SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You are in despair mode. When people refer to the maelstrom of emotions, this is one of them.

Allow yourself to despair and accept it as a consequence of what she did to you. All of these things were factors into her falling in love with someone else, and she chose the other man knowing that these consequences could occur. This is what needs to be healed more than 'fixing' her.

Your wife is supposed to be your life partner and someone that you can rely on through thick and thin. If she can't be this person or you don't want her to be, then the decision just needs to be made. And allow yourself to grieve for what was lost but don't allow yourself to yearn for what doesn't exist anymore. The marriage that existed doesn't exist anymore.

Also...your job today is to get his wife on the phone. Use all your resources to accomplish this. Taking positive action is what you need.

I am not doing the VAR. It's illegal in my state.

OK. its illegal in your state as in a lot of others. She ain't going to spend money suing you over it especially if you do not try to use it as anything but for your own information. Big mistake but your call.

Well, my friend, POLYGRAPHs are NOT illegal at all so you need to be thinking about that because I do not think one person here has advised you to rely on her word for ANYTHING. When the entire group on a thread this length says the same thing, you can count on it being correct.

You have just eliminated your best option to catch her. What about a "keylogger???

Even if she quits the job, he has already traveled to the US on business so if they communicate you will still be in the dark.

I think you need to let her know you are seeing an attorney since you are probably not going to catch her so quick. You need to knock her out of her little dream that she can now ask for space to take control back and have you playing the pick me game. if she knows you are seeing an attorney and just walks away it would have happened anyway. you have got to stop being scared of her. Her telling SHE was tired of the rollercoaster does not bode well. She better get fucking used to you triggering and asking questions for a long time.

No one is sticking a fork in you. What we are doing is trying to stand behind you and guide you out of this fucking wilderness you are in .

Two members, Sybo and Badsitch, have detailed you their recent situations where they did not take the advice right away and did all the wrong thing. read what they wrote and learn from their pain

You do not want to endure this because of not acting in your interests. She does not have the "high" ground on anything here.

What would your wife need to do to convince you the affair is over and she’s committed to the marriage?

Just as an exercise list what you require.

What would your wife need to do to convince you the affair is over and she’s committed to the marriage?

Just as an exercise list what you require.

great question from BIGGER. And it would answer the idiot MC you are seeing who wants you to prove she is not lying.

I'd put Polygraph on the top of list.

Rather than polygraph the requirement is “assurance for the truth” and/or “assurance that I know all”.

The solutions or ways to get those requirements met could be:

a) Timeline (you need to list what details you want in the timeline)

b) Verification to the timeline (expense reports, phone logs etc)

c) Polygraph

If you do create a list of what you need so your wife can convince you then focus on the requirements rather than the solutions or the tools to meet those requirements.

It’s a good strategy to ask in broad terms and narrow it down if you aren’t getting the answers you need.

For example: Let’s say you tell her you need to feel assured. That is a very broad demand and she can come up with numerous ways to offer assurance. Some of those ways might not even be in your head right now like online access to her work phone- and messenger application logs (if using Skype or Lync). If you make the demand too detailed right in the beginning she will comply but maybe not offer more than is requested.

Hey, I'm so glad you're back with us, and more importantly, with yourself!

Don't worry about it, everyone stumbles and falls occassionally, but you picked yourself up immediately! It's a roller-coaster, but all in all you've been doing really well.

How's IC progressing for you? I really encourage you to talk as much as possible not only with friends&family, but also an IC.

And keep talking to us, we're here for you, always!

Best wishes

I think I am playing for a D now.

This is an email she sent to me after I sent her one saying that I would fight for her and our family:

Please just stop with this kind of thing for now. We just need some space. I know you think this isn't "talking about things" but this is still rubbing salt in the wound, so please just stop for a bit. You are not done talking about things if you keep emailing me your latest stance on things. I just want to stop talking about plans, how we feel every second of the day... ups / downs... it's exhausting.

