SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Oh, so many schools of thought. Walloped, how are the therapy sessions with your wife (3 days a week/intensive professional workbook therapy) going? Do you feel that after your IC last night, you are moving forward? Enjoy the day today with Pope Francis in New York as he spreads the message of hope, healing & faith.

"faulty logic" - projecting much?

divorce is not "theoretically always possible," it's always possible.

divorcing doesn't mean you're weak or strong. reconciling doesn't mean you're weak or strong. not everyone should reconcile. not everyone should divorce.

W thinks he has a remorseful wife. I think he does too. He says he wants to see if he can get over it. let him try. if things change for him, he'll know. don't be one of these people that always knows what's best for others. Help W. Whatever he wants to do. That should be the goal of this thread.

i really don't think people should beat their bias drum. if you can't check your bias at the door, you shouldn't be advising. You're like a judge that always rules innocent, or always rules guilty.

Busy day yesterday - met with the poly examiner. Interesting fellow. Very awkward and embarrassing. I know it may not seem like it based on my lengthy posts, but I really don't like to share things about myself and airing my dirty laundry to some guy was humiliating to say the least. Of course he tried to put me at ease with a "Buddy, this ain't nothing" line, but still. We agreed on four questions, which he's still fashioning, but the topics are:

1) Has she answered all questions truthfully? (Basic question which is important to me)

2) Other than what I already know about since DDay, has there been any other contact with POS either directly or indirectly? (Key issue for me)

3) Were you truthful about your 21 minute conversation with POS? (my way of finding out whether she was planning on leaving me, or what the essence of the call was about – she told me her version, just have doubts that it wasn’t a “let’s run away together” call instead of a “I want to work on my marriage” call)

4) Except for your husband and POS, have you ever engaged in any kind of sexual activity with anyone else during your marriage? (He came up with this one – asked me about trust and was this the first time and suggested this as pretty boilerplate)

Poly is Tuesday.

Regarding being in limbo - I wholeheartedly agree. I have been. I've been paralyzed. And my IC challenged me on this last night, and then my wife did as well when I got home. My IC and I discussed two key things, my seeming unwillingness to work with my wife, and my physical symptoms. Very difficult conversations. He actually tied the two together and said the latter won’t heal without the former. We went over our allotted time, but he was free (my appointment is pretty late) and he felt it was important to keep going. It was very helpful. I try to be self aware about my own faults and tendencies, so once he opened my eyes, I was able to see that he was correct and what I was doing wasn’t fair – to me or to my wife. Part of it is me being scared of the future. Part of it is me being comfortable – like I did all these things, I deserve a break, but he said relationships don’t work like that. They need attention and devotion and if I’ve told her I want to try and see if we can R, then I need to man up. Doesn’t have to be done in a day, but I need to take positive steps.

When I got home, my wife sat me down. It was interesting to see. She was less (not sure the right word here –mousy? scared? nervous? careful?) than she’s been since DDay. She basically called me on what I’ve been doing and said it wasn’t fair to her, me, or us. Basically said that she can’t express how appreciative and grateful she is that I decided to come back home, sleep in our bed again, and to try and see if we can work towards R, and that she’s willing to do whatever it is she needs to do and she’s been making tremendous progress in her IC work. And she’s been following my lead in a desire to be respectful of my pain and healing, but it doesn’t look like I’m trying to heal, and she can’t help me heal because I won’t let her. Waiting for me to approach her hasn’t worked so she’s approaching me. She said she just wants a sign – that I’m still interested. She’s not looking for sex (although she said she really, really wants to) or intimacy, but just progressive steps. And her IC has told her that she has to play an integral role in my healing and she wants to do that. She feels like she needs to do that for me, no matter what happens to us. And she started laughing cause she said the cheesy “help me help you” line. I agreed with her. I thanked her for bringing this up and said my IC called me to the carpet on it as well and I was planning on broaching the subject tonight. So we made plans to go out for an hour or so tonight – just a coffee shop kind of thing. And then maybe again tomorrow. And we’ll go from there. No discussion of her affair during that time. We can set aside time to discuss that anytime I want to, but not during “bonding” time. She was elated. She asked me if it was okay for her to hug me as a thank you. I said yes. I almost didn’t, but I thought if I was serious about this then I need to jump into the pool and see how cold the water is. It was fine. I didn’t flinch or jerk away. I hugged her back. The first real close contact that was mutual between us in nearly 8 weeks. It was a long hug. She didn’t let go and I could feel her cheeks were wet. She told me she loved me over and over and said she was sorry over and over. And then she broke it off, said thank you, and left me alone to watch the Giants hang on in the 4th quarter. I was okay for the rest of the evening - kind of emotional, somewhat confused, and somewhat happy. Happy might be too strong. Content? Something positive, anyway.

