SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

what I saw on the JFO board was another poster calling a BH's wife some overly nasty things.

When you (General Term) see something like this, please bring it to a Mods attention. We do our best, but don't catch everything

I am a new member (still don't know if my H is a WH), and did have to leave SI because it was making me see infidelity EVERYWHERE. I couldn't stay off long, though :)

I am still struggling with my own situation. Interestingly, a veteran SIer pmed me with some very supportive advice and thoughts about my struggles, yet some of his posts to others sometimes make my jaw drop. Guessing that he is posting from experience to those posters and to me from general knowledge based on the facts I have laid out in my own situation??

Don't yet feel I can offer advice, except in the most general sense, but I am so grateful to have found you all.

This is a great thread.....I kind of forgot about .

Interestingly, a veteran SIer pmed me with some very supportive advice and thoughts about my struggles, yet some of his posts to others sometimes make my jaw drop. Guessing that he is posting from experience to those posters and to me from general knowledge based on the facts I have laid out in my own situation??it.

This happens frequently, I think. We tend to cater our message to the audience we're addressing.

A BH at 1 month past DDAY is going to probably need to hear different things in a different way than someone 2 years into authentic reconciliation.

Some poor bastard who finds this site through tear-filled eyes, desperately trying to figure out what he could've done differently to keep his wife from cheating (because, of course, she told him it was his fault) may be in a place where he needs to be told , "Hey man, it sounds like you're wife has been acting like a <harlot>, and if she's trying to pin this on you, she needs to go <fornicate> herself." He needs to get angry, probably, in order to work up the courage to establish some boundaries.

Most of us have been there, and I think that's where that kind of "tough talk" comes into play. We try to give people what we think we needed to hear at that point.

I joined SI not long after D-Day, in shock, desperate, and deluded as my XW flaunted her affair in my face and slowly tore my and my children's world apart. She was a classic WS--everything a page from the Cheater's Handbook. And I was in a classic BS fog.

All I wanted at the time was for everyone to tell me what I wanted to hear--that what was happening was not really happening. But they didn't. And I was furious, many many times for them not doing this. I left SI for a week here, a week there. I was in denial. If I didn't listen to the 2x4s, then they really weren't being hurled.

But I always came back. And was smacked again. And again. For eight long months before I found my strength and faced my reality; I filed.

Very few posts offended me. They angered me, but 90% of the time it was because they were right. And the 10%? Well, it took me awhile, but I was eventually able to really practice the mantra, "Take what you want and leave the rest."

The reason why I kept returning--and why I still do--is simple: everyone here Gets It. I love my therapist, my brother, my friends. They helped me through all this and still do. But still...they don't quite understand the way SI does.

I can't count myself as one of those who say, "I wish I'd found SI so much earlier, when D-Day happened." I found it immediately. But like so many others here, I had to make my decisions on my own time. The BS fog is powerful stuff. Eight months, for whatever reason, was the time I had to spend in Hell. For some it is less, for others, more. I do my best not to judge--though it is very hard not to scream at my screen when I read stories that closely mirror mine, just as so many here screamed at me when I was doing what they did and in hindsight were prolonging their agony.

Again, for me, SI is all about understanding--not agreeing. It's a microcosm of many lives, many situations, many personalities. Not everyone will agree, not everyone will have the same style. But what is paramount is the shared experience.

Thanks to everyone, always.

[This message edited by Abbondad at 3:19 PM, September 4th (Thursday)]

Safe. I post here because I feel safe. I try to help others because it makes ME feel good. Sometimes I do or say the wrong thing, but it is never intentional. Yes, there are cliques but it's inevitable ...people join around the same time, their stories are similar, there are lots of reasons. The older SIer's are the ones who we look up to the most. They've seen it all.

If we are harsh it's because we are hurting and, sometimes, the subject matter hits a nerve. I do believe some people leave because they do not need this site any longer. Maybe they have healed, maybe they moved forward enough that they don't need the encouragement and maybe the people here (SIer's) have done their job and done it well.

I know there are times when I have to stay away from here because it can trigger me. I am sure I'm not the only one.

I hope that I can repay, in kindness, what you all have done for me. Thank You.

All I wanted at the time was for everyone to tell me what I wanted to hear--that what was happening was not really happening.

I think that's what everyone wants when they first come here.

You can watch as the disillusionment happens that we all had when we first came here. We all thought that "our relationship was special" and "everyone envied what we had". We all wanted to believe the spouse that showed no remorseful actions really meant the words spoken that weren't backed up. We all wanted to believe that the stories we were told that made absolutely no sense really were true.

