SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I read some legal cases about this. Basically since there is an expectation of privacy and I am not one of the participants, I cannot do this. Fair. Again, I don't care anymore. She can talk to him all the hell she wants.

My course is divorce.

She just can't believe you are not getting the message. That email she sent is telling you all you need to know.

I agree with this translation -

"I have been fucking another man for a year and I am not sure i want to give him up yet. I was willing to CONSIDER it if you gave me enough leeway to decide, especially if he is on vacation and I did not have to talk to him every day. But you have made it uncomfortable for me by refusing to let me shit on you any more without objecting, so I need space from you. now you wait like a good little boy while I decide what i want to do"

I would add that she wants to continue screwing the OM while she considers her options.

I am big supporter of reconciliation but for that to happen both parties have to be all in and even then it is very difficult and sometimes does not work.

The 180 (would give her "space") and a list of what you require of her to stay married may still be an option.

I don't know what state you live in but talk to your divorce attorney about the VAR. Owning a VAR is not illegal. There may be ways to use it that are not illegal.

Actually the message might mean:

“I too am totally mixed up about why I had the affair. I haven’t really grasped the danger I placed my marriage and my career in. I worry if ICO will divorce me and what consequences that will have. I worry if my boss will fire me. I worry what Mr. English will do. I worry what his wife will do. I wonder why everyone went silent in the coffee room. I don’t know if I want the marriage or not. I’m not sure what ICO wants. I think some of his demands are demeaning and off the wall. I don’t think I want to be a prisoner. I haven’t slept for a week. I am totally worn out. I need some reprise from all this shit.”

Keep in mind that unlike ICO who has SI and possibly other resources to share with then his WW is alone with her thoughts.

My course is divorce

As BIGGER said, if that is your couse of action great. BUT STICK TO IT (she has made it clear what she is going to do so you are on the right course)

I think you are at work and so is she I am guessing. Anything that happens tonight you can rest assured was after consultation with boyfriend AND probably her girlfriend.

So do not be surprised if they have told her to "cool it" and play you for a sucker some more. So be prepared for her to apologize and make nice to you. Remember, it is highly unlikely that this OM is really going to leave his wife and kids for a piece of ass a couple of times a year and a lot of text messages.but he IS going to want her to keep you under control so they can have more fun when the opportunity arises.

if he was here in geographic area she would be with him already discussing this in person.

So "I Can IOvercome", please do not message everyone tonight at 7 Pm and tell us she apologized and all is well. i hope that e mail and her separation talk made you recognize that ain't so.

read why SYBO just told you again in case you start to waiver.

One thing I had to do was latch hold of a motto in my head... course mine was "I will not be the victim." I've heard others use "she isn't the woman I married." "The marriage is broken." etc. etc. You get the drift. It's just kind of something of a catch phrase that can reground you to the reality of what she's done every time the bullshit starts getting thick.

she contacted him.

No question.

She is also not remorseful nor considerate to Icanovercome.

I am glad he's got the appointment tomorrow.

Your interpretations are right, Nononsense and ybo's advice is right on as is Bigger's

[This message edited by Western at 11:02 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]

I absolutely love the translation of that email. It is spot on.

As a very pro-reconciliation guy even I agree - she needs to be knocked on her ass. The only way that is going to happen is to have her served. Remember, that doesn't mean that the divorce has to go through.. but it will make your point very clear.

BTW, I may be in the minority here, but in these cases where the wife is still back and forth - I'm all for getting nasty. I had no problem looking my wife in the eye and letting her know that I'm filing for divorce... and I'm going for full custody and she can have fun seeing her kids only at my discretion (a lie, I know... but at that point it made her stop and think). At one point I even let her know that I'm going to have her declared an unfit mother. Losing one's kids is a big, big deal - way bigger than losing a spouse. I'm sorry but, to me, everything is on the table.

Lastly, I've seen so many discussions here about the damn VAR. Illegal. Legal. In the car. In your pocket. Who gives a shit? How many guys are REALLY being sued... and LOSE... for recording the conversations of their CHEATING wife?? A quick Google search found that in Michigan it's illegal to record - with penalties of up to two years in prison and a fine of not more than $2k.

I'd love for someone to post a case where someone was fined that much money - or imprisoned - for recording his cheating wife. A lot of things are illegal but some are barely penalized.

If you're worried - don't use the recording in court if you divorce. But at least you'll know.

This evening; go home, eat something healthy and substantial, tend to the kids, go for a long walk, take a warm bath. Read a good book and get some sleep.

No relationship talk.

Take time off from the shit that’s your life right now.

You won’t either divorce or reconcile in the next 24 hours.

It’s a marathon and now is not the time for a sprint.

