SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Aug 9th, I was waiting up in bed for my husband to get home from his show (he's a musician). I got a message from a man, saying he was pretty sure my husband was screwing his wife. He left the bar because they were making him sick with all the googly eyes at each other, and were still together. This was about 2:30am. I exploded, called him and called her. He got home and I went off, it was a big ugly fight. He at first said they were just talking and her husband was a jealous, crazy guy. But all of their messages on FB were deleted and I took his phone and pretended to be him. She was saying she loved him and it was all worth it that the spouses are pissed, etc. He admitted they'd been flirting via FB. Next morning I looked at history and found he'd googled directions to a park. Then he admitted they met up and kissed, to see if the connection was real and not just a FB flirt thing. He then admitted to kissing her a couple more times. Saturday night being the most recent. It was something that started around late March/beginning April and they've been talking off and on through FB since. They'd talk for a few days and then take a couple weeks off. Husband has been depressed and on anti-depressants and his head has been all over this past year. He's said on 4 different occasions that he just didn't know what he wanted in life, wasn't sure he wanted to be married, and then we'd have a big talk. I'd break down, he'd break down and then swear he knows he wants me and that his head is just all jacked up. And now this comes out.

I am completely gutted inside. I have been like that since the first "I might want a divorce talks" back in October. Every couple of months, he's declared being unhappy and not sure what he wants. So this cycle of not being loved or wanted by the one person I love with all of my heart has been an ongoing hurt for me. And now this. I can't even deal with life right now. I've been reading the forums for about a week. I think about this ALL DAY LONG, every day.

He called her on speakerphone that night and told her he wanted things to work with me, that he wasn't interested, and they could not be in contact ever again. Even if she shows up to one of his shows, they couldn't talk. He has given me the password to his FB account, access to his phone any time I want it, and has said he wants me at all of his shows (we used to do them all together before we had kids). He swears he would never, ever hurt me again. But after the first few days after finding out, he started bringing up things in our marriage that bothered him. He said on a few occasions that he wasn't sure he wanted to sign up for a life of those issues, and now he screwed himself in that I'll never trust him and it will affect his musical career (jealousy issues that will arise).

We have been married 9 years, together almost 12. We have 3 young kids together and I have an 18 year old son he's raised as his own.

After the first few days of finding out, he said that he wants to just live life for a bit and see how things play out. I've fought for a commitment from him, and he said that he didn't want to promise me anything because he swore he'd never hurt me again and that if he swore we would work out and we didn't, that would be another hurt. I told him I needed commitment or I was out, and that by him not committing to me, that WAS a hurt. He's since said that he will fix it and gain back my trust. That we will grow old together and this will be the only thing that ever came up in our marriage.

After I got ALL of the story from him, I texted her and asked HER for the whole story and said that I wanted to see if their stories matched. They did. They both confirmed all of the meetup locations and the kissing. Dirty pictures, sex talk. They both said they didn't even talk every day, that it was mainly a FB relationship. I printed out a bunch of things from the healing library and we read them together. I asked him what he felt in that relationship and he said she was an anomoly and that even if we'd had a picture perfect marriage, it probably still would have happened. That their connection was too strong, she was like cryptonite and he wasn't able to say no to talking to her and liking it. She was just like him and make him laugh. She was laid back (I have OCD and anxiety). She was fun and he was really attracted to her. And she was REALLY attracted to him and she was willing to do anything for him. She is also married and has 3 kids. She told him she would leave her husband for him. She promised she'd do all kinds of dirty things in bed with him (that I don't).

I'm just not sure what to think. He gave over his email account last night when I asked out of the blue. He wasn't expecting it and got angry. He said he's done every single thing I've asked of him, and that he's told me 100 times the same thing - I know absolutely everything right now. I'm scared that I don't. I'm scared that if I DID know everything, he knows I'd walk. We have a gorgeous home, a beautiful life. He makes a lot of money (I'm a SAHM). He knows what he risks losing. Not just me, but the kids and home, lots of his money in child support and alimony, etc. So I've brought up that he is only sorry he got caught. He only cares about losing the house/kids/lifestyle. He said later that all of my talking like that got him confused and now he's trying to figure out if that's true. His depression is weighing him down, but he's been on a new med that he likes. He said he's feeling so good and that they hadn't even talked in about a month. I was having heart testing done, he was feeling good on the new meds, so he told her they couldn't talk. Then she showed up at his show and he said the attraction was just too much and they got really flirty and kissed. He then called me and said the show was done early (true) and that a group of people were going out, and asked if I minded. Well, this bitch was part of that group and he had just kissed her. I was a nice wife and said go have fun. So he did. And kissed her again. Then people noticed their flirts and blew the whistle.

