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When I first caught her texting OM I felt like I HAD to forgive her because I did not want OM to fuck my wife. How GOD AWFUL. There is absolutely no way this could happen. Whatever I had to do, I could not allow this to happen!

I had to reconcile with her immediately. I had to reconcile with her gratefully. What choice did I have? I did not want her to have sex with another man. I could not live if she did. I decided I must not do anything that would make it easy for OM. God forbid that I make it easy for OM to seduce my wife.

Your wife just doesn't get it. Did you tell her this? It might help her understand you and your actions.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 7:05 PM, August 14th (Friday)]

Gotta ditto what Graywolf said:

DoneGone, you are a quality human being.

Daughters need time.

Your WW is going to have to work on a relationship with them on her own. You are doing what you will so you can look yourself in the mirror each morning.

The girls are living at your place? Do I have that right? And your WS comes over to your place to see them? Listen I know this is all so terribly hard and you are navigating the best you can, I would just say that #1 if you are going forward with a D then have your wife meet the girls in some other location, not the one that you moved out to and now SHE gets to use to see the girls? Sorry, I know you are trying to do whats right for the girls but I would tell them it is too hard for you and suggest they meet with their mom someplace else.

#2 - You once again trying to smooth this over for the girls is not OK, you need to let them feel their anger and let them take a stand with their mother, she threw them under the bus to get what she wanted, they have a rite to be mad at her, don't make it easy for your wife to come into your house and try to smooth things over. Your wife created this, let her find a way to fix it on her own if she can. Your girls will be OK and it will allow them to make their own decisions about how they want to handle their mom, not you.

This is just my opinion, but you allowing your wife into your new home and trying to fix things is not healthy for you. The A is not your fault, but the dynamics of your marriage where you were probably the "fixer" of things needs to now change. Don't fix this for her...or say its for your daughters. The girls if they are as well rounded as you say they are will muddle their way thru this but they need to be able to show their anger at someone who betrayed them as well. I hope that makes sense, it is a very hard dynamic to learn to move away from, trying to smooth things over or make it better. This one is on her to find a way to change, not you.

JMO.

[This message edited by realitybites at 7:39 PM, August 14th (Friday)]

The girls are living at your place? Do I have that right? And your WS comes over to your place to see them? Listen I know this is all so terribly hard and you are navigating the best you can, I would just say that #1 if you are going forward with a D then have your wife meet the girls in some other location, not the one that you moved out to and now SHE gets to use to see the girls? Sorry, I know you are trying to do whats right for the girls but I would tell them it is too hard for you and suggest they meet with their mom someplace else.

It's even worse. They don't want to see her so when she comes over they leave. DG, you need to stop bringing her over.

#2 - You once again trying to smooth this over for the girls is not OK, you need to let them feel their anger and let them take a stand with their mother, she threw them under the bus to get what she wanted, they have a rite to be mad at her, don't make it easy for your wife to come into your house and try to smooth things over. Your wife created this, let her find a way to fix it on her own if she can. Your girls will be OK and it will allow them to make their own decisions about how they want to handle their mom, not you.

This is just my opinion, but you stepping out of trying to fix things for your wife is healthy for you. The A is not your fault, but the dynamics of your marriage where you were probably the "fixer" of things needs to now change. Don't fix this for her...or say its for your daughters. The girls if they are as well rounded as you say they are will muddle their way thru this but they need to be able to show their anger at someone who betrayed them as well.

JMO.

I agree. DG, you're doing the same thing to them that they tried to do to you. Forcing them to have a relationship with someone who betrayed them is only going to damage your own relationship with them. Let them handle it in their own way while you stay out of it. Give them time to heal on their own and they'll repair the relationship when they're ready.

DG,

I feel your pain and have lived have through the stages of a betrayal leading to a broken heart. The betrayal of one's most trusted life partner is enough crush a man's confidence and any self-worth they had.

This website was unavailable fifteen years ago and we flew solo. My wife, like yours, discarded everything that was held special in our relationship. She had a three month physical affair with a work colleague. She was played and not only fell for the slime ball, but jumped right in. She lied, denied, twisted and turned doubt on myself throughout this time. On D-day I beat the f*ck out of the OM on his doorstep in front of his wife. I am not proud of this, but it did lead to immediate NC, an end to the affair and a visit from the police.