And that’s where we are now.

One of the things I've learned through the process of reconciliation is that, at a certain point, BOTH of you need to take steps toward each other. Believe me, I know how hard it is for YOU to do this but it is absolutely necessary. We talk so often about how important it is for the WS to do certain things to make us feel comfortable - but once reconciliation is being given a serious try, it really only works when both partners are moving together.

I wanted to share a few things that worked for us to get our marriage to a new place. I hope they're helpful:

1. Make new memories. Go to new places. New restaurants, museums, events. It is SO important that the marriage have new experiences to share.

2. Set a date night. Just the two of you, every week. Dinner. Coffee. A drink. A movie. Whatever. No kids and no talking about the affair. Just go and enjoy yourselves. Hold hands and be together.

3. Set a time to talk each week. Whatever is bothering you. Whether it's the affair, or kids, or work. Make communication a new priority in your marriage.

4. Lastly, and I know how difficult it is, take steps toward restoring intimacy. It may be very difficult at first. She should know this but, again - learn to communicate - and tell her how you might feel. Then, give it a try. Slowly at first.

And, listen... it's okay if things don't go well. Let her help you. Let her reassure you. It's not unmanly if you get inside her and wind up falling apart. That is totally okay. It will get better. And the intimacy will begin to re-establish itself and will absolutely help you heal.

I know this is a tough subject, but the fact is... it's sex. We don't look back on sexual partners prior to the marriage and say, "Oh no, she had sex with HIM." It's water under the bridge now, time to move forward. She's with you because she WANTS to be with you - if not, she would have left. So take the time to dive back into the marriage and make it something new... something better than it used to be. You have a blank slate before you.

You can do it.

Great update, Wal. Keep on the good work, you'll be great!

Walloped I have read and followed your posts, its so true about both equally putting in the effort for R and as a BS it is very hard at times, I am 13 months out from initial dday and I still find it hard to let go and throw myself into it fully.

I think reading on here men find it so hard to R due to the sexual contact their partners have had with another but to get that connection back the intimacy is crucial. I don't know you or your wife but from what I read your M deserves a 2nd chance, I am for R when its really worth fighting for. The longer you leave it, the harder it will be, whenever you do become intimate again, it's going to be really tough, if you are going to give this a go, then literally give it your all.

Can I say without too much information, when we first made love after I found out about the A, it was very emotional, both crying, clinging to each other but it felt so right and good, the mind movies stayed with me for several months but I fought hard to rid myself of them and "reclaim" my H and I have.............Too many good Marriages are ruined by someone's poor choices and selfishness, it takes a really good and bigger person to give that person a second chance. Your wife seems remorseful and prepared to do all she can to help you heal, you will see on here she is rare.....I am one of the "lucky" BS's like you to have one of those and if I can I am going to keep him, grow old with him but with the knowledge that he is not as "perfect" as I once had him as, he is a flawed human being like us all but he is all I need and want and I am damned sure if I can work through this and manage to get past it, no one else is having him, ever

The first real close contact that was mutual between us in nearly 8 weeks.

Depends on how you define "mutual." I would have said that the last truly mutual close contact with her was before she took up with POS. That would have been the last time she wasn't hugging you while thinking of him.

TBH I would have told her "let's get past the poly first" and not hugged her at this point.

(I'm not a BS, WS, or OP, just a BC and mods corrected me for posting. Sorry!)

[This message edited by JustLearning at 4:41 PM, September 27th (Sunday)]

Excellent advice, LifeIsCrazy. But perhaps we can let Walloped skip the musuems.