I just don't know what to think. He's agreed to MC but says he doesn't want to go. He's an extremely selfish person and admits to that. I just don't know if he has it in him to do the work to show me he's changed. He said he's had a wall up against me for a long time. that the spark and passion had died out and he figured we just weren't meant to be together and that the kids kept us going. But since finding out and me telling him I'd give him a chance to fix it and prove he was trustworthy, he's been showing me more affection and has been holding me at night in bed. I still don't get kisses (just pecks here and there). And that's something I've been wanting back in our life for a LONG time. And he gave them freely away to her.

This is long enough. I'm just lost. So very brokenhearted. The ONE person I trusted with my life has destroyed me over and over again with his divorce uncertainty and now THIS. And what gets me so upset is that he KNEW how hard I have been working to get the spark back between us this year. I have broken down sobbing. Heart-wrenching talks about how much I love him and how I wish his depression wasn't there so he could see clearly. How much I have been doing for him to make his life easier. And all the while, he's putting his energy into this "lost soul mate" bullshit.

Also, after the first "I might want a divorce, I'm confused talks" back in October, he changed his looks. And *I* noticed that he was noticing looks from other women. He started a new musical adventure (jam band) and I fought him hard on it. It's something he's been working his whole life to achieve, but I knew we were having marriage problems and it seemed like he was entering into a midlife crisis, so I didn't want the groupie/bar scene threat looming in the background making it worse. He cites my huge issues and fighting over this to be more nails in the coffin on that wall he'd been building up against me. He refuses to admit he's in a midlife crisis, although his own mom and a few friends have commented to me about it. His attitude is different, he's acting more selfish, he's acting a little too flirty. I've caught him making eyes at women and he's just played it off and gotten mad at me, saying he can't even look at another woman now, etc.

He's 36, I'm about to turn 35. Kids are 18, 7, 5, and 2

(((((SoGutted)))))

I'm so sorry you find yourself here. I don't have much advice for you except to make sure to take care of yourself. Be gentle to yourself. What helped me the most was getting into IC. It was a life saver for me.

Be prepared to find out more horrid details. I don't think there is one story on this site where the WS came clean right away. He is in a self-protection mode and is probably minimizing what was actually happening. I hope for you that you are the lucky one who did get the whole truth right away.

I wish I could offer more - many more should be along with great advice.

Take care.

Firstly, thank you! I was nervous about even posting anything, but I do need the support and advice and I'm so sick of being alone in this. :(

I have been asking him almost daily what else there is to know. And he maintains he's told me everything. I had to ask about some things, but he's been answering all of my questions, no matter how hurtful they were to hear.

I told him last night that there was a 0.0% chance we would be married if I found out there were other things down the road he was hiding. That he was choosing divorce if he was still lying about what I know. He said he understood and swore that I had the entire story.

I REALLY need that to be the case, but I am also not so foolish as to think he could be telling me the truth after so many lies. This sucks.

I've lost 6 lbs since finding out. I had about 6 ish hours of sleep in 5 days immediately upon finding out. I'm able to sleep and eat better now, but I'm obsessing. I've time-lined things in my head, gotten phone records, snooped his phone and FB. He's gotten rid of countless FB friends for me. Blocked her and her husband. I saw him on her husband's FB page, and he said he wanted to know what was being posted, if anything. I didn't want him to have access to pictures of HER through his account, so he blocked the husband as well. Ugh. It seems like he's being truthful and genuinely wants to R, but I'm not sure I can ever trust him again. The air I breathe is for him. I'd give anything to be happy forever with him. WHY am I here?