The only thing that is ever different is the outcome. There are three: Reconciliation, Divorce, and indefinite Limbo. The rest of the story is pretty much the same and we could start a seperate betting site on the outcomes based on how the story is playing out with the poster.

Those who reconcile and divorce get better with time. You can watch in each forum as members get stronger. Those who stay in limbo- well they stay in limbo. Sometimes they go away for a while but they often pop back in periodically with a story that hasn't changed much.

Sometimes it's hard to keep coming back when you know that the next new person who posts is going to post pretty much the same old story. A whole lot of people are going to try to help but the new member is probably going to do what feels right no matter what. The support from the board is really the important part. Knowing that someone else knows exactly how you feel while you're trying to figure it out is the part that helps keep you from going crazy. The advice is really secondary, especially since there are so many different perspectives.

When I give advice, mine tends to lean toward helping the original poster end up still having some self-respect. Begging, pleading, tolerating the continuation of the affair, continuing an affair, or ending one without ever being honest are all things that will allow you to stay married but will erode your self-respect. No matter the outcome, whether reconciliation or divorce, I always hope that the poster can look in the mirror every day and know that he or she handled him or herself in a way that still makes it possible to look in the mirror.

When I find that I have nothing to say to new posters, I'll probably stop coming here. Maybe that's why members leave. Who knows?

All I wanted at the time was for everyone to tell me what I wanted to hear--that what was happening was not really happening. But they didn't. And I was furious, many many times for them not doing this. I left SI for a week here, a week there. I was in denial. If I didn't listen to the 2x4s, then they really weren't being hurled.

But I always came back. And was smacked again. And again. For eight long months before I found my strength and faced my reality; I filed.

I remember those first few abnormally large threads that took over D/S for a long time from you Abbondad. I saw so much of my story in yours, and I hope you know how awesome and brave I think it was of you to keep sharing your story. You got whacked so many times, but I hope you know that *I* learned from the 2 x 4's you were getting too..

At some point you start feeling like you want to give back at SI, but then realize you already did, just by posting your own story

There are two main options, reconcile or divorce.

Yikes that would be scary if it were true. R isn't even an option for those with an unremorseful ws.

I have posted a great deal then left for a few months. Life happens and sometimes it needs more from us. But I'm drawn to this place so I can't imagine staying gone. I do see it as a lighthouse, a beacon in the darkness.

I think if the idea of opinion is to "wash it" then it can't be valuable... however from my short time here... i see both R and D advocated and many posts where it is split within itself to say, if you want D, do this, if you want R do this.

Sometimes R is not viable, many times WS are not remorseful. I think divorce is advocated because it brings control in most cases to the betrayed and can always be stopped... a vaccine for post affair issues.

As for judging, it is an important part of life for it is part of the consequence... i could not imagine our behavior in the absence of no consequence. So long as it stays within context and not that of to simply spite, it is healthy and helps many of us look in the mirror.

I am always a little perplexed about the allegations of cliquishness here. I have felt a lot of things, but I have never felt as though there are cliques. I can't even begin to identify a group I'd consider a clique.

I have been a member of this forum for over 8 years and I do feel there are cliques. Anyone else who has been here more than a couple of years, and does not feel this way, is probably in a comfortable clique and would not recognize this.

But I also recognize some of the reasons I'm not in a clique. I've never been to any F2F group meetings even though there have been some close enough to me that I could have. I think that some who meet IRL are probably going to appear cliquey when they associate back on the forum. Another reason I've never been accepted into a clique is because I rarely visit the Fun and Games forum. That may be why nobody has ever hosted a "5000+ posts party" for me or anything like that. But most of the time I don't let it bother me and it is my choice whether to keep coming back. One more reason I'm not in the "in" crowd is because I am a firm believer that while we can be supportive and try to point out some logic to a member who seems to be in serious denial about certain things, the 2x4s do need to be gentle and sometimes held back completely. I do think that some things are almost preached as gospel, and it is a gospel that I have not subscribed to, except with a few key things I learned that do apply to me. I've never been a big fan of collective wisdom unless I could also relate the wisdom to my own personal situation.

I think the 180 is highly over-recommended and not well understood, sometimes, even by members who are recommending it. It does seem like there is a lot of "180 his ass" advice making it seem that 180 is something you "do to" your WS. Many other members point out that the 180 is for the BS him/herself but I do see that easily gets lost in many other posts by people who don't really understand the purpose of it, or that it may not be helpful in all situations.

But that is just my opinion, again, obviously.

From the very start, I did not really come here to get advice, I came for support, a place to vent, to have somebody hear me. Many give advice and I absolutely have been one to take what I need and leave the rest. There are only a few times in 8 years when I found advice or responses to something I posted were actually offensive to me.