Let me see what the rest of the day looks like and we can go from there. It would be better if we could just take care of the kids separately after school and then give each other space after they are asleep. Please just leave this alone and I'll be in touch later today.

I think I am playing for a D now.

ICan,

I think you need to at least file that petition, let her get served and see what happens. It may wake her up, and make her realize what she's risking, it may not. It may be, based on the tone of that email, that your WW has already emotionally checked out of your marriage, is no longer emotionally invested enough in you and her family for it to matter to her. If that's the case, then I refer back to a comment I made earlier:

I worry that if I do serve her with divorce papers that may be the end of it. She may decide that it isn't worth going through all of this.

Consider that statement for a minute. Let's say you do file D papers. Let's say your WW upon seeing them immediately throws in the towel and takes off. What's that say about her commitment to R? Would you want to stay married to someone who didn't want to be there? Who didn't want to put in the years of hard work (and it takes years -- ask some of the guys here that have successfully R'd) that R will take? If that were to happen you'd still be better off than you are today.

Think about that, and tell me where you'd rather be in a year, in two years, and in five years.

[This message edited by tbkjcn at 9:35 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]

I think I am playing for a D now.

This is an email she sent to me after I sent her one saying that I would fight for her and our family:

Please just stop with this kind of thing for now. We just need some space. I know you think this isn't "talking about things" but this is still rubbing salt in the wound, so please just stop for a bit. You are not done talking about things if you keep emailing me your latest stance on things. I just want to stop talking about plans, how we feel every second of the day... ups / downs... it's exhausting.

Let me see what the rest of the day looks like and we can go from there. It would be better if we could just take care of the kids separately after school and then give each other space after they are asleep. Please just leave this alone and I'll be in touch later today.

Yes. D is what she is playing for now, too. remember this?--->

She told me that I need time away.

<---my alarm bells are going off.

I am not doing the VAR. It's illegal in my state.

Owning one isn't illegal. And owning one that happens to fall out of your pocket isn't illegal either. No one is suggesting that Perry Mason use the recordings in court. I never did the VAR thing, either. But my case appears much different from yours. Rmember, this is about self-preservation, not 'sneaky'. Good luck, ICO.

I'm fucking livid after that email. That changed my whole perspective on this situation.

I posted that link to Joseph's letter earlier to give you a way to make your WW feel "safe" in telling your the truth and a way for her to understand "why" you need that timeline. Modify that letter according your situation. The intent of giving it to her is to disarm any notion she may have in that telling you the truth will result immediately in D. I think the letter does a good job explaining why you need these details and that timeline. She says she wants the M, right? This is one of the requirements for you to "consider" R and that is you need to know what you are really dealing with, how deep this rabbit hole of their A goes. If she complies and starts writing it out then THERE is one action from her you can observe and evaluate.

This emotional roller coaster is the worst. You will vacillate back and forth between D, R, and limbo. All I suggest is never ever stay in limbo. To stay out of limbo you have to keep doing that 180 and focus your happiness with your daughters and spend more time with them, schedule activities with them, leave the door for your WW to participate but don't require her presence. Make the home environment "safe and happy" while you quietly get your ducks in a row for a D in case you need to execute it. You may not feel this way but you actually hold all the cards in your situation. It is YOU who is going to make the ultimate decision. Realize that your WW has not ditched you and your girls to go run off the OM. She still comes home, which means you have leverage against her. She tells YOU to leave so that she has the leverage. Don't leave again. Stay for your kids, not for her.

As hard as it is to wrap your mind around how to get by from day to day, the only thing I could come up with in my situation was to pretend that my wife had died all of a sudden and that "I am now a single dad". Ask yourself if that situation ever actually occurred what would you do? Would you mope around forever and neglect your children? I don't think you would. I think you would pick yourself up after your period of grieving, hug your kids and talk about a hopeful future and start planning better days with them. I started working out more, cooking more, changed my wardrobe and groomed myself better because that's what a single guy would do to be "marketable" on the dating scene, but in this case I wasn't going to really date. I was just being prepared. In the mean time, I had this adult woman with a teenage mindset who lived in our house as a temp Mom/wife that was under probation. My then WW didn't know I was set on D anyway because for me an A is a dealbreaker. I just needed her to chill out while I worked with my attorney for D. During that "probationary" period, she proved to me that D was the right choice.