[This message edited by SoGutted at 1:14 PM, August 28th (Thursday)]

he's putting his energy into this "lost soul mate" bullshit

well that's all this is, bullshit. He is lost in what I like to call the "fuckers fog". You cannot have a rational discussion with these types they are gone into the land of Unicorns and Rainbows.

It will take a major strike of pain and change to throttle them out of it.

We on SI are so sorry for you, we BSs know this pain all too well. (HUGS)

STEP.

steppingup - what do you mean by "It will take a major strike of pain and change to throttle them out of it." ?

He has been showing me affection and seems to care. I've been happy (as happy as I can be while at the same time being crushed and depressed). And then I look at the situation and get really upset and depressed, thinking that if he had just put this effort into us to begin with, when I was (after the first divorce talk), we'd be happy AND not dealing with an affair in the marriage.

I did order the book, How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful last night on Amazon. I asked him if he'd read one single thing about infidelity/cheating and he said no. I told him if he didn't even know WHY or HOW this could happen, we had a serious problem. That he couldn't possibly guarantee it would never happen again if he was still fooling himself that she was just a special anomaly and they were really some kind of lost soul mates. I think he really believes that horse shit. I told him of course it seemed like that. They were both on their best behavior, building each other up and talking only about what they loved about one another. They flirted and it was dangerous, so there was a mutual level of secrecy and intimacy from that. And that it wasn't real life. They didn't have to live together, make decisions together, and that it was easy because it wasn't anything but flirting and fantasy. I don't know if any of it sank in, or if he even believes that. The book should be here Saturday. We'll see if he reads it with an open mind and snaps the hell out of this thinking.

steppingup - what do you mean by "It will take a major strike of pain and change to throttle them out of it." ?

The 180 helps but in the case of my WW, only after I told them, I'm sorry but I dont want you anymore, its not worth it to be married to you did my cheater double think her position and then say, she wanted to work on the relationship....no consequences no action.

RISK vs. REWARD

They (WSs) often want the reward when the risk is low, make the risk high that that AP carrot gets moldy.

That is what I am saying.

I'm sorry it's the case but I don't believe a word he is saying. He was up to something last Oct. It may not have been with her but it was with someone. Now you know exactly why "his head wasn't right" all this time.

He also shows clear signs that he's not willing to fix any if this. In fact he says it's all your fault. Remember you aren't the fun one because of your anxiety and it causes you to treat him in a way he can't stand, and you do this, and you don't do that. Every words makes me want to punch him in his face.

I wrote out 2 long posts in a thread called

Just found out yesterday

Please go in and read them. He is purposely confusing you. If he keeps you off balance he can continue unstopped.

Thanks again. I did read the 180 and that's incredibly hard to see working in our case. He's been going back and forth for almost a year on whether he even knows what he wants in life. When this happened, I did the 180 (not knowing what it even was) and he said that he screwed up so bad, I'd never forgive him, he was sorry and he'd leave if that's what I wanted. He's been doing everything I ask, and really seems to be wanting to make it work. I'm not sure flipping the script now on him would make him work MORE at R. I think it'd just defeat his attempts and we'd end up in a divorce or separation. IDK, this is so exhausting.

He did say that he's very happy that it's over. He doesn't care about her, never loved her. And this year he's been SO sick and has had so many back and neck problems. He's been telling me how tense and crappy he's been feeling. And he told me that he never knew how much stress could actually affect someone physically like he's experienced these months in the affair. He said he's so relieved it's done and over and everything's blown up and that he doesn't have that looming on his head all of the time. I do think he's glad it's over. But I still don't get WHY or HOW he even got to that point of crossing lines, lying, and continuing this crap. He said that a few years ago, he would have never even thought of doing this to me. He's messed up and doesn't know why/how. That this girl was just too much for him to resist he guesses. Barf.

I asked him if he'd read one single thing about infidelity/cheating and he said no.

