SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am listening and I am trying to make sure that if there is a DDay#2, then that's it. There will be no third DDay. No second attempt after infidelity.

She knows my position well. It has come up in our MC sessions and I have not let up at all.

She works with him, not face-to-face on a daily basis, but they send emails and they are in groups together. It sucks. On this point, I have to trust a little bit. If she cannot control herself and I find out, then it's over. I will not do this again.

I am giving this a try for the kids and for the old memories of the love we shared. Maybe it will work out. I am trying not to sabotage it by pre-determining that there will be a divorce.

I read something that says that you have to decide to get past an affair. I believe that. I am trying to get past it as difficult as it is. I get hit by triggers on a daily basis but I'm not curled up in a ball crying.

Regardless of the outcome, I am going to forgive and move on. That's for me. That's not for her. I want to be the happy person I've always been. As my username says, I can overcome. If there is a DDay #2, then I will know that I have tried my best and that's that.

It's not that I don't want help. I do. And I am getting help on many fronts. I just want to get to the root of why the affair happened. At least my part in getting her to that point. She has to figure some shit out herself.

If there were the right walls up, it never would have happened. I don't even know if either of us will ever be back in love with the other.

I get this. I really do. Going in to R, you have to want it. And I think you do. Good luck, ICO.

Please (Please!) keep an eye on the work thing. I worry about there not being NC. Stay strong. Take care of YOU. And keep posting. Over on the Reconciliation page, there is a lot of wisdom. Since you're going R, go over there and visit some. It isn't as "raw" as the Just Found Out area.

Good luck.

I'm here for you if you need.

Actually, I'm not sure if I am going the R route. I know it seems like it. I really don't know if I can get over this.

I have to forgive to move on, that's for myself. I do not have stay in the marriage though. I want to wait until he three month mark and do an assessment.

Right now everything is too raw to make a good decision.

I am considering R but the fact that I will never be able to trust her is very concerning to me.

Out of curiosity then why are you not telling your wife's boyfriend's spouse?

If you expose the affair then not only are you doing right by her, but you are stopping their ongoing relationship. By doing this you're logically opening up your options to include reconciliation.

You do realize that there is literally no way that this isn't still going on, right? You don't just "get over" a love affair, particularly with your wife's significant other still pushing for it (which we can be more than reasonably expected to be occurring)

I just want to get to the root of why the affair happened. At least my part in getting her to that point. She has to figure some shit out herself.

You're not getting this until she's out of the affair. You're content with letting her remain in it.

[This message edited by eric1 at 8:41 AM, July 28th (Tuesday)]

Icanovercome .... you do not want a DDAY 2 ... and you are so early out from the first one .. I know you are tired and want your normal life back .. if you feel tired now trust me ... DDAY 2 will only be worse. I did what you are doing ,, i wanted to trust and I wanted to be the beautiful happy person I was .. I wanted to keep seeing him the same I wanted things to go back to the way they were .. and so I put a little bit of trust in him and you know what he did? he kept doing what he was doing .. False R hurts more than anything.

We are talking about her stepping out of your marriage for one year. And her efforts seem lukewarm at best. That is why everyone is worried about you. When they come back with lukewarm efforts the onus is then placed on the betrayed to do the rest of the work and that just does not work out the way we want. If every betrayed could fix it by doing the work then all these relationships would be working.

Just look at the site ... look at the sheer volume of BSs compared to WWs .. look who are motivated to understand.

Right now I believe you are far more motivated than she is and that is a red flag.

She is not inspiring any of us to believe she is 100 percent in, so why are you so willing to accept so little after all you have gone through? That is truly the question you should ask yourself.

Keep posting, keep journalling. this is a rocky journey and your emotions change from one day to the next. everyone here gets it. We are here for you.

What should she be doing? Is there a post where it is summed up well?

I'm having trouble deciding what is good enough and what isn't. She seems more transparent. I can't really fault her for her efforts lately.

I feel like she is starting to get it. Maybe it is me trusting too much but it seems like it.

