SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My first husband (yeah, I managed to pick two cheaters) contacted me about 8 years after our divorce, after I had some very serious surgery. He actually had to get my phone number from my mother, as I was living in a different state, and I'm sure she made that a humbling experience too. I answered a knock at the door, and about fell down when there he stood, out of the blue. He came to inquire about my health and recovery, and also to sincerely apologize for his affair, and everything he put me through during our marriage as far as financial irresponsibility and just not being a good husband overall (he was a workaholic.) He really was sincere and I have felt nothing but good will for him since. ETA: Also, karma paid him back, because he married the little skank he cheated with - he thought he was her 2nd H: turned out he was her 5th! She cheated on him, and then she and her new BF stole from him and then turned him into the IRS for not paying taxes.

I'm more than 3 years out and fighting through divorce proceedings.

I got that original non-apology "I'm sorry I hurt you" garbage. I called his shit on it and told him that he was simply sorry he got caught since he was still lying about things.

Even if I got the almighty genuine apology now, it wouldn't mean a thing. When you gut your spouse and children emotionally, financially and socially, sorry doesn't mean very much. He has hurt me and the kids so much in the last 3 years--words are cheap, actions is what I'm looking for. frankly, I'd prefer it if he just left me and the kids alone...

He can keep that sorry.

It is difficult to generalize. My experience is that our ex's may look back with loss. But this may be too painful to progress into regret.

There are the issues of narcissism, NPD, and the related spectrum 3 disorders.

My ex.

My own father (recently deceased).

It is tough to know what it is they need to work through that makes them decide that bailing out on kids, a spouse, ... all who loved them ... leads to a better life. I can imagine how the adoration of a new mate feels superior in the moment. But the reality of time might twist things about.

But, maybe, this is not valid to our spouses who bail out on their long marriages.

Maybe it is not valid to the fathers and mothers who bail out on their children...

ALL hoping to find a feel-better in the attentions and what-evers of another man, another women.

I do not anticipate any of these people will EVER recognize that the diamond mine they were seeking could be.. WAS.. in their own backyard.

I do not expect my ex to EVER recognize he was loved.

Deeply loved.

As a husband.

As a father.

My ex had a father who cheated, and left the family. So, my ex emulated his father (who he claimed to hate). HIS stuff to work through. And, I try to help our own children get through the muck so that they do NOT repeat this.

Sins of the father onto the children.

I accept the sins of the mother onto the children would also be valid.

I try to be the upholder of virtue in the family.

Someones' gotta do it!

[This message edited by luv2swim at 1:45 AM, October 10th (Friday)]

Yeah my X apologized a lot. And he sincerely meant it....for exactly that moment in time. That moment in time was usually just enough to suck me back in to false R.

Then after a year of false R he would still apologize at random times. That was emotionally draining and hurt my healing for a while. It would seriously set me back months.

After a couple of years of random apologizing, it didn't mean anything at all to me anymore.

Notice that at no point did his apologies ever help my healing. Not one time. If anything they made it worse. By sincerely apologizing, I knew he understood the damage he had caused; understood what he had done; and understood what he lost...and he still wasn't willing to do the work to repair it. I wasn't worth it. OUCH.

The only thing he's really done to help my healing was answer my questions. The apologies...yeah that and a dollar will get you a cup of coffee.

Count me as another who got a non-apology apology. The kind that come with a "but" at the end. In fact, I not only got an apology, but he really wanted to get back together again.

First, he was not at all prepared to do any work to heal the damage he done. He simply wanted to sweep it under the rug. Second, he still did not seem to understand how I could be so hurt by his A.

I think by the time he apologized, I was so far into my own healing journey that I could really see him and our relationship for what it was and the "apology" such as it was didn't matter because I was a completely different person by then.

(((allatsee)) An apology is not integral to your healing or your ability to co-parent.

The only apologies I ever got were either vocally angry ones - Shouted "I'M SORRY!!!" apologies, which are pretty crap in my book - or poor lil me victim passive aggressively angry apologies which always ended with "...but you hurt me so much" (never could say what I actually did).

I'd be stunned if I ever got a genuinely remorseful apology for:

- emotionally abandoning me for years (during his A, during the aftermath of dday and after walking out)

- the terrible emotional manipulation & gaslighting during all of that time (especially during MC)

- the badmouthing and blameshifting during all of that time

- the deception, lies and intentional omissions during all of that time

- the devastating hurt and emotional harm he inflicted on the children and I

- the resentful passive aggression, resistance and rivalry he directed towards me when I thought we were working together as a team.

And those are just the bigger issues. None of which he has ever apologised for, let alone in a meaningful way with matching actions. But (sarcasm) it's all MY fault, of course

Well, I got apologies out of Perv, but you know what? The words were hollow sounds that didn't mean a thing, by the time he said them.

Maybe if he said them and was coming back, it would've meant something? But it actually felt insulting instead.

There is a very important holiday in my religion where you have to apologize and ask forgiveness to people you have wronged.

Every year I get a text from my STUPID EX.

"Please forgive me,you wil see our lives will be better and the black cloud will be lifted.Money will be better for both of us.Please say you will forgive me"

Every year I ignore him. Not an apology in my book.

Gettinout, that lame text SO does NOT qualify as an apology for the religious holiday which you mentioned. It's all about HIM! What a schlemiel!

Gettinout, that really does sound like a 'please forgive me so I can say you did and play that card whenever I need to'.

Ex never said sorry. It was all about him and OW. I was replaced and he saw no issue with it.

For a long time I wanted an apology with a conversation that followed. I wanted him to understand the absolute pain I felt. The damage he did. To feel my misery. While I still want him to go through misery and pain (yes, still awaiting that karma bus to hit him), it will not be from any type of conversation he has with me. I realized long ago I don't want anything from him ever again.