I guarantee you that if he does not work on himself and his boundaries, this will not be his last affair. My husband's first affair occurred before I found SI. I allowed him to blame it all on what he was and wasn't getting from our marriage and what I was and wasn't doing right. He didn't have to work on himself. I did all the work. I don't regret the work I did because I fixed a lot of my own issues but, in the meantime, he maintained his shitty boundaries and never actually looked at why he did it and how to prevent it in the future. Fast forward seven years and he had no problem having a second affair. The only thing the first affair did was teach him how to hide the second one better. The only reason I found out about it was the second affair was with a married woman. I'm sure he felt like she was less likely to tell since she had something to lose but he didn't count on her husband following her around and figuring it out. The only advantage he had to her being married was that she was willing to stick to the story of them "just kissing" and using dirty talk but never having sex. My husband finally told me the truth himself six months after the fact because he realized I was becoming more and more depressed because his story didn't add up. And that brings me to my second point:

Sex. Where this opportunity, there is usually sex. If your husband was ever alone with her, they probably had some sort of sex. Sorry to tell you that but you need to get tested just in case.

And since your husband is a musician, I would insist on his reading the book and working on his boundaries now. This will not be the last woman who throws herself at him. He obviously had no issues with not telling you about her. If he husband hadn't gotten pissed, the two of them would still be sneaking around. Right now, he's doing damage control because he got caught. That is not the same as doing work to improve the marriage.

Read about the 180 and detaching from an unremorseful spouse. You don't have a remorseful spouse, you have a regretful one. That's different. Further, you have a spouse who is still telling you he has a huge connection with the OW which means that they consider themselves "soul mates" and that will probably mean they take it underground. Until your husband gets to indifference about her, she will be a threat to your marriage.

Trust me, I want to punch him in the face, daily. In fact, I DID punch him in the face a few times that night he got home. Not proud, but I'd do it again if I had to relive that night all over again.

He doesn't blame me for the affair, he does admit that was all him. He says that the marriage issues didn't cause it and that even if our marriage had been perfect, it likely would have happened anyway. So he's not blaming me or the marriage issues it doesn't sound like. But he still hasn't worked out how/why it even happened. Other than it being an anomaly.

Dear goodness, how do people get through this? Just reading responses has triggered me into full shaking, pissed off, gonna puke mode.

well that's all this is, bullshit. He is lost in what I like to call the "fuckers fog". You cannot have a rational discussion with these types they are gone into the land of Unicorns and Rainbows.

Oh my, this really describes it perfectly!

SoGutted - You might even want to share it with the WH but he probably wouldn't like it.

Get help for you now, take care of you and your kids first.

Give him the wake up call, urge him to get IC and attend MC.

I personally could not live with his ambivalent attitude. I understand he may be confused but he is not going to get anywhere by screwing around and hurting you.

I really do appreciate all of your thoughts and opinions. It feels like I'm defending him right now, and that makes me sick.

But he was hemming and hawing over not wanting to promise me anything, but he's moved to assuring me he will fix this and build my trust back and we'll be fine. So as far as I know, he's 100% in and not wavering. But, who knows...right?

And I actually did lay out a lot on him last night. About him fooling himself into thinking the affair was meant to be no matter our marriage circumstances, and that he was in what everyone calls "the fog." He didn't say much, other than he was just letting me get it out because he knows I need to. He didn't comment on what I said about being in the fog or having tricked himself into thinking it was ok because she was an anomaly/special/etc.

The issues he laid out in October he's taken responsibility for. He said we had lost the spark between us (hello, it's been almost 12 years together) and that there was a wall between us. He's admitted he put that wall up and has focused on the annoyances about me, taking them as personal attacks on him and he didn't communicate with me. So the wall kept getting bigger. He said that the wall is gone and he wanted to do it right this time, etc.

DANG I want to believe him. But how the hell am I suppose to after this monumental betrayal and hurt? :(

It is going to take time honey. Don't rush him for answers, leave it be. Let yourself go through the emotions as well and it will take time if you have been reading through SI you will see everyone takes well over a couple years to heal. Some make it some don't. I pray we make it but right now it just doesn't seem that way. Time will tell and right now I am just taking care of myself. All the best to you...thoughts and prayers.

He's messed up and doesn't know why/how. That this girl was just too much for him to resist he guesses.

TO SOGUTTED ^^^^

This quote from you is very alarming, and is passive and dismissive. To him, he is open to doing this again since it was not his fault, he was overwhelmed...he was out of control.

My WW gave me this same BULLSHIT. She said she fell in love accidentlly BULLSHIT, its all BULLSHIT.

Tell him to get to the root cause...him! External validation, self esteem whatever...but not what he told you....no way!

