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BS here...no you are not a whore! You made bad choices, but you are working on those. Keep working and be great!!

He (your BH) most definitely should be working on choosing more appropriate ways to deal with the pain he is experiencing this far out from D-day.

The disrespectful name-calling needs to stop. You do not have to own or absorb HIS poor behavior. Just say NO.

[This message edited by sunnyrain at 7:29 PM, September 7th (Sunday)]

pizzalover, I recall posting to you over one year ago - it was an encouraging note to say you are a good person. You had been called some awful names by your H and it made me angry for you. Again, I feel sickened for you.

I am a BS and while I lost my shit on my H some 21 months ago and called him some terrible names, that time is long, long gone.

Set some boundaries. You are not his punching bag. His anger needs to be addressed in IC and why you are taking it does as well. This is his to own. Please do not stand for this. You made bad choices. You are owning those choices.

Verbal blows like this are unacceptable.

Gosh. The ugly angry words come flying right out unless we BS's work actively to stop them when we trigger or have a bad day or just hate carrying the weight of being betrayed.

I have to be careful when I am angry not to use all my words. MC has even advised against some of the more damaging adjectives I can conjure up to describe an "act" let alone all the words that I could use as a weapon against my WH. I used them all in the beginning. They flew right out of my mouth as soon as I opened it. And oh, did I wound. I choose to be more careful now, and more in control of me.

In the early days, I wished for a word like "whore" that would fit and MAIM my WH - "whore" doesn't really apply to men, and "gigolo" doesn't quite swing the same heft. "Whore" is specifically awful for women to hear and your WH knows it and for that reason it IS a misogynistic term and he is using it to harm you. Don't let it. Its just a word. Words don't define us, even when used in anger.

Actually none of the words aptly describe the behavior of a WS or the pain suffered by a BS. "Affair" sounds lovely. "Cheating" sounds school-aged - think, tests. "Betrayal" kinda works, but that word is obscure in the feeling behind it. What he FEELS, what YOU feel, doesn't really have "words".

Your BS is hurting and wants you to hurt simply so that he knows you understand the pain he is in. He doesn't understand how you did what you did or why. He's grasping for a word that will make his pain concrete and somehow containable. But. You aren't something he calls you just because he wants you to feel his pain.

But. You aren't something he calls you just because he wants you to feel his pain

Well said, dragonflies.

If your BH's perception of you is that you acted like a whore when you cheated on him....then, fine. Give him that. Perception is reality and if he perceives that about you....then that is his reality. It is good that you were brave enough to revisit the topic. On the other hand, you may have put him in a bit of an untenable position....one where he told you what you *wanted* to hear.

Imo, the thing that matters most is who you are today and who you are tomorrow.

I think that it is important for you to let your WH *have* his opinion of your past behavior without trying to change his mind about his characterization. All you can say to him is that you're sorry and you are not *that* person anymore.

I was called a whore in college, which fucking hurts. I was promiscuous - I was desperate for men to like me.

I'm saddened for you when I read this. I've met many girls who grew into women believing that the way to a man's heart was through his penis. Most of the time, that doesn't work out. The way to a man's heart is to become a woman YOU love and enjoy the company of. In other words, love yourself first.

I understand why your husband feels the way he does and how hurt he is but name calling isn't going to change anything. You can't take it back, all you can do is go forward behaving in a way you can be proud of so that you can look in the mirror and know that, from now on, that label just doesn't fit you.

As far as your making a mistake, well, I read over and over on this board that it's not a mistake, it's a choice. As a BS, I hate hearing that. Sometimes choices are mistakes. Sometimes mistakes are choices. The fact that you chose it doesn't make it less of a mistake. It's a doozy for sure but a mistake nonetheless. But, given the fact that your husband doesn't like that word to describe it (because it sounds like minimizing), I'd avoid it. Personally, I don't mind when my husband calls his affairs mistakes. They fit the Webster definition of mistakes and he appears to have learned from them- which is the only thing that really matters to me when one is making mistakes. But I realize that for many new BS, the word sounds very tiny compared to the pain the "mistake" caused them.

i know this is hurt , i hate myself sometimes toa

but if we are honnest with ourselves we acted like whores and the best we can do is no longer be that person

This thread hit home on so many levels.

Your first post could be me. You have explained it better than I could have. Also your second post.

My BH calls me a slut.

I would like to print this whole thing and take it to my therapist.

Wishing you peace.

Edited to add that it seems that the degree of betrayal does not seem to matter. I did not actually have sex with my AP, and we met twice. The hurt and anger are the same.

[This message edited by cissie at 7:41 AM, September 8th (Monday)]

pizzalover, why do you feel you need to accept poor behavior from others?

Why do you allow yourself to be used for sex? I know you said you enjoyed it while you were having it, but afterwards you felt used.

I agree that your BS probably won't heal until he understands why you did what you did. You still don't understand why you did what you did.....how deeply have you looked? There is always a reason....

Have you done any IC? Have you dug at your FOO issues? Somewhere I think you got the idea that you could gain acceptance from others by sex, and you are needing that acceptance from the male population. Why do you need male acceptance and approval? Where do you think that is coming from?

ETA: Name-calling has no constructive purpose. It needs to end. At this point, 18 months out, you both need to be completely on board with the reconciliation. He is obviously still going to have some hurt, but he needs to express that in more honest, integral ways than by name-calling. Have you two read "Not just friends?" It is a really good book that can help you both understand each other a bit better.....I suggest reading it together, out loud, to one another and discussing anything that hits home.

