I've left SI quite a few times (without the "final goodbye") because of feeling like that.

Is it accurate? I don't know. Could be from issues I have stemming from FOO and the As. I don't know, I try to examine it and I'm so confused.

I do know that often I post and get no acknowledgement. So I just tell myself that it happens to everyone. Maybe just as often and I'm being sensitive.

So, I try to play devil's advocate in my head.

I do know someone tried to throw me one of those post parties- once. I think it was for 10,000. I was the only one that replied. I do post in F&G occasionally but honestly, it does seem like I'm the lame kid making jokes that fall flat at my feet.

Again, who knows...that darn perception thing. But it does hurt and I do often feel on the outside of things. At different points I had to leave because of how it hurt. But I come back because I have no place else to relieve some of my feelings. Not to MrH, not to "friends".

It's a dual edged sword.

(Disclaimer: I fully acknowledge my feelings may not be reality. They just feel darn real.)

Then your definition is wrong. You can't decide to re-write the Merriam Webster's definition because you don't like it and it doesn't fit your agenda

Actually Deeply Scared language is fluid and it's interpretation is based on numerous factors, quoting lines from a dictionary is about as useless as throwing around unquantified statistics.

I believe that all Bobbie Sue was saying was that when members DO admit to feeling left out we should acknowledge their feelings instead of getting defensive and making them believe that the problem is all theirs which I believe to be very sage advice; a few people have come forward now stating they've felt left out at times.

. Moo and a few others explained how the post parties work and instead of acknowledging them and thanking them for their explanation you chose to continue to try and make others feel bad for making friends here.

No one is trying to make anyone feel bad about forming friendships Deeply Scared although your childish response is exactly the sort of post I had in mind when I started this topic as the type that scares people away.

edited to fix the way the quotes were displayed

[This message edited by nolight at 5:28 PM, September 6th (Saturday)]

No one is trying to make anyone feel bad about forming friendships Deeply Scared although your childish response is exactly the sort of post I had in mind when I started this topic as the type that scares people away

.

I'm not sure what's childish about my post, but as you said...

language is fluid and it's interpretation is based on numerous factors

You're right

I was posting as a member, thanks for putting me in my place I think it's really funny that you wait all this time to come in and attack me. But if that's what you felt you needed to do, so be it

[This message edited by SI Staff at 5:49 PM, September 6th (Saturday)]