Your problems will still be there tomorrow but maybe you will be in a better spot to deal with them.

Lastly, I've seen so many discussions here about the damn VAR. Illegal. Legal. In the car. In your pocket. Who gives a shit? How many guys are REALLY being sued... and LOSE... for recording the conversations of their CHEATING wife?? A quick Google search found that in Michigan it's illegal to record - with penalties of up to two years in prison and a fine of not more than $2k.

I'd love for someone to post a case where someone was fined that much money - or imprisoned - for recording his cheating wife. A lot of things are illegal but some are barely penalized.

This is also why I suggest going with the smartphone route instead of an actual VAR. Because who doesn't drop/lose a phone in a car from time to time? If it's found...ww may just think it's a lost phone. And since it's a phone...that HAS to make any lawsuit a bit less cut & dry.

Like Bigger described, she is in fight or flight response.

Look, there is no doubt that the OM intercepted your FB message to his OBS, otherwise why "block" you from further contact and no doubt that contact between them is still occuring. But unless OM is Peter Pan and can whisk over the pond in minutes then all they have is "contact". From your WW's point of view, you have the ability to expose the A to her workplace, thus endangering her job. She is looking at loosing her family in a D AND her job, but do you see the leverage you have in the situation?

ICO, breath deep and exhale. Think this one through and plan accordingly. Do not let the roller coaster dictate your actions. Make decisions when you are calm, collected, and focused. I suggest contacting PI service in the UK to confirm exposure to OBS. This is one option at your disposal. You know who the guy is and who he works for and likely what area he lives from his wife's FB about page, right? The PI will find the OBS and get you an address or you can have them expose to the OBS for you. Once exposure is confirmed then wait to see what happens. If your WW gets pissed at you for exposing to the OBS then you confirmed:

a) NC was never in place

b) She places OM as priority over you.

The choice of D becomes even more apparent to you.

I can Overcome,

I just read this entire thread. I am a betrayed wife, so I'm going to give you a different perspective.

Is there anyone reading this that does NOT believe she has already contacted her boyfriend and told him what is going on now?

It is possible. I discovered my H's 15 year affair with his employee almost four years ago. I will describe his reaction. He spilled everything the night I confronted him. He went 'no contact almost immediately. This was because I confronted HER the very next morning and told her to resign. She did. They did meet once, the day after that for a brief chat to discuss her terms of departure. She asked him to meet with her again after that, 'for closure', but I intercepted her email and told her there would be no future contact ever, in person, by phone, email or text, and to consider that closure.

My WH did not appear to experience any form of withdrawal or mourning of the affair. He was home from work promptly every single day and has spent all of his free time with ME ever since. He claims he never loved his MOW, although admits to telling her that he did. He bumped into her accidentally at a mall one lunch hour. He turned and left ASAP, although she did try to speak with him. Why? Because he was SCARED! He was in fear of losing this one slim chance of keeping his wife, family and life as he knew it. He snapped out of his 'fantasy life' VERY quickly.

I couldn't understand how he could have made such a drastic about-face in one day, but he did. I played detective for quite some time (still do occasionally) and am 99.9% sure he has remained NC.

This was probably much easier for him than it was for her. I had two conversations with her and learned that she believed they had a "very deep love for each other". She was very hurt to hear that my WH considered the A purely sexual, not emotional. Had he encouraged contact, she would have been happy to continue the A. She told me as much.

Forgive me if I am generalizing, but it seems that men justify their affairs by telling themselves " It is just sex, I am entitled, no one will find out or be hurt". Women tend to justify their affairs with "But I love the attention I get from him, he makes me feel special, I am in love".

As a woman, I think it would be more difficult to give up these feelings, no matter how distorted they may be.

This is all to say that it may be very possible that your wife is not in contact with her AP on a personal level, but if she is not, it is because the OM is terrified of losing his marriage and has therefore cut her off emotionally.

However, the fact that your wife is encouraging you to take some time for yourselves is not a good sign at all. If she feels remorse and wants your life together to work, she should be stuck to you like glue.

I'm sorry that your life has turned out this way. None of us ever asked for this. We were not given the respect of knowing the truth about our marriages and therefore could not make informed choices.

But we need not be victims either. Take your time. It is on your side right now. You may decide you cannot deal with the betrayal. That is your choice and no one will ever blame you for that.

You may also choose to build a new marriage together. It is possible but it is not easy. We are still trying and it is the most difficult, painful experiences I have ever had. At this point, I still want to try, until I don't.

In spite of the pain (which is not as raw now, but is still present) I believe our relationship to be so much better because it is honest and authentic. I would still feel the pain if we divorced. We comfort each other and support each other and we still miraculously love each other (except for the times when I hate him)!

