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Pizza, mpb, I'm deleting my post. I added gas to this fire which was the opposite of helpful. My apologies.

[This message edited by familyfirst at 11:26 AM, September 8th (Monday)]

familyfirst

This is extremely passive agressive. Pizza, you have my admiration that you care so deeply for your M that you're willing to tolerate this.

I was lied to entering a marriage, made to befriend the AP under false pretenses and subjected to his potential diseases unknowingly, and then have had to endure the trauma of a suicide attempt, but PL is the one tolerating unreasonable behavior? That's rich. I'm excusing myself from this topic, which I was hesitant to join in the first place. I had hoped to provide my objective mindset in uttering the phrase in question, but honeslty I'm feeling bullied here.

I think MPB needs to be cut some slack here, folks.

In the context he used the word, I don't think he was necessarily calling PL a whore. And if he did, can you blame him? He did apologize.

If there is a pattern of name-calling, then yes...boundaries need to be set. But I'm not getting the sense that this is a pattern of abuse. Maybe I missed something? Apologies if I did.

Pizza, you have my admiration that you care so deeply for your M that you're willing to tolerate this.

It's good that PL is here working through her issues, but she did have an affair that lasted over 3 years, which shows anything but deep care for her M. It shows a shocking disregard for her husband, her own dignity, and their marriage. If she values him, herself, and their marriage now, that's great. But I'm sure she had mpb convinced that she was all-in back when she was anything but, so please excuse him for the cognitive dissonance and the ugliness it often produces.

And we should remain mindful of what it is that mpb is trying to "tolerate" - something exponentially worse than being called a bad name that somewhat accurately describes the past behavior, if not the person.

What both of them need to focus on is that this is PAST behavior. If this was PL's current mindset, I doubt she'd be on SI working through her issues. I hope mpb is able to focus on that and get out of this destructive cycle.

I think sal's post was right on...but I do think 20wrongs' definitions were very apt as well.

(((everyone hurting)))

I don't think he was necessarily calling PL a whore

My reply was that I would objectively view such a person to be a whore

^ Right. Cuz he was actually calling any married woman who has had enjoyable sex with an AP a whore (and not just his own wife).

BTW, personal POV regarding the word 'whore' in above quote is subjective (not objective).

And we should remain mindful of what it is that mpb is trying to "tolerate" - something exponentially worse than being called a bad name that somewhat accurately describes the past behavior, if not the person.

*if not the person (?) *ouch*

We are in the Wayward forum. It is the one place here where we should safely be able to vent about being called whores without being told we are whores.

mpb, I have a front-row seat to the destruction I've caused in my own M, and the devastating affects on my own BH. You have my sympathy.

You absolutely deserve a ton of slack, and if you want it or feel it's appropriate I hope you're seeking support and guidance in coping with the traumatic hand you were dealt. This is, however, pizzalover's thread in Wayward Side, and I'm here to offer her my support. It was not my intention to attack you or be condescending, but to provide my honest third-party perspective in the context of supporting the OP.

You apologized, I'm glad to hear it. Sorry you felt bullied, you certainly don't deserve that.

Pizza lover, my BH called me a filthy whore after DDay. He later apologized. I can't seem to separate myself from this awful term as well. I've also learned some other derogatory names on this site (cumdumpster, etc) and I wonder if that's me too. I've struggled with self esteem issues, severe depression and an eating disorder for more than half my life. The fallout of my affair pushed me over the edge. I'm working on my issues in IC.

I don't think you're a whore. Deep down I don't think I'm one either. We are human beings. We were broken. We are deeply remorseful for the betrayals we partook in and willing to do anything to fix ourselves and have happy healthy marriages. I really want to hug you in support. (((PL)))

I am going to have to go along with what WOES said here. If it is bothering you that much, figure out why.

I also agree with the fact that your H is really stuck right now because you seem to be so stuck in IC as to why this happened. Maybe you need to look into a new IC.

I do hope that mpd is going to his own IC as he is responsible for his own healing as well.

I also agree with everything Sal said, she is not tolerating anything, it is a bit of the other way around. Shit gets said after DD. You don't like the heat, maybe you should not have started the fire.

You don't like the heat, maybe you should not have started the fire.

Yep...consequences.

Mpb has a right to feel as he does. What PL did was catastrophic to her marriage and family. He has a right to think as he does in the context that he deems.

How many of us have been angry and thought derogatory things and said derogatory things based on how we were treated?

PL's behavior was very off color during her affair. One she had for 3 years right under her husband's nose. Had him befriend her husband while she had sex with him numerous times.

Name-calling is the least of the matters here, what is the core matter is her disrespect to Mpb that he can't get past and her inability to come up with "why".

The only conclusion he has is she enjoyed disrespecting him while she was enjoying having sex with her AP. To him, whores don't care who they disrespect as long as they get paid. He views PL's enjoyment of the sex as her payment, while not caring in those moments that she was disrespecting him.

No..she's not a whore...he didn't mean it like that. However..her behavior definitely was dancing around it

I think one of the biggest difficulties BSs suffer when they try for R is the (perceived or not) complete destruction if their most basic values. I think that mpb is saying that according to his values, a woman who goes outside of her marriage for sexual gratification is a whore.

