SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

With regards to exposure, his wife likely already knows that ICO has attempted to expose her boyfriend. She's googling to be contrite and play her cards close because that's the only way that her affair door gets left open.

That why the optimal move here is to shift the burden to her. 1. The element of surprise is likely gone and if it isn't then 2. If she is fully-engaging reconciliation then the first 1.5 seconds will tell ICO the *precise* story. If it's anything other than open, accepting eyes and 'of course' then either she knows or she doesn't know and she doesn't want to close the door.

Most kris here think that it is likely it was intercepted. I happen to agree. But at some point you can't completely jump to conclusions. This method will allow him to not jump to conclusions, not do anything ethically grey and allow him to continue to take the high road. At the same time, beyond strategic reasons, it's cranking her screws a bit and that good. She deserves a bit of it and let's face it, until she accepts a hard consequence it's going to continue to be lollipops and rug sweeping.

Or ICO can say fuck it and just divorce her. Either way :/

Eric you forgot to take into account that having the wife do it will allow for ample time on her part to hash it out with the other man and formulate a plan to make it seem like the affair has been expose - like getting someone to act as a stand in for the obs. Who knows they might've done that already.

Her earlier request for space clearly shows that she is not invested in Reconciliation. She's definitely going to think twice before going ahead with that phone call.

If you're desperate to R, ico, then you need to make sure you actually get in touch with the obs. But it might be a complete waste of time either way

[This message edited by kronos82 at 3:42 PM, July 22nd (Wednesday)]

I got pissed when I read her email. She is NOT REMORSEFUL ... you do not get 'fatigued' and need space when remorseful. She is still being selfish cold and dismissive ... which is more clear than any VAR ... (although the VAR will help)

There is no R without remorse because remorse is the fuel that keeps R going. With no remorse she will continue to torment you with her bullshit games. She is not in NC with the OM.

I think you instinctively felt this when you read her email and now you are firmly grounded within the reality you are facing.

Do the 180. Detach and observe, gather information and start looking at her with clear detached eyes. Protect all your interests now. She has shown you she just can not be trusted. She broke that. Guard your heart STRONGLY.

I agree Reddawn

ICO - She has told you what she wants - you gone for now. I am sorry that you are about to enter an even more hell than you've been through up to this point.

It's War. And, it will start when one of you leaves - please never leave. Force her out for 30 days so 'YOU can think about things'.

Pay for a nice motel room if you have to.

Keep exercising, eating well and getting good sleep. You need all the energy you have right now. (For me, I was glad I was a good chess player because that came in handy)

Keep ahead of her every step of the way - this is where SI is invaluable with so many tips. It kept me on the right path. Do what is right for you and your girls.

So sorry you are here - wishing you strength and courage.

ICO

I am sure most of us are hoping you DID keep the attorney appointment today and that you have not backslid into letting her do to you what she feels like

Hoping you are staying with the position you were staring yesterday after receiving that fucked home mail from her treating youome a puppy dog .

How'd the apt go? Scarier than you thought or not as scary?

Ok, giving an update.

I don't know if I am sad to admit this or not, but I did not keep the lawyer appointment. Honestly, I just about had a breakdown.

I was filled with a lot of fear and anger.

I stayed at my brother's house that night. She sent me an email saying that it was ok, so I had a paper trail. We were both worried about the other one trying to take the kids away from each other.

I was deep into a spiral on Wednesday and I started to come out of it after my brother and WW talkd to me some more. I then started to get better and had a session with my IC that day.

I have been better since then. Honestly, I know you guys are trying to help but you scare the shit out me too. I know I need it, but really I needed a break from it all.

We had a pretty good weekend and I think my WW is trying to be open and honest. Yes I got some trickle truth on Thursday night. I got the timeline. Not in writing but clear enough. I am good with that.

She has been very good about not being on her phone. She is telling me when she has a meeting with this guy and when she had a work dinner, she forwards me the invite to see.

I am giving some trust here. I know you can't nice someone back, but right now we are attempting to be civil to one another and work from there.

We went out on Saturday night. Yes, I set it up and I told her that she can go if she wants otherwise I could take her to go hang out with some of her friends.

We had a nice time but she was in kind of a funk. I get it. I try to be understanding.