For me, I chose to reconcile. At the time we had four young children and were burdened with enough debt that neither of us could not cope financially without selling the home. The children made my choice to reconcile easier as I could foresee the catastrophe of a breakup on their lives.

My reason for posting was simply to give you perspective from someone who has survived the most despicable imaginable thing can happen to a marriage. I did mourn the loss of what our relationship had been for a least a couple of years. Even six months after D-day I felt like shit, and was plagued with self doubt and mind movies. I couldn't even drive near places where I knew they had been together. I would assume anyone afflicted by infidelity would still have these issues regardless whether reconciling or divorcing. Anyway, the point I wanted to make was that we are still married today. I love and cherish my wife more than ever. I will never forget what happened. Over time we grew close again and I learned to trust. Forgiveness took me years to give myself, but when I finally understood that it was for me and not her life became easier.

I've pondered what might have been had I not chosen to reconcile on many an occasion. I've mostly had an optimistic view of life. I possibly could have been happy without my wife, I don't know. I do know that I've been happy for at least a dozen years now. We developed a sense of togetherness (love?) caused by the affair that is feels stronger our life before. This may be just maturity disguising itself, but it feels special.

I truly hope you find peace soon.

she will always be my kids mom. She has seriously alienated herself from them and they are surprisingly unforgiving. Hopefully, if I can talk to WW and be friendly and warm, they will turn loose of their anger.

Please re-think this strategy.

In regards to your WW/stbx, shoot for respectful civility.

Your daughters have every right to be hella pissed at their mom. They trusted their mom to the point of believing her and *siding* with her against their dad....only to find out that mom's motives were completely self-serving and lacking any sort of caring and compassion for any of you. I'll bet that your girls see what their mom did as a HUGE betrayal.

Step back and let go of the outcome. Their relationship with their mom is between them and her. She broke it.....and maybe she'll be able and allowed to repair it or maybe she won't.

Your job is to not stir the pot or talk disrespectfully about their mom to them. Encourage the relationship without pushing too much or making them feel guilty if they just don't want to spend time with her.

I agree with Gonnabe.

Besides, I think it's a good thing that they are pissed at their Mom to an extent because it shows an important life lesson to them and also they have a right to be angry because they were betrayed by her too.

I wouldn't add any more to that or encourage it. I would thank your kids and give them credit for understanding your situation and seeing through the BS.

Their relationship with their Mom will someday come back. Probably but let them heal in their own way and let them make it up to you after the way they sided with her. It's still you who is out of the house and it's still you going through a divorce you didn't ask for. You are the one who needs support now, not her (although she may, she can find that elsewhere after what she did).

I know I may get hit back after this harsh opinion but it's the way I feel.

Your daughters are pissed and they only know a fraction of the truth. If they knew the whole truth, it would be a lot worse. You can always let WW know that you saved her additional pain by not giving the daughters that info. You've already given her enough right there

(((((DG)))))

It's a very shitty road we have had to face. I apologize for making it difficult for you to respond but truth is that it took me months to post on your thread. You're not alone in your reality and not alone to feel like you have had to get up from the bomb that detonated your world. My WH and I too were hs sweethearts, he was my first kiss and we were each other's firsts too. He was my world and Prince Charming as your wife was your queen. Knowing that the most important person in your life was the one to cut your world apart is a hard pill to swallow. I agree that things will never be the same. Hardest part for me during our reconciliation is mourning who not only we were but who I was. It's hard no matter which road you take but at the end I know we will be ok. Stay strong DG, we can do it :)

double post

[This message edited by DoneGone at 10:03 AM, August 15th (Saturday)]

SpokenFor 1)

Have your daughters seen enough of the evidence to absolutely understand the PA, the long-standing deception and the contempt?

2) What do your daughters say now about why you should stay or leave?

3) Has enough time passed for you to determine if she is feeling simple regret or true remorse?

