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As best I can tell Edith's "Why's" are:

1) I was crazy

2) I didn't realize what I was doing

3) I was messed up and my resentment put myself in a horrible frame of mind

4) I thought I could help him and keep things OK. I was foolish and wrong to think that.

5) I was selfish

6) I was lonely

You do realize that this is all just surface level bullshit don't you? These aren't reasons why she had an affair. They are the excuses she told herself--sorrowfulmate

I guess I'm a little at a loss regarding the "why".

Edith has given me a lot of feedback when I ask her, "Why did you do this to me and our children?"

Most of her responses pointed to, "You put me through so much hell in our 25 years of marriage, how can you blame me!?!". But most of those times were when she was deep in the fog.

I would think she is still months away from being remorseful and capable of "getting it". When we go to MC, she cries over the things I've done to her over the last 25 years, and she cries when I tell the MC I'm going to exact consequences on the OM for his actions in some small way. But pain inflicted on me? I just sense she's flatlining... very little emotion. And she a very emotional person!!

So when I hear of the "Why", how long does it take to get to a BS satisfying answer? Months? Years? I guess what I'm looking for is the chain of thinking that lies somewhere in the middle of these two why's:

1) Can you blame me for having an affair? You have put me in such a "bad place" I really had no other option!!!

2) I had the affair because I wanted to. Period.

Somewhere in there is coping issues, FOO issues, boundary issues, character issues, self centeredness, pride, conceit, bitterness and lack of forgiveness, mid life crisis dynamics... etc. etc.

Because if she can't find the middle transition, then we are dead in the water. The above two reasons may express feelings that are valid for her, but they lead to a dead end.

If she can't identify the framework of thoughts that supported the feelings and choices to throw away a not-so-perfect husband and 5 dear children, then what is to say she won't break down again? She has said she now knows, she now sees what she has done, she sees the damage and she won't ever do that again.

What I believe is that she knew all that before. She just felt that she could control it better and that she wouldn't get caught. The only difference is that she now knows the multitude of ways I have figured out what she was doing.

So for me her figuring out the "Why" is very important. She needs to continue to work on that. She tells me it wasn't at all about me. That very well may be true, but it will be about me and our family if the divorce papers are filed. And that's the rub.

It wasn't about us and it should have been.

Getting to her "Why" is where it becomes about us, because that's the only place where she can protect us in the future. She needs to figure out her "Why" and build a steel wall around the weak part that allowed her to choose the OM and her selfish desires over us.

So my question is: What was your "Why" or your WS's "Why". What did it look like and how was it the weak link that failed? How did you or your WS build a wall around what failed and do you feel safe now as a result?

[This message edited by notperfect5 at 4:04 PM, July 29th (Wednesday)]

Still haven't gotten my why. I don't think I ever will, so I'm trying really hard to let go of that.

Am 14 months out. My husband doesn't know his why. He is floundering on searching, though, and goes mkre along the path of "I don't do it again" which isn't good enough for me to feel he's a safe partner.

Figuring out the why requires taking a very hard analytical look at yourself. It's a very dark journey, as my IC put it, and many don't make it to the end before turning back

NP5 - Edith does not love you. Her actions more than prove it. I think this was her exit affair, you just won't let her exit.

That is why you are not getting your "WHY"S" answered.

The only way I can imagine a successful wall around the "why" to be built is having a truly remorseful WS and a BS who isn't overly codependent.

do you have either?

It can take some WS's a long time to get to their real "why."

But..there's a huge difference between a remorseful WS..who is working had on themselves...digging deep..yet there for their BS...comforting them, earning back trust..taking full responsibility...but still looking for their why...

And your WW.

She is blameshifting..lying..unremorseful..etc..etc.

I think she has told you the truth..but you don't want to believe it. You think she is going to finally get it one day..yet she has told you "I am in IC to learn how to tolerate you."

She doesn't want to R...she just doesn't want to divorce. It's nowhere near the same thing.

2) I had the affair because I wanted to. Period.

Why does the why have to be anything but this??? Why will you accept a "middle ground" that is anything BUT this?

My WS says his whys were because he's selfish, he had poor boundaries and mostly just because he wanted to. He still waffles a bit with the "I accused him years ago" Which I didn't accuse I just asked BC we were so distant. He's trying hard to change but only time will tell if he's safe. But no I don't feel safe with him today.

It sounds like she was resentful toward you and instead of being constructive and seeking help, she chose to hate you, escape and seek revenge.

If she cannot recognize, after all this time, that her desire to cheat is due to her unwillingness to deal with matters at hand and not the matters themselves, I would be concerned.

She may not ever get it...certainly as long as she feels she doesn't need to - cuz you aren't going anywhere, in her head - why does she need to bother?

If she "hates you" so much and resents you and thinks you put her through hell, WHY is she still married to you?? Maybe she is also CoD?

I would say she has answered you with the "Because I wanted to" answer. It is just damn hard for a BS to swallow that one however. Because she wanted to encompasses a whole bunch of things, selfishness, manipulation, ego, child like coping, etc....But she chose it because she wanted to choose it.

We say on here all the time that the BS was in the same marriage and YOU did not make that same choice. Why?

I think a BS can see tons of traits in their WS after the fact that they just could not see before. Especially a CoDep type of personality. You will bury it because you want to cling to your family and what you perceive it to be.

Listen, it is not an easy decisoin to break up a family with 1 child more or less with 5 children. I think you will keep digging, you will still feel very unhappy at moments, but you will slowly sweep this under the rug and life will go on for you and your family. But the pain will still be there, the questions will still be there and maybe some time down the road you could possible have an Edith who will all of a sudden turn around and give you the answer that will satisfy you. But you will eat the shit sandwich along the way.