(I figured if my heart skipped on that one yours probably did too, W. Smile at it sardonically, open your hands, and let it go. The rest really is good stuff.)

But perhaps we can let Walloped skip the musuems.

(I figured if my heart skipped on that one yours probably did too, W. Smile at it sardonically, open your hands, and let it go. The rest really is good stuff.)

Which is exactly what I did. And I agree. I printed it out.

LifeisCrazy - thanks.

Well atleast you're not a Jets fan.

Phew

Walloped did she actually say you are not being fair to her? Wow...I agree with Foley - get through the polygraph first.

Walloped,

Good to see you had progressed to the point where the museum comment while giving you a moment to pause and trigger, made you laugh instead!

I see you have set up the poly...I am conflicted on the benefit at this point...while I understand it's recommended, I also think that re-living it now is going to set you back a bit on your SI continuum! I guess you will know better once it's done, so I will wish you strength to survive the polygraph.

Last thing, the black and white moral compass... just don't forget about all the shades in between those two polar extremes!

Take care,

WTTS

What are the consequences of her not passing one or some of the polygraph questions

And I never realized that her No Contact break was 21 fucking minutes.

Jesus.

21 minutes is a long time to break NC...there are more layers to her feelings for the OM than she is saying. If he had been sweet as pie on the phone this would be a lot murkier than it is. Thank God for Walloped's sake the OM is a scoundrel.

And the line about not being fair to her or the marriage would have made my head explode - is a LTA fair to Walloped or the marriage? She is at the very least tone deaf.

I haven't posted for awhile but I have been following yours.

You are perhaps the most self aware and self honest BH I have seen here.

Back in 1985 and the years that followed I made a lot of mistakes in how I handled the situation, largely because I didn't have an SI as a resource and because I was too stupid to understand that I needed IC. And I guess because, honestly, my W's responses weren't nearly as openly remorseful as your W's.

I say this because I look at your actions and reactions and can say that you are doing an extraordinary job of handling this and moving forward in a well thought out way. And I think your IC was dead on. You have to start engaging to see if you are going to be able to move forward together. It can be small steps, incremental over time. And each increment will tell you whether you can go another level further or not.

You are doing great. Follow your gut and your intellect as you have been doing and you will come out to the spot that is right for you.

Eric - I haven't expressed any consequences to her about not passing the poly. I don't want to set them as too rigid, yet I want the truth, which is really what I'm after.

The 21 minute call was not a NC call. It was the call she made when I confronted her. Then, he called her over and over that week. Her NC message was an email we drafted together and sent from her email address before I changed it.

Walloped define too rigid consequences for her having a LTA and continuing to lie about it (if she fails the poly)?

I can understand your IC getting on you about your willingness to work on forgiveness. I can see him pushing you a little so you can discover whether you are willing to accept her remorse and believe she is changing. But I can't see him pushing you toward any action on this matter. It's not fair because he can't push you to get to that point - emotionally. It's way too early for anyone to suggest the "fake it 'till you make it" strategy so I hope that isn't your mindset at this time.

I completely understand your wife getting after you on this same issue. I'd be willing to bet money that her IC is trying to push her forward as well. This is a logical next step that everyone wants you to take.

But I don't think you are ready for this yet. Yes, doing the date thing is a baby-step and is probably good for both of you but that's all it is.

You clearly want to try to reconcile and I think this is all anyone should expect at this point. But at this point that means that you are simply willing to try and hoping it will work. But you are keeping the "I can't do it" trump card clearly in play. This is all typical and healthy.

This whole complicated, traumatic mess will move forward toward ultimate resolution at a pace that works for you. Your counselors should be guiding each of you along the path that each of YOU choose based on their training and experience. And every path is fraught with problems and emotional landmines so guidance from a professional is very useful.

One more thing: like the majority of BH's - it's all about the sex for you. The lying and emotional components of the affair are painful and destroy trust, but it's the sexual component that destroys a BH's willingness to reconcile more than anything else. So you not wanting to have sex with her demonstrates that you are a BH that is going to have deep issues with the sex for a long, long time.

All: I'm not saying that it's all about the sex for ALL BH's - just the majority. Look it up before flaming me.