I also am one who will offer support and if it relates to something I have experienced in life, I may tell about that, or at times I might say: "If I were in your shoes I would probably do: _________." (rather than directly advising them what to do).

Because there are many aspects of the overall community that I enjoy, I don't let some of these things bother me and I keep returning here even though I certainly don't have to.

I do want to say that the mods do an amazing job at keeping out the trolls, I certainly didn't start this topic to insinuate that they're not doing an incredible community service. Nor do I believe that this isn't a very safe site, it saved me when I wanted nothing more then to die; for this reason I stay here now I'm 80% healed as I hope I can offer peace and understanding to others. I don't post enough these days but so many of the men and women in pain here are in my prayers.

I do think that there are cliques here though, it's human nature. I also still believe that I see some continue to force an opinion or viewpoint on others when they aren't in a place to consider it. The majority will post their opinion/advice then listen to how the OP (original poster) responds before deciding to continue their interaction or to bow out respectfully. There are some here though that continue to force their point of view on the OP which I find cruel and disrespectful as it denies the original poster's natural healing process.

I guess I'm just imploring members to listen to what the original poster is saying, they may not be ready to hear your point of view yet; eventually though they will-when they're ready.

This site has been a life saver for me. I joined at the end of February this year. I had found the site after the new year but can't remember how long I lurked before I joined.

I was suicidal and attempted suicide just after DDay 1. I had a few periods where I thought that was the only route to end the pain. I was in IC for that reason. That was all before I found SI.

I wish so much that I would have found SI back in 2002. My life would have been so much different whether R or D. I had 11 years of anguish before DDay1. I did everything wrong. I followed advice found on the internet which turned out to be totally wrong. Had I been on SI at that time, given what I find here now, and had I followed suggestions made by those who had lived it before I would have not been in the process of deciding whether to R or D now at the age of 63.

I do not post as often as some. Someone else said that they are the poster child for what not to do. If they are the president then I am vice. I don't want others to go through what I have. It is no life. There are things to do to avoid it and there is still the possibility of R (or D).

I thnak all who provide their input. Replies to other threads help me. I thank the moderators who who seem to put in hours and hours as volunteers. I thank those who financially support this board so it can stay operating. Unfortunately, it is going to be needed for a long, long time by more and more people.

***Posting as a member***

I understand that I may have a different view of the friendships that have formed here, but I wanted to address something that has been bothering me.

After looking at all the major interpretations of "cliques", I'm going to pull Merriam Webster's definition:

Clique:

a small group of people who spend time together and who are not friendly to other people

a narrow exclusive circle or group of persons; especially : one held together by common interests, views, or purposes

I am beginning to resent this insinuation. As staff I want to come at this allegation with compassion because I know it is coming from a place of insecurity, but I resent the implication that there are groups here that are "not friendly to other people" or "exclusive."

You know those G2G posts you see? Those are OPEN. To EVERYONE. True, they may not be cost effective or logistically effective for everyone, but as occasional host and/or attendee to several I can tell you that it was always, 100% "The more the merrier."

I understand that it is sometimes daunting to look at a circle of friends from the outside and imagine that you are welcome, but I can tell you that any circle that I am a part of always has room for ANYONE who wants to share.

Please, before the resentment at perceived exclusivity, come to me and ask if you can join. I will be delighted to welcome you.

Another reason I've never been accepted into a clique is because I rarely visit the Fun and Games forum. That may be why nobody has ever hosted a "5000+ posts party" for me or anything like that.

The idea of post parties was a strictly volunteer thing. One individual came up with the idea and has done their best to acknowledge everyone. That individual also has a full time career, children, and hobbies. So I'm pretty sure they'll not be able to keep track of all 40,000+ members here. Some people will slip thru the cracks. I assure you, it's not intentional.

I've seen folks throw their own post parties when they were accidentally overlooked. I've also seen parties for people who's names I don't recognize. They aren't a frequent poster or in a "clique".

Friendships are formed here. It's inevitable. I think it's unfair to call organically grown relationships a "clique". Is that how it is IRL? If I bump into a friend in the grocery store, am I alienating all the other shoppers because of my "clique"? No. I'm speaking to someone I recognize, have created a friendship with, and have a bond. If someone else on the meat aisle overhears our discussion on the chicken sale, we aren't going to turn our back. We include them.

Speaking generally now. Every member of SI is appreciated and valued. And the Staff here are volunteering their time. They do the best they can to provide a safe and healthy outlet for us while trying to maintain their own relationships, jobs, lives, and children. If you're unhappy here or feel your treatment is unfair, you're always welcome to leave. Nobody is forced to stay here.