Its hard when you don't have an outright evil person, one who you can say does drugs, or spends all your money, or abuses the children, you could then somehow possibly say you had enough. But when they mask their resentment of you thru torture by affair....it is a slow death, and only you can live it.

Ah yes the ever elusive why. I do believe the finding the answer to Y is important. I also believe there are questions of why need to go deeper. not why did you have an affair? why did you sleep with another person? book more to the point of the stuff that really hurts us. like how could you be so selfish? why did you feel it was okay to put my health at risk why did you need that validation from someone who couldn't give a s*** about you? questionslike this are they dig deep questions. until you step up and start asking them and she is more truthful and starts to do some deep digging she won't own it. until you put a stop to the blame game she will never give you what you want.

I honestly think the why is just as simple as "because they wanted to."

It's a terrible question, isn't it? The dreaded "why"....the question we all want to know the answer to.

So here it is...

She wanted to...and

She thought she would get away with it.

That's it, right there in a nutshell for you. Everything else is just an excuse.

You want to know the reason, the "why", because you think you can build a wall around that reason and then you will be safe. Well I'm sorry to tell you, you will never be safe from the possibility your spouse will betray you. No one is. You weren't before Edith had her affair, and you aren't now.

Instead look at why you don't feel safe. Is it because Edith is still blameshifting? Because she is still not taking sole responsibility for her affair? That's what it sounds like, and I get it. You can't be safe while she isn't taking responsibility. Sole and complete responsibility. The "I f'ed up and it is completely and totally my fault" responsibility.

Only then can you start to address the circumstances that led to the affair. Only then can you put in place the extraordinary precautions that are helpful not only in preventing those circumstances from arising again, but in making you feel safe(r). Things like not having opposite sex friends, not giving men her cell phone number, not communicating with men without her husband's knowledge. These things can make a person feel restricted, as if they are being treated as a child. Well, they are, because they have acted childish and immature. Only when the WS accepts sole responsibility can you both begin to find your way back.

Stop asking why, and start asking why not? Why aren't you, Edith, accepting responsibility?

Oh, and she cries over whether you will exact retribution against the OM? That's not a good sign my friend. Not good at all.

She still sees him as the kindly music teacher who brought some excitement into her life, not the home wrecking, manipulating, predatory POS he really is.

It took my WH about 4 months from when I consider us to have started true R for him to admit that he had an A because he wanted to, he liked the attention, and he thought he deserved to be happy. That was about a year from DDay#1 when he admitted to an EA, but hadn't admitted to a PA yet. He was/is going to regular counseling.

We are now about 8 months from when he finally admitted to the PA and he is just now starting to unearth the FOO issues and bad coping skills that led him to turn away from me and have an A b/c he was unhappy rather than turning toward me. I think it will probably be years for him to get through all of his FOO and coping skills problems.

My WH will probably never admit "why" because he would have to face his demons first, and he's unwilling to do that.

Several months ago I told him I was willing to try to save our marriage as long as he (1) stuck to NC with OW and (2) went into IC. Well, he couldn't maintain NC and he only went to 4 IC sessions before he decided he was all set, cured even!

He has moved out and is living with OW.

His head is so far up his ass, it's never coming out.

What was your "Why" or your WS's "Why".

He had low self esteem.

He wanted a fresh start and tried to wipe out a history of bad decisions and actions by making another bad decision.

What did it look like and how was it the weak link that failed?

He needed soothing and wasn't courageous enough to do it in a healthy way.

How did you or your WS build a wall around what failed

WBF feels that his coping strategy for bolstering his low self esteem feels bad and doesn't want/do that any more.

and do you feel safe now as a result?

Well I'm sorry to tell you, you will never be safe from the possibility your spouse will betray you. No one is

My WH blamed it on my until he faced all of the affairs against our marriage. It was me. It was my parenting, my weight and I didn't have anything in common with him.

Those were all blame shifting away from HIS truth because he couldn't face himself and the shitty things about himself. He shifted the blame for over a year. Recently finally working.

It has taken 20 months for him to realize some things - and it's been over time, not all at once. It's come over time and he "keeps realizing things" as he learns about himself.

He wanted it to be about me because he didn't want to face his issues - because of the shame

He has low self esteem

He thought any second he'd be "found out" to not be as good as he portrayed himself or good at his job

His dad modeled flirting/cheating behavior

He didn't have any way to deal with stress and flirting became outlet

He led women down a path (he knew his APs through work) with flirting to make himself feel good then didn't know how to get out of the situation because he didn't want to say no and have them not like him.

He didn't think he'd get caught because he kept them separate from me (they never invaded our time and space).

He was master as compartmentalization

He is still searching.

My point is, he has moved too slow for me but it appears like he is looking inward because that is where the blame for an affair should be. It should be on the cheater. Don't lose sight of that.

The Why is important like I said previously, but understanding how you got to why is more important.

My H was always a great guy, I was the lucky one, married to an incredible man who was kind, smart, funny, good looking, and appeared to be completely devoted to me.

However life happens, and things change, and how you deal with those changes and the things that impact your life will really tell the tale on who you are. He truly had become depressed, and then even when the everything in his world was pretty much perfect, he was still depressed, and he was seeking ways to not feel so awful. Unfortunately he also closed himself off emotionally and wouldn't reach out to the people who cared and loved him. He didn't believe in the whole therapy mumbo jumbo, and he knew some sort of action would help to change things. Unfortunately he and his crappy coping skills led him right down the path of what he thought would be an exit A.

Understanding that gave him a place to start from when he chose to own his actions and the pain he caused.