Right now, we are attempting to live our lives and try to get past this. We are attempting to get to the bottom of why the affair happened. A lot of this will be on her side, but as she gets further away from DDay, maybe we can make some progress.

She is still confused. I feel 95% sure that she is doing the NC. At this point, I will never feel 100%, at least not for some time.

We both admitted to setting up a meeting with lawyers last Thursday and we both canceled them.

I am trying to forgive her, move away from the affair and into a new life. I don't want to sweep it under the rug. I do want to be able to start something new or find out if it isn't possible.

We are a lot more open and honest now. Sometimes that's good and sometimes it is not :p That's ok. It's something.

I will check in now. I am following most of the rules of the 180. Not all of them. I am also taking care of me. I am working out every day and eating less.

NMMNG has been helping as well. If nothing else, hopefully I come out with a better me.

ICO-

Thanks for the update. R is possible, in fact that is what I'm in. A marriage can survive this traumatic event. But please just make sure she is a safe partner. What do I mean- a safe partner will offer you full disclosure/transparency. She will be willing to "hurt herself" by talking about the painful details and answering all of YOUR questions because she knows that the wound she has caused you is more critical than her own. She will move Heaven and Earth to win back your trust. Don't just give her your trust, make her earn back your trust. In time you will see her heart. Actions speak louder than words and she will show her love daily by acknowledging that she is a broken individual and actively seek out help (read books, seek IC, etc). She will ask you regularly what you need from her to rebuild trust. She will understand your need to ask the same questions over and over again if that is what you need to fill the gaps in your mind and understand. She will be patient and realize that there may be days/moments that you want her close and others where you prefer your own space. It is a process. Remember R is a gift. Make sure she earns it and don't just grant it without laying a proper foundation that will hopefully prevent another DD.

R is possible and there can be a wonderful marriage with the WS after infidelity...but it takes a lot of work and the onus is on her. She doesn't get to dictate or suggest the terms of your R. Just try to avoid being a fixer. It is up to her to search and determine what was broken in her and repair it. You can encourage her but not do the work for her.

You love your wife. I get this. Just proceed with caution and don't be so anxious to move forward that you end up rug sweeping and talk yourself out of the pursuit of truth. Both of you read How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair. I wish you the best on your journey. Continue to post so we can encourage and support you as needed along the way.

my friend, we are not the ones you should be scared of.

You got more TT, and you will get more. She gets to keep all her friends, probably including the one who encouraged this affair, and she totally has backed you down.

She cheated on you for a year, still has not totally committed as evidenced by her, the cheater, going to an attorney before you because you would not give her space to decide. She cancelled the appointment but why would she who was not the betrayed make one in the first place.

I guess I totally miusunderstood because I thought he was in UK, and now you are talking about her giving you schedule of meetings with him, or is that phone meetings.???

And with what you two have going on she even considered hanging out with friends like nothing ever happened.???

Probably 90% of those responding to you , who have heard just about everything, do not believe anything she has done shows that this affair of hers is anywhere near over.

If you take the time and read thiese forums, you will see the track record of those that ignore that opinion is not good

Don't lose the SI address. You will need more support next time and they will all be here for you.

[This message edited by nononsense at 10:33 PM, July 27th (Monday)]

ICO, you should still go see an attorney. Don't tell anyone this time that you are seeing one. You need to eliminate one very big fear of an unknown, and that is your outcome if a D actually happens. If you have a good idea of this scenario it will not scare you into upholding boundaries with your WW and requiring accountability from her. You should also continue getting your ducks in a row should get another Dday. Be prepared for the worst, but hope for the best.

You would need a 2x4 of epic proportions, but I reckon it would be probably useless until you get hit hard in the face by the facts once again.

It's sad really, it's like being there watching a train wreck happening, and nothing we can do will be of any use to avoid it.

Guess you won't listen to no one until it's too late. Too bad, some people are wired like that

1. If you took her out in Saturday then you may need to review the 180.

2. By taking her out you're also allowing her cake eating. The message that she has received is that it is ok to have an affair

3. She lied to you for a loooooooong time. Why is she telling the exact, precise truth now? She isn't

4. You have to let her boyfriend's wife know. Even if your trust is warranted he will keep on and keep on trying. He has no consequences and your wife will break down. She loves him.