Then he finds out he married a woman that started going outside the relationship for sexual gratification throughout the engagement and marriage. Does he have to change his value system to R? If he continues to denigrate people who engage in adultery, is D his only option?

I don't have any answers. But I do know that it's normal for a person to generally think of cheaters as a "whores," even after they find out they married one (a cheater, not a whore).

to everyone who is saying that her husband is emotionally abusing her should do some reality check

she let the OM become a friend with her husband while having sex with him for 3 and half years

how in hell you guys think that he shouldn't think

of her or call her that name ?

and in my opinion no she's not a sl*t but she did act like one

and the best things to do is no longer be that person in the futur

how in hell you guys think that he shouldn't think

of her or call her that name ?

but does he get to call her that for the rest of her life?

I think a time period of doing this is understandable. Necessary even. But once in an active recovery the name calling should be off the table.

mpb1974:

I hope you stay long enough to read this. I am a BS who literally understands how you feel and I've yelled at my fWW and probably called her worse things than a whore (even recently). So I'm not judging you.

I've recently been reading Feel the Way You Want to Feel No Matter What. It is a great book for those like myself that think logically. One of it's premises is that a thought is only rational if it helps you achieve your goals. Does labeling PL a whore help you reach your goal? What is your goal? If your goal is to be married to a whore or make her angry so she leaves you, then that may be a rational thought. If your goal is to have a loving and trusting marriage with PL, then it is probably an irrational thought.

I also noticed your signature line is "Absolutely destroyed." The brain is very literal and you, of course, are still alive. Is that thought helping you get to your goal? Something like "Badly hurt and recovering" might help put your brain on track to your goal.

Pizza Lover:

The same is true of your signature. Is being "Repulsed daily by my actions" helping you reach your goal or is it simply causing you to feel bad about yourself everyday?

And you don't even need to reflect on whether you are some simplistic label. You may or may not have had whore-like tendencies, but you are not a whore. You are a fallible human being like mpb and everyone else in this world. It will help mpb if you keep the larger picture in mind, that he is in a great deal of pain and pain can cause irrational thoughts and actions. Keep that in mind and try to let go of the things he may call you.

[This message edited by AdamsApple at 1:14 PM, September 8th (Monday)]

And we should remain mindful of what it is that mpb is trying to "tolerate" - something exponentially worse than being called a bad name that somewhat accurately describes the past behavior, if not the person.

Agreed.

What is a whore? Someone who does a sexual act in exchange for money. But couldn't it also be for jewelry, flowery cards, dinner, dates, or ego kibbles? I was a whore. I did many things with/for my AP in exchange for something else.

There is a huge difference between "You were a whore/slut and it hurts me so badly" and "Yo whore. Fix me a sammich". Pizzalover, the context of the conversation matters and makes all the difference in the world. If there is a disagreement, does he automatically revert to "Your voice doesn't count. You're a whore."?

I don't understand why it's so dreadful that he said your past actions were whorelike. They were! That's who we were. Is that you today? What do you feel about yourself? What do you think you were back then?

Sure. I was broken. Hurt. Confused. Abused. Battered. But I was also a whore. It is what it is. It's ugly. It's horrible. But I can't change it. It's a chapter in my life. But my book is still being written. The descriptive words for me have changed.

Read what WOES, TG, and FRM said. I believe that's the core issue.

TG: You don't like the heat, maybe you should not have started the fire.

Seriously, TG? If we don't want to be called whores, we should not have acted like whores? We deserve it?

Does that same message follow through in all lines of thinking? If a husband wants to take it a step further and take advantage of his wife sexually because she was acting like a whore, is that to be tolerated? If he smacks her around a little, is that to be tolerated?

Yes, this subject hits a nerve with me. While I understand that some name-calling can be expected for a short period of time following D-day, encouraging bad behavior (because hey, we deserve it) in what is supposed to be a marriage in recovery 18+ months PAST D-day is likely not doing any couples any favors.

Two wrongs will never make a right.

There is a huge difference between "You were a whore/slut and it hurts me so badly" and "Yo whore. Fix me a sammich". Pizzalover, the context of the conversation matters and makes all the difference in the world. If there is a disagreement, does he automatically revert to "Your voice doesn't count. You're a whore."?

Nailed it.

Sunnyrain,

Pretty sure that mpd is not going to take it there and was not taking it to that place to begin with. And PL knew that, as we all did.

ETA:

And yes, if you don't want to be called a whore, don't act like one.

[This message edited by tired girl at 1:41 PM, September 8th (Monday)]

Bigger

How about cuckold?

A word that describes exactly what happened but is perceived by all men as possibly the most demeaning and downgrading name you can call a man. And frankly: while pizzalover isn’t a whore (since she got no financial gain nor had sex with anyone that met her price) then her husband is a cuckold.

I respectfully disagree that calling a man a cuckold is the equivalent of calling a woman a whore. Most people I know would have to go to the dictionary to look up what cuckold even means.