ICO, give you wife that letter and see what she does. Sometimes writing down a timeline has the effect of kicking her off that fence as well as waywards sometimes realize what is being put down on paper changes from fantasy to an ugly betrayal. But by all means, get the petition ready just in case.

Take Bigger's advice to heart. The OM is on the other side of the Altantic. You have some time to your advantage so you don't feel pressured take drastic measures in such a short period of time. Take a deep breath and breath out slowly when the anxiety hits. Start with the request for a timeline of the A for the time being.

I think I am playing for a D now.

This is an email she sent to me after I sent her one saying that I would fight for her and our family:

Please just stop with this kind of thing for now. We just need some space. I know you think this isn't "talking about things" but this is still rubbing salt in the wound, so please just stop for a bit. You are not done talking about things if you keep emailing me your latest stance on things. I just want to stop talking about plans, how we feel every second of the day... ups / downs... it's exhausting.

Let me see what the rest of the day looks like and we can go from there. It would be better if we could just take care of the kids separately after school and then give each other space after they are asleep. Please just leave this alone and I'll be in touch later today.

Being pissed is not necessarily a bad thing. Let me translate the above e mail for you. What she is saying is

"I have been fucking another man for a year and I am not sure i want to give him up yet. I was willing to CONSIDER it if you gave me enough leeway to decide, especially if he is on vacation and I did not have to talk to him every day. But you have made it uncomfortable for me by refusing to let me shit on you any more without objecting, so I need space from you. now you wait like a good little boy while I decide what i want to do""

So if you were not pissed there would be something wrong with you. And I hope you know have a better understanding why most of us have been pushing you to do what is good for YOU.

Now, my guess is the next thing you will hear is this

"I think i want to stay married to you, but i just cannot give him up cold turkey and I need some time to be able to grieve for him. So I can no longer commit to no contact at all for a while. But i think we should continue to go to MC to try to work it out"

And my guess is the moron MC you are seeing will be taking your money and agree she needs some time to get over it and you should just give her some consideration to show you love her. if the MC was not a quack they would tell her to get the fuck out of the office and that they do not do marriage therapy to active cheaters.

Please do yourself a favor and get to the attorney.

Is there anyone reading this that does NOT believe she has already contacted her boyfriend and told him what is going on now?

Just curious

Sounds like your eyes are opening. This is good.

Is there anyone reading this that does NOT believe she has already contacted her boyfriend and told him what is going on now?

Not even a little bit.

The affair is continuing. She is lying.

Get the VAR for you. Keep it on you at all times. She wants you out. She's manipulative and vindictive..you need to protect yourself against the shit she is going to make up about you.

That email? Shows zero remorse.

I have a VAR. I am going to keep it on me. In my state it is legal as long as you have one way consent.

I will consult with the lawyer tomorrow.

This really opened my eyes. She's too exhausted to deal with me grappling with the issues from HER AFFAIR.

I'm 99% sure I'm done. I can't trust her and apparently I bother her. Fuck that.

ICO

You lack focus.

She’s correct – you are all over the place.

That comment about fighting for her and the family… What the f@ck was that? Is her not being in an affair within your abilities? Can you control that? Can you prevent her from being in infidelity if that’s what she chooses to be?

You tell her one minute you are leaving and go through the drama of packing a bag. Then the next you aren’t leaving. Then that you are fighting for her… All over the place.

Has she contacted her BF? Yes, probably. After all you gave her the go-ahead because of the work situation. But was it to plan their trip on a unicorn into the sunset on a golden beach? No – doubt it. It was probably damage control. Damage control both ways… as in “we better cool it” rather than “this has to end forever”.