Thanks for the update. I can understand you needing a break from it.

I still recommend you expose to the boyfriend's wife/gf, getting a detailed timeline from your WW and then schedule a polygraph.

Keep talking to us, we're here for you!

Best wishes

I am listening and I am trying to make sure that if there is a DDay#2, then that's it. There will be no third DDay. No second attempt after infidelity.

She knows my position well. It has come up in our MC sessions and I have not let up at all.

She works with him, not face-to-face on a daily basis, but they send emails and they are in groups together. It sucks. On this point, I have to trust a little bit. If she cannot control herself and I find out, then it's over. I will not do this again.

I am giving this a try for the kids and for the old memories of the love we shared. Maybe it will work out. I am trying not to sabotage it by pre-determining that there will be a divorce.

I read something that says that you have to decide to get past an affair. I believe that. I am trying to get past it as difficult as it is. I get hit by triggers on a daily basis but I'm not curled up in a ball crying.

Regardless of the outcome, I am going to forgive and move on. That's for me. That's not for her. I want to be the happy person I've always been. As my username says, I can overcome. If there is a DDay #2, then I will know that I have tried my best and that's that.

It's not that I don't want help. I do. And I am getting help on many fronts. I just want to get to the root of why the affair happened. At least my part in getting her to that point. She has to figure some shit out herself.

If there were the right walls up, it never would have happened. I don't even know if either of us will ever be back in love with the other.

you are doing a 180 while trying to forgive and reconcile. That makes no sense.

She has steamrolled you and you keep having breakdowns.

You are in for a life of being cheated on and being a cuckold unless you find your inner strength and stand up for yourself. You have wavered from being strong to being weak and back and forth.

Do more reading on co-dependency. Make another attorney appointment and stick by it. You are going to get screwed again. You gave her no consequences.

Breakdowns happen man. I know I've had more of them over this than I ever expected. I know I've been weaker here than I wanted to. I know that the standard operating procedure developed here, I second guessed myself on constantly.

I have always been the nice guy, empathetic, compassionate, understanding, etc. It went totally against my grain to do these things. Especially to a woman I love.

Saying it was hard was an understatement. Saying I was always successful is a lie.

And I didn't do everything right in healing. My gut reaction was to drink it away--took me doing it several times to realize that it only made the pain worse.

The two saving graces I had was this place and my journal. In my journal I was able to get the poison out. I was able to write out and see just how much my wife was manipulating me. I didn't realize just how susceptible I was to her. Google 'pity play' or 'emotional blackmail' to get an idea of what I was dealing with. And if I hadn't been writing her words out, I would probably still be twisted in knots over things she said. Not saying that your wife is doing this to you, but that this is something else I dealt with too. And that you may want to keep your eyes open to it.

And the journal let me do one other thing. It gave me a place to construct my 'battle plan'. Not sure what the official SI name for it is, but I elaborated on what that is on page 2 of this thread:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=566270&HL=44389

Right now, it's okay to feel like your marriage, and your family's lives are in a state of emergency. That's freaking normal. So, I guess besides saying that I've been there, I'm also suggesting that you take a look at a battle plan and construct one of your own. Somewhere she can't find it.

It helped me with the anxiety. Not knowing the future, or being scared of what that future might be. It helped me to figure out what my next chess moves were.

Wishing you strength, brother!

Oh my. Totally not what I was expecting when I saw your update.

I will keep this short and to the point:

Your wife was (maybe still is) still in love with this guy. When they talk on the phone, even if it is "just for business," do you think those emotions are gone?

Think about that for a few minutes. You have allowed yourself to have an open marriage and only one end is open. You have chosen to remain in infidelity - a position that is far, far worse than divorce.

Good luck. You are going to need it.

Good luck with your rugsweeping.

We will be here for you after dday #2.

I don't want to rug sweep. I know that much.

I am going to bring this stuff in IC and see how she says I should respond.

I don't want to make any decisions until the three month mark.

I may set up something with a lawyer. I know the usefulness of this.

I have made it very clear that this is over if anything happens again. I can't say that I've been crazy dictating things but I've had a very clear stance.