Thanks SF. 1. My daughters have seen more evidence than I would have ever wished for. OMW shared with them everything and I do mean everything. The physical side of the adultery was bad but it has become apparent that what bothers them the most is the disgusting things she said about me to OM. 2. My daughters (with exception of oldest) have given me ultimatum that if I ever reconcile with WW that they will lose all respect for me. They are deep in anger and betrayal stage. 3. True remorse like I never knew was possible. She has always been insecure and jealous but now tells me to have revenge affair(s) if that is what I need. She is very concerned with OMW and has great fear that I may be interested in her but has told me she would be waiting.

I could go on. Her remorse is awful and painful to see. I love her too much to enjoy or endure her pain. I would never take WW up on her offers because I only desire her.

[This message edited by DoneGone at 10:02 AM, August 15th (Saturday)]

DG -

I have to agree with the others. You cannot invalidate your daughters' feelings toward WW. You are having your experience and they are having theirs. You are also, in action and deed, teaching them what is acceptable for them to tolerate in their marriages/intimate relationships.

My WH is slowly but surely estranging himself from our kids. My daughters more than my son. EVERY mental health professional we've had contact with over the last 2 years, and there have been a lot, have told me to stay out of it. It's CAT's responsibility to fix his shit with the kids. If he doesn't, then so be it, as the relationship wouldn't have been a healthy one.

It's ok for them to be mad. It's ok if they don't get over it. None of it is on you. You didn't buy tickets to this circus, you were just shoved into the tent by your WW.

My attorney says to me (frequently),"you can't force CAT to be the kind of parent you want him to be.".

Hands off of this, DG. Let your WW clean up her mess by herself.

The physical side of the adultery was bad but it has become apparent that what bothers them the most is the disgusting things she said about me to OM.

I can understand having a midlife crisis and poor boundaries. I can even understand having so much naughty fun that you’re lost in fantasy land. But she could have had her fun without degrading you to the OM.

An affair without cause is a sign of poor character but demeaning you with the OM reveals a cruel streak. If that aspect wasn’t pleasurable for her she wouldn’t have participated in it. I can only imagine what they said during sex.

I could go on. Her remorse is awful and painful to see. I love her too much to enjoy or endure her pain. I would never take WW up on her offers because I only desire her.

Your wife is not the woman you think she is. She's obviously extremely narcissistic. It was all about her during the affair and it still is. You’re obviously a good and kind man. While she’s only concerned about her future you’re feeling her pain. You deserve better.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 12:22 PM, August 15th (Saturday)]

Whatever you do , dont let your been friendly with ww effect your relationship with your daughters .Just be honest with them , tell them your abit lost at the minute but you are pushing ahead with the divorce .You cant fix there relationship with there mother ,it might be time you stopped talking to her and focused on yourself .Seriously i dont know how you can be in the same room as her after what she did to you .

Man so much good and kind advice on this thread.

I know with my own daughter I no longer mention her mum to her because it causes problems.

You just cant make people get it, or as my daughter tells me "I don't get it".

Good luck mate but it sounds like your going to have to just move on and leave her behind, and let her and the kids sort out themselves.

what bothers them the most is the disgusting things she said about me to OM. 2. My daughters (with exception of oldest) have given me ultimatum that if I ever reconcile with WW that they will lose all respect for me. They are deep in anger and betrayal stage.

Cheating affects the whole family, even grown up children. Your wife was so caught up in the affair and never stopped to think how she could ruin her relationship with your daughters. The respect of my children is very important, after all they are my flesh and blood, unlike a cheating spouse.

DG - What does your wife have to say about the horrible things she said about you?

She talked herself into thinking it was okay to sleep with the OM, but why did she have to say these things about you?

I can understand how your daughters feel TBH. She's not only been unfsithful, but disrespected you their father. To stay would be telling them they should tolerate this in their future marriages just because they love a man.

Love may conquer all, but when it comes to this, you have to have some self respect.

I have to say that everything you post is so well articulated and your intelligence comes across. I really don't see how your wife can plead and argue for reconciliatio, when you present your reasons with such logic.

It really boggles the mind to think why on earth your wife risked loosing a man such as yourself, for this lowlife OM.

2. My daughters (with exception of oldest) have given me ultimatum that if I ever reconcile with WW that they will lose all respect for me.

Pay close attention to this,

Heed this warning, your daughters are adults, will eventually marry and have children of their own.