I did tell his wife but I can't be 100% she got it and it wasn't intercepted.

His affair gmail account is fully gone. That is a new development after I told her. Always the doubt in me wonders if he has a new one. There is also a chance that she had him delete it.

What is she doing that shows she is not getting it?

make a list of what she has DONE?

on one side write down all the actions she took to start and maintain an affair for one year. On the other side write down what she is now doing to save the marriage.

It takes a tremendous amount of effort to maintain a clandestine affair and she was willing to put that effort into OM.

She gave a timeline and is in IC and MC. But she has not quit that job or shown ACTIVE steps to find something else. She is TAKING CREDIT for future plans. And you are giving her credit for things she has not done yet.

Her remorse ... what is she doing to demonstrate remorse?

deleting a gmail account does not impress me ... she works with the guy.

Remorse is the fire that keeps R going. True remorse will not tire ... you will know in time when she becomes irritated with you for even bringing the affair up. False remorse reveals itself in time. Trust me on that one.

You've got a lot of good information, and most of it is given in this fashion to new members because we know just how crazy and lost it feels to have just found out. So it's spoon fed, or it's shoved down your throat, or any other of the ways you've seen here.

But once that initial trauma of being hit by a train happens, the recommendation is to come up with a strategy to get what you want and to deal with the emotional healing.

So, no, there isn't a post that's going to cover all of it. Because everyone has a different context. Your battle-plan is your battle plan.

For some people, their wayward spouses might be totally anti-legal and prefer divorce over postnup even if they really do want reconciliation. For others, holding some sort of emotional collateral (grandma's ashes) is viewed as an obscene method of control. For some, the investigative mode is just too much. It all depends on you and what is going to work best for you to get you where you want to be.

It sounds like to you, that you don't want to make the decision to R or D until you know whether or not you can live with yourself in a marriage after an affair. And that's okay. That's the route I took, so I understand.

That doesn't mean you don't need a battle-plan. This is a fight. You fight for your marriage or to get out of it. You fight the pain. You fight the negative impact on you and your families lives. You reduce the risks for you and you create greater risks for your wayward if they cheat again. Or you reduce the risks you face in divorce while creating greater risks for your spouse should they try to take you to the cleaners.

Kinda make sense?

My XWSO expressed a great deal of remorse early on .. he went to four counseling sessions. Then he got very tired of it about a month out. He then started blameshifting, becoming angry anytime I brought it up, he was INCONSISTENT, he started gaslighting .. with small bouts of 'remorse' in between ... it was bloody awful. He resented anytime I got sad or depressed and made it about him.

I look back and it was never consistent. I was doing most of the work. And I made plenty of mistakes after DDAY 1 .. i was lurking on here but not sharing and posting. I did not start sharing until DDAY 2 hit me like a freight train.

Notthevictim just laid down some solid gold.

Read that post again. And then again. And then again.

Yes, we understand the shitstorm. We're here to help. No, you don't need to know whether you'll R or D right now; it is all so new, and you'd be lying to yourself if you 'really' knew how to think and feel so early in this game.

But you do need a plan. You're either fighting for your M, or a D with self-respect. And mostly, you're fighting for your own state of mind.

Life just slapped you upside the head. Now. Let's take care of that. We are here to help.

So, no, there isn't a post that's going to cover all of it.

The above was perfectly said to you. You are thrashing around looking for a magic bullet that will make this all go away and you are not going to find it. Again, we are up to almost 20 pages here and there has been no one really tell you that you are not being somewhat of a patsy here.

EVERYONE who has gone through this must be crazy then I guess.

it started out when you confronted her she was willing to quit job, then willing to look for another job, then willing to drop girlfriends that you demanded, and has deteriorated to the point where she still talks to him multiple times a day (NONE OF US CAN BELIEVE YOU ARE SO NAIVE THAT YOU THINK THIS IS ALL BUSINESS), still is getting encouragement from her girlfriend because you have not put your foot down on ANYTHING.