The "I'm so unhappy - I don't know if I want to be married" is soooooooooo often a sign that they are up to their chin in an affair already. I really would be skeptical that he has given you an accurate timeline, or perhaps he was in a different A back in October.

Please know, I am not saying this to be hurtful, but, rather, because it is very common for WS to give their BS the "I love you but I am not in love with you" speech, or declare quite suddenly that they are miserable in a marriage they have likely been neglecting for some time. This urgency to declare their misery in the primary relationship usually is a by=product of their twisted minds trying to rationalize to themselves ((and you) why they are in an A. Can't be cuz they are cheating liars, sooo it must be because they are miserable in their M.......

I'm not buying it, if I were a betting type, I would bet he was involved with an OW at the time those speeches started.....

Is your husband in the band full time, or does he have a different day job? I kind of got the impression that the band is a new thing and that you were not too keen on his starting it up? If that is the case, I'm not sure he is a strong enough man to be in a band and have these groupies around. Seems like it's going to be nothing but trouble for your marriage. How long has he been doing this?

Sorry if I have totally misinterpreted the situation.

No, he's always been in a band. He did add another band thing recently though, which is what I wasn't happy about. And I just wanted him to WAIT, not to just never do it. I knew we were having issues, he was having a midlife crisis or identity crisis or something and I didn't think being in a bar setting even more often was healthy to our marriage. Wow, guess I was right!

I just got off the phone with him. I needed to give him the "commit or walk" ultimatum. He said he is committed to our marriage and wants it to work and will do every single thing he can to fix it and make it work. He admits he neglected our marriage, but he also is still in this depression fog and is having a hard time understanding what's going on in his head he said. But he said he needed to do the right thing and leave for a while and we should separate so he could figure stuff out. I told him that was going to fast-track us to divorce and asked him to explain why he was thinking that way. He said that he doesn't know how this will play out and how I will handle this over time. He doesn't want to guarantee me that we will make it and life happily ever after, and so he thought that by not committing to those promises, he was doing the right thing. I told him how I felt about that, and said that he was either committing to the MARRIAGE, or not. I didn't want promises of how it would play out, because even I can't promise that. But I knew I was committed to the marriage and I would not try and make this work with someone that wasn't also committed. He said that was easy to do and he's totally committed to the marriage and is staying and doesn't need to leave.

I am so grateful for this forum though. I've mentioned several things I've been reading here and he's starting to listen and think. He now says I'm probably right about the fantasy fog he was in about the OW, and that she wasn't some lost soul mate. That he tricked himself into thinking that to avoid the actual reality of what he was doing. I told him he needs IC and we need MC (first MC appointment set for next week already).

I have told him how the "ILYBINILWY" speech is usually a HUGE red flag that there's already something going on. That it came out of nowhere and he was already neglecting our marriage, so of course it wasn't sparkles and rainbows anymore. He swears that this depression started the divorce/confusion talks and that he never talked with anyone before this affair started. And he swore on our kids' lives that they did nothing other than talk/pics/kiss. I want to believe him. But...as you all unfortunately know, doing so is pretty impossible.

Today sucks. This whole mess sucks.

I'm not really in a position to offer much advice as I did everything wrong that I could possibly have done wrong... but I just wanted to say that you're doing ever so well and sound very strong. I hope he does the work that you need to R. Look after yourself ((((SoGutted))))

And I'm thankful to every one of you that lay out the harsh possibilities. Don't worry about bursting my bubble. I need to understand this behavior and thinking, the patterns and common themes. And I'm learning a lot about it as I go.

He also said he understood completely why, but that I wasn't handling this well at all. Yes, I'm a total worthless slob right now. I don't care about the house, paying bills, talking to friends, eating, nothing. I'm a hot mess. So no, I'm NOT handling this well. AT ALL. I told him that he has had MONTHS of knowing about this and accepting it as fact and reality. This JUST happened to me, and I'm still trying to piece together the life I thought I knew was true, to the life that was actually happening.

This forum is helping me express to him the full problems we are now dealing with. Does he think this will blow over in time and if he shows a changed man, we will just be ok? It's going to be a lot more work than that. And this forum is really helping me show him that. So again, I thank you all.