The advice you are receiving sounds harsh and hard-nosed, but it is right on. You will come to see that it is 100% valid. Many of us have made mistakes in handling this dreadful, devastating whirlwind of crushing emotions. The advice you are being given is in the hope that it will spare you more of the same.

Regarding the Facebook reply from the OBS; it may be authentic. Perhaps she confronted her POS spouse and they decided how to respond to you together. They are British you know, so they may want to cut off communication tersely, and deal with their issues privately and with stiff upper lips!

If it were me in your position, I would insist that your wife make a brief long distance phone call to the OBS, with you present, to apologize for interfering in her marriage. Then you will know that the OBS hasn't believed any possible stories from her POS husband that you are a crazed, jealous and delusional husband. If she is willing to do this, it will prove her dedication to you and show that she is not protecting him.

Again, I'm so sorry. Find strength in your little girls.

As of this second, I don't give a crap about their affair. They can continue having it if they want. I'm done. I'm out.

I have that as a card in my hand. I know her boss' information. I can call HR. It's there for me.

My course was set very clear this morning.

I hope I stick to it.

If it were me in your position, I would insist that your wife make a brief long distance phone call to the OBS, with you present, to apologize for interfering in her marriage. Then you will know that the OBS hasn't believed any possible stories from her POS husband that you are a crazed, jealous and delusional husband. If she is willing to do this, it will prove her dedication to you and show that she is not protecting him.

this is GREAT ADVICE. I did this and my wife did not hesitate for a minute.

And i am sorry but I disagree with letting her have her space and not talking about it. I believe PRESSURE TO KNOCK HER OFF THE FENCE IS THE BETTER WAY TO GO. uNRELENTING PRESSURE TO EITHER SHIT OR GET OFF THE POT

But i would bet my ass that your wife would juimp off a cliff before even considering it.

[This message edited by nononsense at 11:28 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]

I completely concur with that. You'll know exactly what you need to know by her reaction.

Simply say "I know you guys can talk at work so I just need closure. You're sick of talking about this every second, this would go a long way in healing that wound"

You'll know ex-fucking-zactly within 1.5 seconds of saying that if it's even worth thinking of fighting.

I also concur with you that is drop the VAR thought for now. You do not feel comfortable with it, are leaning towards D and the simple fact is that they spend all day talking at work. Their corporate IM is where the juicy stuff happens.

I think he has contacted her.

The email she sent you - she dismissed you. You are dismissed! Conversation over.

Nothing has changed. Everything that you have done and that she has done is very predictable, maybe even normal. Going up and down and loop-de-loop is normal for a roller coaster. Cheating, reconciliation, divorce - all a roller coaster.

I don't think your marriage is dead, not definitely. It could go either way.

But nothing has changed. Nothing will change until something changes.

She has to quit that job. It all revolves around that. She has no "back-door" communication. At another job, she can't communicate that much with him, or she'll get fired. You feel better that she is important to you, the marriage is important to you, she is more important to you and she is more important to your marriage than she is to the job and to the other man. ACTION to get out of that job.

Update the resume. Call a headhunter. This isn't rocket science. All that talking, can't you ask her about that? Are you telling me that you would rather divorce than to tell her to leave her job? What's the worse she could say? No? And then what? You wind up getting divorced, which you already plan? I don't understand you.

1. Tell her you need for her to leave that job, you need to see something happening NOW, not something a week from now or a month from now, TODAY, right now. She had time to go to a workout, but she doesn't have time to update her resume and call a headhunter? Please!

2. Continue the meeting with the divorce. File. Have her served. Tell her that you're serious, you WANT to stay married, you'd LOVE to quash that divorce filing, but you CANNOT stay married if she continues to work there.

Follow the plan and stick to it.

Your wife does not want to deal with her mistakes, she does not want to take the blame or deal with it. And she wanted you out of the house, because all she keeps saying is everyone needs space.

She is a complete a total liar at this and the dangerous part is she is playing you. You need to file for a D first.

When you do, it might wake her up.

You also need to expose her affair to everyone, HR, her parents and the OMs wife.

Do not let her play you anymore. The affair is ongoing still and what happens so many times, which is hard to describe or understand, is that the OM in a way brainwashes the WW.

And the OM can do this because all they tell the WW is everything the WW wants to hear. How bad you are, how unfair you are.

It is very unlikely your wife is going to leave you and her kids and live in the UK, especially since this OM is also married.

Be proactive for YOU and your kids.

Also, do not tell your wife anymore of your plans or thoughts at all. But you could give her a list of what would make YOU feel about better as Bigger suggested. If she cannot even deal with that, that she does have some larger issues in her life.

Do the 180, be indifferent to her.

[This message edited by craig2001 at 1:21 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]

Have to agree ICO. I don't know about the others but I got the same type of message from my WW who 'wanted to try...' Ooops..