Thank you administration, mods, guides, and every person who posts, PMs, and participates on this site. In the midst of all the trauma and chaos of life, this place is an oasis. It's magic. It's why people keep coming back.

Happy Friday y'all.

I can understand where feelings of being left out can easily be created on this site. I feel like the deep sharing that we do leads to an idea that we are tightly connected but it doesn't always feel that way. I know that through spending a weekend of talking to members that I have created friendships that would have taken much longer over reading to and responding to posts, and these friendship may appear cliquish. Due to the friendships sometimes I know details that aren't posted and the exchanges the poster and I have on their thread may appear to be cliquish, but I feel that very few people come through here that do exclude people intentionally.

On the flip side is the fact that having been through infidelity many of us are sensitive about being accepted, myself included. There are times that even I feel excluded. It is just too easy for me to allow myself to slip into that thinking.

To combat it, I think the best advice is to be active and don't be afraid to jump into anything like posting in F&G which might seem cliquish because for instance there are sometimes some inside jokes which if you ask I am sure someone will volunteer the background. If you can go to a face to face get together then think about trying to go. Even if it is a small gathering.

That may be why nobody has ever hosted a "5000+ posts party" for me or anything like that.

The post party oversights are probably my fault. Up until recently I had to watch everyone manually. I know I was missing many people because where they post and where I post didn't overlap too much. In the past few months MH has aided me with a tool to run a report to see who is close but the problem with this is that if you post really quickly between when I run the reports that I can still miss you. Anyone can throw a post party and anyone is welcome to PM me if I've missed you. Please know that if you are missed it was an accident and not to be exclusionary.

If you still have concerns, you are welcome to respond here or my PM box is open.

(((Those that feel excluded)))

(((all)))

There are two main options, reconcile or divorce

.

Actually, I think that "Not Divorcing" is a valid 3rd option, especially soon after dday. It is my experience and opinion that a BS and WS cannot really begin the work on R until the WS has identified, owned, and begun to work on his or her issues that facilitated the A, and the BS is well on his or her way towards healing and is ready to accept the FWS as a full partner to work on the M together.

The Not Divorcing option allows the BS to wait and look for sustained change in the fws before committing to R. It allows time for the BS to heal.

atsenaotie

[This message edited by atsenaotie at 2:27 PM, September 5th (Friday)]

I think this site might appear cliqueish because when a member who has been here a while starts a thread, all the other member show up and give support. And that's because they know each other so well, know each other's struggles, and sometimes it's just a hug. There are certain ppl who start threads that I know I'm going to post on because I just want them to know I read and I'm here... but I wonder if I should take more time to post on newbies threads because they need that too.

I'll have to admit I have felt excluded simply by not moving as fast in healing as some members would like me to. I'm stubborn in changing my thinking. But I've accepted that and as someone pointed out, when you're a BS, you start questioning darn near every decision you've made/make. So when I don't feel or move like others, I feel alone. Does that make sense?

Just thoughts. I love the mainstream vibe of this place. Thank you all mods and members for contributing!!

[This message edited by rachelc at 11:52 AM, September 5th (Friday)]

I joined here in about 2007 (I've got a new acct), and then I did the "pick me" dance, blamed myself/accepted for marriage failures.

I got some I'm sorrys from WW, but I never really put the foot down. I got mad, but there were never any real consequences.

I'd read/been told to lay down the law. I didn't.

I loved my wife, thought she was sick (bipolar) and that her true self would come back and be remorseful.

Seven years later (and at least 5-6 guys), that never happened and I was finally ready to leave. The original advice was right (occasionally harsh - to me), but I wasn't ready to hear it.

A lot of times people just want to be reaffirmed about their decisions, even though everyone knows they are wrong (that doesn't only apply to SI). Yes, sometimes the truth hurts, moreso with the topic of infidelity.

Great point, atsenaotie. I really like the way you put that.

Like Aubrie said, I think that organically developed relationships are inevitable...not just here, but in all walks of life. There are people at work that I'm more likely to chat with because their opinions, experiences, and interests are closer to my own than other co-workers. That just is what it is.

There are people on this site whose stories I know, I've watched develop, whom I've met in-person, etc., and if I see that they've posted a new thread, then yes, I'm probably more likely to read and post on theirs than on others who I don't know. It's not intentionally exclusive by any means.

In my almost two years here, I've never felt *intentionally* excluded by any single person or group of persons. That being said, I've *intentionally* excluded myself from threads or topics (in ICR, for example) where I don't feel like I would 'get' anything from reading and/or posting there....but to my mind, "staying out" isn't quite the same as being "left out", you know?