None of what you are doing means a damm thing unless she has stopped interacting with him, which while understandable not today ( well maybe) but it is now off the table. She carries on a year long affair and is only sorry she got caught, and then SHE goes to an attorney to protect herself so that she can continue to cake eat at your expense.

that is not how the game plan is supposed to work my friend. it is supposed to be the WW who desparately want her BH to offer her the GIFT of R.

You were on the right track when you said you were going to file for D/ NOT BECAUSE YOU NEED TO END IN D. but because she needs to understand there will be no CAKE EATING.

now from her reactions to everything, she is giving you CRUMBS and you are lapping them up. YOU CAN STOP A DIVORCE ANYTIME YOU WANT TO , but it appears you are really afraid she will just sign the papers and stay with her OM.

Now, a number of people have told you the next D Day that you THINK you are prepared for is worse. I can assure you it will be because not only will you be betrayed again but you are going to kick yourself around the block and feel like a true idiot. I am NOT calling you that. i am telling you how you are going to feel, and a number of folks who have had that experience (SYBO AND BADSITCH) have tried to illustrate it clearly for you.

So i will tell you again. Your wife has not shown any indication by your own words she is sorting it ouit. that means you are still sitting there HOPING she picks you.

FORGET THE MAGIC BULLET and maybe you can salvage your marriage and your dignity. it is not impossible IF you start calling the shots.

ICO- take a look at my post at 11:05 pm on yesterday. It will give you an indication of what remorse looks like. Remember the onus is on HER to make YOU feel safe. Any remorseful partner will move heaven and earth to make things right.

Good luck.

His affair gmail account is fully gone. That is a new development after I told her. Always the doubt in me wonders if he has a new one. There is also a chance that she had him delete it.

This is because she told him, and they decided to cover their tracks. There is only one reason the account should be deleted - ONE. So his wife doesn't find it.

He and your wife did a good job of clearing their tracks. All you need to do is speak to his wife for one moment on the phone to put their work to death.

I'll donate $100 to your favorite charity if his "week vacation" was just a moratorium so that he could get his ducks in a row.

If you don't want to call his wife I will for you. I will PM you my phone number and I am happy to chat with you on the phone about this, what your wife should be doing, etc. Once you are comfortable I am comfortable giving her the talk. I am saying this to be friendly, I truly want to help, but I also hope that you realize that me offering stuff like to to randoms on the internet isn't something I do lightly and do largely to impress upon you how important that this is at this stage. If my time here is to help just one guy not make the same awful mistakes that I made for the same reasons you're giving, then all the hours I spend here will not be for naught. I implore you man.

ICO, read these two quotes:

That doesn't mean you don't need a battle-plan. This is a fight. You fight for your marriage or to get out of it. You fight the pain. You fight the negative impact on you and your families lives. You reduce the risks for you and you create greater risks for your wayward if they cheat again. Or you reduce the risks you face in divorce while creating greater risks for your spouse should they try to take you to the cleaners.

The first question you had is whether or not YOU could get past her cheating. You need to go to IC to figure this out. But while you are trying to answer that question for yourself you need to ACT for you and your kids best interest to make YOU and your KIDS feel SAFE in this situation. Like Notthevictem says, you need a plan. Start constructing it. It is hard to look forward to life without your WW which is why I suggested earlier to imagine what you would do if she had died out of the blue in an accident . Start your plan with that on surviving with just you and the kids, then start taking into account your WW's infidelity and adust your plan accordingly.

What Meltedchocolate says here is what your WW should be acting on -

Remember the onus is on HER to make YOU feel safe. Any remorseful partner will move heaven and earth to make things right.

This isn't a race between you and the OM to win your WW's heart in the end. It should be race between her moving heaven and earth to make things right with you before your "give a shit" quits and you file for D.

Yeah, I tried to white-knuckle it with the 'I WILL TRUST AND MOVE FORWARD' way of doing things... Very similar facts to yours as well...

Months of pain, frustration, gaslighting - and LIES I ultimately learned, followed.

I truly pity you if you proceed this way with your 'loving' spouse...