Being around my grand babies, and kids functions as they grow up is far more important than saving a Marriage. (atleast to me)

I mean you can't replace your kids.....You can replace your spouse.

I am telling you bro, the writing is on the wall, your daughters are telling you, right now there is a "line in the sand, and the fact that they have the back bone and integrity to stand by it is admirable, it means you taught them something right.

Them telling you "You get back with her we will lose respect for you."

Translate that, we have no respect for her, or her actions want to distance our selves from her and this mess, but if you want to be apart of it and continue then we will distance our selves from you as well.

Also think about long term, "hey dad come over to visit for BBQ this Sunday, but leave mom at home." That would sound awkward right? Right, so what happens is so they avoid such a conversation they just don't invite you outright....Your WS lost her daughters respect and she only has herself to blame, why should you have to pay for her sins as well?

You did not cheat, this is not your fault, this is not your mess to fix....

.

Look, your relationship with your spouse is Nuked, don't risk your relationship with your daughters.....over this.

I am a father my self.

How about an idea? This can be a win win for all, your daughters want you to split from your wife right? You love her still right? Your ex wife wants another chance right?

Okay try this, Divorce her outright, and tell her a change a "remarriage." A clean slate, a "new marriage, a new relationship." You can save face with daughters, in your heart you are open to give WS another chance, and WS gets another chance.

Everybody gets what they want......Offer it to your WS as take it or leave it, show it to your daughters as not taking her back, divorcing her.

Then tell daughters it is like starting fresh....

3. True remorse like I never knew was possible. She has always been insecure and jealous but now tells me to have revenge affair(s) if that is what I need.

I just want to say that most people see that statement as a free pass to have sex with someone else and then you both will then have had outside sex and so the slate is clean. But what a WS means by this with their selfish backwards thinking is "I want you to screw up just like I did so that the kids and everyone now will not be just looking at me as the bad guy, I can now say that you did it too."

Its not a free pass, its them not wanting to be the only one who looks like a bad person. Period.

But we all know that 2 wrongs don't make a right. Do you really think she is going to come up to you after you have had a night or two or three with another woman and say " Hey baby, was that great for you? Great! Now lets get back together."

Probably not going to happen.

You are not responsible for fixing your girls and their mother's relationship. Step away from that issue.

Your wife needs to see your daughters somewhere other than your home. Especially if the girls don't want to be with her. Not yours to supervise or commiserate. It just adds to your pain and doesn't resolve anything for anybody.

She has always been insecure and jealous but now tells me to have revenge affair(s) if that is what I need. She is very concerned with OMW and has great fear that I may be interested in her but has told me she would be waiting

This is so you will be even and she doesn't have to wear the scarlet letter anymore. This is to assuage her conscience and share the blame if you did this. This isn't about comforting you or helping you move forward.

[This message edited by momentintime at 8:29 PM, August 15th (Saturday)]

I haven't read your entire thread. I just read mainly this page about your daughters losing respect for you.

Please please know that if they can say this to you that they truly mean it. You deserve so much more.

You need to listen to your daughters. And I agree you sound like a class act who taught his daughters well my friend!

Sometimes when it comes to marriage, we have to throw in the towel sometimes and most of the time we should have done it a hell of a lot sooner than we did. I think it is time you end it.

.. Her remorse is awful and painful to see. I love her too much to enjoy or endure her pain. I would never take WW up on her offers because I only desire her...

Little sentences like these in your posts show me your real intentions. After all the details of your WW's betrayal, 100% of the people here, and 100% of your offspring, literally shouts at you to leave this person, get well mentally (selfesteem, codependency) find someone who has at least minimum level of respect for you.

While actually, all the time in your heart and mind she is the one person that completes you. You can not live without her, no matter what she did, thought and thinks of you and treats you. This is plausible, because of the history and the dynamic of your relationship with her. I think your brain is wired in such a way for this illusion to stand. What your daughters and the people here are saying doesn't fit in this illusion. This illusion is your comfort zone and I, regretfully, think that you are not strong enough yet, to leave your comfort zone.

Then again, it's your life. Only you are responsible for the choices you make towards what you perceive as a happy and fulfilled life. I hope you choose wisely.