If she’s the typical WW then in her mind the affair is over. But if she’s the typical WW then it will rekindle unless YOU take the steps we have suggested to fully do your best to stamp it out. Expose expose expose! HR, OMW…

What you do is you finally read the strategy I suggested and implement it.

“Wife. I love you and would really want this marriage to work. BUT I realize two things: One is that this marriage is already dead and it died the moment you decided to have an affair. The second is that although a divorce might be tough it beats the HELL out of sharing you with another man. So until and unless you verbally commit to the marriage, enabling us to possibly recreate a new one based on the foundations of the old, then I’m simply assuming the affair is ongoing and I am moving out of infidelity”

That way YOU have the control. It’s not her call if you share house or don’t talk or whatever. It’s YOUR CALL.

Tell her this and then TOTALLY cut off communications unless directly connected to the kids. Don’t be angry, don’t be confrontational. Just move on. Let her simmer and stew and let her have the concerns because YOU are moving out of infidelity.

FOCUS FOCUS FOCUS!!!

I am going to keep it on me.

Good. This is how you stay out of jail for false charges.

This is a rollercoaster, a marathon, there is no quick easy solution. Even if you divorce in the next three weeks and she gives you everything, all the emotional crap will still hit you. 3-5 years of it.

Eyes open. Mouth shut. Keep your cards close to your chest. She'll either show you she gets it or show you she doesn't. Right now? She is showing you she doesn't. That doesn't mean it won't change, but keep your eyes open. She's had how long now to practice lying and manipulating you? Eyes open.

I have a VAR. I am going to keep it on me. In my state it is legal as long as you have one way consent.

Not sure,. Are you joint owner on her car? Is the computer in your home considered joint owned?

If you are on the car registration i believe you can be the consenting one on it in the car.

She will put the final touch on by telling you that since you two need space anyway that she is going on the business trip to UK instead of the employee she said she would send. But of course it will be for "business".

[This message edited by nononsense at 10:31 AM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]

Dude...I know the hell you are in...and when I take a tough stance is because, like nononsense points out, I did NOT take a hard stance with my WW. IN truth, I actually did a few things the right way..like a VAR in the car. I nailed her on VAR not only breaking NC...but making PLANS of a future w/ him, trashing me, things they needed to make sure I didn't find out, etc. Before the VAR it was all guesswork. Now here is where I was really a fool...I gave her another chance...even after hearing that horrible shit....and what followed was 3 months of false R, MC, lies, deception and ultimately a devastating final DDAY that was far worse than those that preceded it. The mistake was not filing for D the next day, or at very least continuing to use the VAR on her. **To this day i don't recall why I stopped with the VAR...I think It's because I wanted to believe in R soooo bad I was in denial or something...lesson learned.

I don't know the laws in your state but from what I have read all she can do is sue you and I think the cost to sue you may be more than what she can actually get should you lose in a VAR case.

If you have an old or spare smartphone that works you can download a free VAR app and use that instead. It also will make any legal action if found a bit tough to prove because it's a phone..not a recording device. And if you don't ever give her a clue about it and hide it well she will never know.

My WW is such an idiot she knows I've VAR'd her in the past...but even last week I threw the old phone in her car and got some juicy bits while she talked to her precious 23 year old nail boy for 40 minutes. It didn't make me mad or sad at all...it just reinforced my desire, strength and resolve to D her and never look back.

Now on to your WW's email:

It's all about HER isn't it...salt in HER wound. SHe wants space...mine wanted to separate when caught...they all pull the same crap. My WW was/is also in love with her AP...mine also would have loved if we never talked about it...mine also wanted ME to leave to give HER space. And now after an insufferable 7 months...mine is about to have her life nuked by my attorney (I hope).

She either faces it...and fights for YOU...or you have to get the D ball rolling...because you do not want this to go on.

Really sorry...but I can really see you saying and doing the same things I did and I'd hate to see ANYONE go through what i did and still am.

Give this a read:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/archives.asp?tid=469167