Just for fun, one last time - because you keep saying you aren't sure what to do:

- you need to speak DIRECTLY to his wife to confirm she knows about the affair, and that you aren't a crazed lunatic. He either intercepted the message or convinced her you are a nut. You know first hand how badly we want to trust our spouses...

- you should speak to the lawyer

- you should be monitoring your wife every way you can, if for no other reason that WHEN you discover she has been lying to you, you might wake up sooner...

I know, I know - 'but she seems to sorta get it now!'... They Lie. They compartmentalize. In their fucked up minds THEY HAVE NO CHOICE because she needs to keep you in line while they 'figure things out.'

You hear these folks when they point out that your wife isn't doing the work to become good material for reconciliation? And that she isn't taking the requirements you giving her seriously?

When I first joined, I was afraid to admit those things, even to the strangers I met here. I was afraid they would tell me she isn't good material for reconciliation and that divorce was inevitable. The part of me that is a good guy didn't want to face that potential. I wanted our marriage to succeed.

But my fear wasn't accurate to reality. Reconciliation is always a possibility and so is divorce. You ever almost tripped on a side walk and stubbed your toe, then looked around in embarrassment to see if anyone saw you? But the reality is that EVERYONE experiences that. And anyone that laughs at someone else, they're just being a dick. It's the same thing. Except there aren't any dicks here that will laugh at you. No one will tell you that your marriage doesn't stand a chance. It does if YOU want it to.

What we're telling you is that there is a method to the madness. A right and a wrong way to unbend this clusterfuck.

You aren't alone. EVERY SINGLE ONE of us has stubbed their toe. Every single one of us has felt shame and fear and pain from the actions of their spouses. Some folks by more than one spouse.

Take a look at the advice you've been given. See what's worked for you and what hasn't. The stuff that works the best? Use it. Make your battle plan. Make it like a mad scientist trying to take over the world and facing the justice league the avengers, the punisher, and bruce willis. This plan will become your modus operandi. It will be the blueprint to get you where you want to go. Factor in what success looks like and how to get there. factor in what failure looks like and how to get there. factor in every possible shitty inbetween phase and how to get through them. Factor in your healing. Factor in her stopping AND not stopping. Factor in every single possible input and output and contributing factor.

You can do this. Your kid's futures are at stake. Channel your inner mastermind, Olympic chess gold medalist, eight generals, a spy organization and whomever else you think can create a strategy that will win a losing battle.

Breath. The pain will still be there when you get done. No one will die while you plan. The world keeps turning. This plan is essential.

Are you ready?

the fact that she had this obsession and affair and then deleted all the information practically in front of you or under your nose makes it much worse.

You can never trust her again. She cakeate, lied, hid and screwed another man.

Just because she is starting to come around doesn't hide this fact.

The fact she had an attorney appointment even as the wayward shows her unremorsefulness and her backhandedness.

I agree with confused615. This is still going on. See you after DDay 2.

Keep your eyes peeled and ears open and find ways to monitor. Anything short of that is rugsweeping 401. You are at 201 right now

A battle plan is a good idea.

I'm going to start with that.

I am going to lie low for two weeks and monitor things. Hopefully my head will be in a good place.

I do not want a DDay #2. If she is actually remorseful and trying, then I don't want to come down with a nuclear option either and kill off any chance of an R.

I get what you all say. You have to be willing to lose the marriage to keep it. I really do. In part, I'm not sure if I am there yet. On the other hand, I want to slow down and breathe a little.

I think I'm doing good stuff for myself and I want to keep that going before I truly commit to one action or another.

Good. Battle-plan is top secret, classified info, k? Nothing leaked. IC is okay. No one else. Not friends. Not family. Not coworkers Not us. Oh, we can help with aspects as needed--but your computer or phone could be compromised at any time regardless of measures you've taken.

So, this plan is must be the biggest secret you've ever had.

Capiche?

I'm good with that. I'm not exactly sure what to put in it other than the obvious things.

It's a start at least.