[This message edited by NaiveAgain at 7:40 AM, September 8th (Monday)]

You are not a whore and you weren't during your affair. Rather, you were a hurt, broken woman. I think you should look back on your past self with compassion. I also think it will help your husband if he can view things through that lense as well.

Don't accept the name calling.

It seems like The start of this conversation was little more than a deeply hurt individual lashing out, using the most brutal words they know simply because the most brutal words still don't feel like enough.

I actually just went downstairs with him a few minutes ago to ask him if he really thinks I'm a whore. He said that he didn't and that he is just upset. He doesn't understand how I could have done this to him

Good follow-up, well done. We all get that your BH is angry, hurt, and confused. It's normal and understandable, and I'm never gonna say "he should be over this by now!"

However, how does calling you ugly names help him heal? How does him continuing to pursue this fool's errand of making sense of your irrational actions help him heal? How do his ugly words and accusations help the M heal?

Are you telling him that his words hurt you? Because you can. Early on, in these situations, Shrink One advised me to just say, "Ouch." Which you can follow up with, "When you call me a whore, it hurts. I get that you're upset and hurting, and I'm so sorry I hurt you, you did not deserve that. I will gladly talk with you about whatever you're thinking and feeling, all day long. But I won't sit here and be called names."

You saw my other post, ICR somewhat to your sitch. Shrink Two is helping me learn to remain calm in the face of BH's occasional profanity-laced tirades, and it's working. We really can learn to react in a different way to these unpleasant stimuli, which in turn helps us calmly and rationally shut them down, or step away.

It seems your BH needs to work on expressing his pain in a healthier way. Name-calling is incredibly counter productive to R and let's be honest, it's very difficult to be loving, affectionate and understanding towards someone who has just hurled an intentionally painful jab your way. That shit has got to cease. Bigger hit the nail on the head, as usual.

FWIW, I don't recall you receiving any financial compensation for having an A, therefore, you are NOT a whore.

I wanted to post some feedback on this topic, as I am PL's BS and the one that made the comment to begin with. I spoke with PL late last night about what I said and felt that there was some degree of misperception on the thread regarding the comment.

PL encouraged me to post a reply, but I did not feel like it was my place to interfere. However, I would like to offer my views on the matter, as so often things can be misconstrued when only one party presents their perception.

PL and I went biking on Sunday, and I typically find myself grilling her on the enormity of what she did while enroute to our activities together. On the way home from the bike ride, she responded to one question confirming that, during the A, she enjoyed having sex with the AP, something she has already indicated in past conversation.

My reply was that I would objectively view such a person to be a whore. It was almost an attempt on my behalf to use deductive reasoning in establishing my assessment of the matter. My response was not in the spirit of name-calling, and was rather non-emotional. I felt that I could not hide how I would otherwise see such a person behaving in such a way. The response was not even entirely about her, just about the concept of what she did.

I hope this clarifies things. I'm not making excuses for the comment and I agree that name calling is not healthy or helpful towards R. This was my honest view of the matter as a concept, not even specific to her A.

Hi pl

You said it hurts you because you want people's approval, especially your BS's.

Why is that? Why do you need outside validation? Why do you not think that who you are to begin with isn't good enough for anyone? Are you working on this in IC?

You can never fill the hole inside of you with other people's approval. The hole just gets bigger. People try to fill that hole with so many things...shopping, gambling, food, outside validation--and it never ever fills.

((((pizzalover and mpb))))

Gonnabe2016 got it right it is your BH's perception

of what you did. That is what he feels about your behavior.

What you can do is say I am sorry for what I did and I am sorry I hurt you. It hurts when you call me a whore. I am not that person anymore and I want you to see that I have changed.

If you start with the boundaries thing and telling him you won't speak to him until he says he is sorry. You may as well pack your bags and file for divorce.

If my FWW would have called me out for saying to her face that she was a slut during her A we would not be married now. I'm just saying.

The fact of the matter is she acted like a trashy slut and that is what I thought of her behavior.

I don't mean to step on toes but, simply to give a BH perspective.

really 10 years?

If you start with the boundaries thing

because if my BS called me this right now I'd pack my bags and divorce. He doesn't get to call me that anymore. Nor do I get to call him anything like this. When you're in recovery - I mean after the initial crazy shit - you don't speak like this to your spouse, guilty or not.

My reply was that I would objectively view such a person to be a whore. It was almost an attempt on my behalf to use deductive reasoning in establishing my assessment of the matter. My response was not in the spirit of name-calling, and was rather non-emotional.

Hi mbp. Sorry, but I objectively view your spin as bullshit. My assessment is that you're attempting to use deductive reasoning as a means of avoiding connecting with your emotions WRT pizzalover's betrayal. You're unable to resolve the cognitive dissonance, and you're continuing to apply logic to an irrational act.

For the record, whores don't necessarily enjoy sex, they do it for the money. Women who enjoy sex are called "humans." Married women who enjoy sex with men other than their spouse are called "selfish cheaters."

Your wife felt hurt by your words. Does she have a right to feel hurt, and if so have you apologized? Or are you expecting her to feel comforted by your explanation that you were merely discussing theoretical concepts?

20WrongsVs1

You have a right to your view. I have nothing more to add to that. What I wrote was how I felt, as I am entitled to my view. I view your primer on definitions as condescending.

PL has a right to feel hurt. I have apologized and told her I don't see her as a whore.

I'm not expecting her to feel anything with regards to what I say in response to HER affair. I had nothing to do with this, didn't ask for it and didn't sign up to have to deal with it. So if I say some things that would be considered off color, I think I should be given some elbow room. This is all new to me.