Mine did about a year after DDay. Except when he did it he was drunk and crying that he just wanted me back. More empty and stupid self centered words than anything. They had nothing to do with him really wanting me back, it was all about him. Turns out when he did call me with those empty words he was drinking and driving, pulling what used to be our forty foot fifth wheel down the road. He had gotten in a fight with OW and figured he could come crawling back to me. As luck would have it, he was stopped by a Sherriff and issued a DUI while crying on the phone to me!! Karma's a bitch!

My ex will never say sorry because he doesn't have anything to be sorry for. He just expected the kids and I to be happy because HE was happy.

I think it is human nature to want an apology when someone has done you wrong but it's important to remember WHO we are dealing with. They could throw out a "sorry" and feel that they truly apologized and then blame us for not getting over it. The apology we deserve is most likely not going to happen.

Now as far as co-parenting, you will need to continue doing what your doing ... be civil with her and be a stable loving parent to the kiddos.

I don't expect mine to ever apologize to my face it would mean he did soemthing wrong and of course he is to happy to be sorry.

I did not get any type of apology, nor do I expect to. He acts as hateful towards me as if I had been the one to cheat on him. He's a classic narc and in his (false) reality, all of this was my fault. So what on earth would HE have to apologize for?

For a long time I wanted an apology from him. Just an iota of remorse... something... Anything! Then I realized that even if he were to give it, it would be as meaningless and fake as every promise he ever made, and every I love you he ever said. It would be one more lie, and nothing more. And I don't need any more lies from him, ever.

(((Allatsea)))

What love2swim said … exactly.

I heard "I made a big mistake" within months of D-day, but he married her and is still with her, and they "seem" very happy, nine yeaars later.

No, no. The only mistake he recognizes is that it wasn't/isn't the paradise he anticipated. Nothing to do with me or our kids.

Well allatsea . . . I've always been one for "balance, fairness and justice" as well, and it is a wonderful thing for humans to strive for, and so admirable when realized . . . but life usually isn't like that.

You see, she really got the short end of things. You have a heart, with the ability to love, with a loyalty and depth of feeling she'll probably never understand, let alone be fortunate enough to actually feel herself. She'll never feel the wonder you feel as your children grow and discover new things, she'll never truly appreciate the concept of family. Worse, she'll feel the need to resent you, see evil in you, and treat you as poorly as she can so she won't have to look at herself. Yes, it's unfair, unbalanced, and unjust that her genetics, upbringing, and experiences led her to become the type of person who you and I and most decent people would never want to be.

As for being reasonable when co-parenting . . . do you remember my analogy about the venomous snake? Well, tell you what . . . let's walk back to that cage this tragic snake has put itself in. This time before you reach in, even though the snake has struck every other time you reached out to it . . . this time . . . explain to it in calm, gentle tones that this time you are reaching out because you wish to co-parent responsibly.

I'll bet the snake still strikes at you, probably even hurts you, just like every other time. Why? (Coarse language warning) . . . Because it can't fucking understand what the fuck you're saying! It's a fucking snake!! (End coarse language)

It doesn't matter that the analogous animal doesn't understand because it's incapable of understanding English, and that she doesn't understand because she's incapable of understanding reason (from you) and/or is stubborn and/or just doesn't get it . . . the result is the same. She's only sees a threat and will strike. There's a point where you have to stop trying. Maybe the snake will mellow out at some point . . . but don't reach out to it anymore expecting that.

How about communicating necessary school stuff to the Gru instead? Does that idea repulse you? Do you not want to communicate anything to him? Well, maybe that's how you need to feel about communicating with her. Each time you need to communicate something to her . . . think, "I'd better run this by the Gru first.". Whatever your reaction to that (repulsive) thought is . . . that's how you should feel about communicating it to her. If you are unwilling to run it by him, then perhaps you shouldn't run it by her either.

When you absolutely, positively, must communicate a parenting matter, try a third party, or use a long enough pole to avoid getting bitten by that strike you know you can pretty much always expect (if things are as you've described them).

By the way, when a venomous snake crawls out of its cage, rears its head and says in perfect English (or even American English), "Gee, I'm sorry for any inconvenience or fear I've provoked in you and other human beings over the years, it was part of my nature." . . . well . . . that'll probably be the same day your ex will apologize.

[This message edited by c24j at 5:13 AM, October 13th (Monday)]

That's an amazing post C24j. Thanks for taking the time to write it. I'm sure I'll read and reread the post many times.

She is a snake and there is someone behind her poking her with a stick which annoys her even more.

Thanks allatsea . . . keep in mind I could be wrong about all this, but as you've presented things, there seem to be some pretty obvious patterns of behavior.

All that being said, I should note for the record -

1 - To everybody . . . I actually really like snakes. They are wonderful, beautiful animals that get a bad rap, and shouldn't be the source of fear and disdain they so often seem to receive.

2 - To allatsea . . . The analogy kinda' works still though. There are some snakes that behave as I described, partly as a way they are naturally wired, and/or as a result of their survival experiences . . . expecting them to act differently would be foolish and possibly dangerous on our part.

3 - Your ex may be capable of the reason and understanding and good co-parenting and the heartfelt appreciation of your history together, and finally, the apology that you, (and all of us) would love to see . . . but for your own mental health and healing . . . don't count on any of this, don't expect it, and (again, if things truly are as you've described them) don't even hold out any real hope for it.

Though it doesn't seem like it, you're the fortunate one here, in your very nature. Ignore her or pity her . . . but understand her nature (her behavior), avoid contact, and be extremely cautious and prepared in the very rare instances when contact is required.

[This message edited by c24j at 12:02 PM, October 13th (Monday)]

I wish there was a like button for all these responses.

An insincere apology and three dollars will buy you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.