- They are still talking

- She is slagging you to everyone she is able to. Image management is VERY important to cheaters. She is likely telling friends and family about your controlling, unpredicatable, 'verbally abusive' ways... She won't mention the affair, just lay the groundwork with 'we have been having trouble for a long time in our marriage because ICO is soooo -insert lie here-'

This is not fair. Her actions will continue to be based in outright lies, omissions, and revisionist history. You will be STUNNED by what may be coming.

The way to deal with it: Exactly as you hinted at. Detach. Remain calm. Businesslike. IF people ask what's going on out of the blue, you can BET she has spoken to them. It's your choice whether to make people aware of the truth if questioned but know this: Cheaters WILL fill in an information vacuum with THEIR narrative.

I am not telling you this to encourage you to play this stupid game - just to make you aware it is probably coming.

Give her nothing to work with. She is NOT your ally right now. Imagine everything you say/send to her being put on display for the AP and her friends/family. Keep that in mind if you DO send her any more emails...

Ex-navy guy. Sorry for the juvenile nautical metaphors.

Ican: You are being handled by your WW. Do not allow her to handle you, or talk down to you, lecture you, or tell you what to do. Her condescending and defiant tone with you is completely out of whack with the situation. She is the bad guy. You are the good guy. You get to call the shots in regards to how, and who, gets to ride on the S.S. Icanovercome future ship.

You can not handle her. Don't try to control her or manipulate her. All you have control over right now-100% control, is over you-yourself, your destiny-your ship. Exercise that control. It's up to her-entirely up to her, if she wants to jump on-board with you. You are the captain of your ship. Everyone admires a guy in control-especially during a storm. A captain with confidence and dignity. Riding with you into the future, on your boat, should include tough conditions that you spell out and enforce. If she rolls an eyeball at any of your conditions, she can get the fuck off your boat. She can go ride in his foundering POS boat. Right now, she is a stowaway. If she wants to stay on-board and sail with you she needs to be grateful, remorseful, respectful, obey the rules and help with the onboard chores.

On your boat, you are entitled to know everything that is going on. The VAR. It's for your personal use. For your personal information. It will help you make informed decisions and give you insight as to what's going on in her head. No one needs to know about it's existence except you. IMHO, I wouldn't worry about the petty theoretical legal risks compared to the enormous risks of living in ignorance. Do a risk vs. gain assessment. Me, I'm going to do what ever it takes to protect my ship and crew.

Focus on, navigate towards, one cardinal intent. To protect you and your future. Focus on that, and that only. Keep your eye on that ball in every decision you make. You need to be selfish right now. You are entitled to be selfish now. You are the injured party. Take control of you and you will have control of your situation and your future. Your WW can follow along if she wishes, if she truly loves you-unconditionally, she should have no problem with that.

When she sees you in action, taking command, she-on some level, is going to dig it, admire it and, so will you.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 2:45 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]

Regarding the Facebook reply from the OBS; it may be authentic. Perhaps she confronted her POS spouse and they decided how to respond to you together. They are British you know, so they may want to cut off communication tersely, and deal with their issues privately and with stiff upper lips!

Utter rubbish :). Stiff upper lips eh?My money is on the message being intercepted by the twat.

Create an anonymous fb profile not linked to you in any shape or form. Use a separate email account, VPN whatever you need to gain complete anonymity. Stake out his her fb profile - see if you can make a list of close friends and family. Expose to everyone.

What's he going to do? Sue you for harassment? Well he needs to prove it was you before he proves that the allegations are false. I'd be mad for seeing those stiff upper lips remain stiff when it blows over.

Coming back to your wife - typical cake eater. Wants to keep you on the hook while getting it on with the bastard. You don't give her ultimatums, you show her that you're more than willing to throw it all away than let her piss all over you. Keep the course and don't let on that you're heading for divorce until she's served. When it comes to dealing with infidelity those kid gloves need to be replaced by knuckle dusters and you need to be ready to fish out ten blows for every hit you take. Any weakness and these fellas will make short work of you - including your dear lovestruck confused little wife.

[This message edited by kronos82 at 2:50 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]

From another thread, just to show you what the betrayed husband and cheating wife may have a different narrative told to others:

When we are talking to therapist, I say "our marriage hit a rough spot and we are working on R". Therapist asks for more details because towards the end I reiterate the magnitude of what had occurred. I want to say "she slept with her boss". WS wants to say "He was playing video games, masturbating, not sleeping in our bed so I got emotionally disconnected".

If you leave the house, will you or your wife tell other people - parents, siblings, friends? What will your wife say? No matter. When she leaves that job, the prognosis of your marriage staying will go from 25% to 75%.