SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sisoon,

No goodbyes here.

I'm just updating after a bit of an absence. I do feel that I now have moved out of the discovery phase and the affair is over. I am guarded and uneasy, but that's my gut feel. It was a painful pill to hear the rest, but I needed it. Without the truth I could not move on, and I think Edith finally realized it. She didn't want a divorce and wants to do what she can to make us work. She has asked me to stay while she works on herself. OK, I will. In the mean time I will work on me and maybe we'll see each other better on the other side of R.

Am I out of Limbo and into real R? Still too close to the DDay--not ready to be full in. But where else will I go? Not ready to bail on our marriage--I will give us more time as I see things improving. I'm still here in SI as well as I'm still trying to survive infidelity.

(((((np5))))) Please be extra vigilant with your self care, np. You remember the drill, right?

Sending you strength and peace.

Hey NP5. Glad to see you are mostly still in one piece. I'll be honest with you. I purposely try not to post to your threads most of the time lest my emotions get the better of me. Tush has a way of saying mostly what I would want to say to you any way. Honestly I get emotional when reading your threads because it's like watching my own family's infidelity history repeating itself.

My mother was caught in her A (by me) at least 8 or more times. Each time my father would act similarly to how you do. He would be furious and give my mother a slap on the wrist. He would be pissed for a few weeks and then go back to treating her like a princess. This happened each and every time. My mother would promise the A is over and she would take it underground every time. Everything would sort of get swept under the rug for a few months and then I would catch her again. Either AP would call the house, or I would over hear her making plans with my aunt to double date with AP, or one time she made up the lamest excuse (when I was 18) so I drove by my aunt's house and her car was there with AP's car. I don't think they were discussing pie recipes. Every time.... "Dad I have to tell you something..." And it was left to me to once again break the news. This went on for almost 6 fucking years. They would repeat this cycle over and over again.

Just this Mon night I talked about the affair in my FOO in depth in IC for the first time. We glazed over it several times in the past 2 years but this was the first my IC wanted the in depth details on this era of my life. (I mostly have SI to work on this infidelity stuff where I've been working on my mother's NPD, my brothers suicide, and the overall mess of my life most of the time). This session my IC wanted to know HOW the environment was toxic. How my mother reacted. How my father reacted. Most importantly how I reacted.

How did I react to what I witnessed? I wanted no part of any of it. I shut down and retreated from the family. I didn't want to get in the middle of the cross fire so I went to where I was mostly invisible, my bed room. I also couldn't fully comprehend what I was seeing. There is no way in hell I would have talked about any of it with anyone including an IC back then. I didn't talk about any of it until I got here on SI. Here on SI is where I started to process what I witnessed. For example, hysterical bonding. I had no idea what that was all about. My mother was over the top loud so of course I knew when they were having sex...daily, sometimes multiple times in a day. I used to refer to it as the I love you I hate you. Why all this sex in the bedroom with the fighting outside the bedroom. The look of disgust on my father's face. I now know that that look of disgust was probably towards himself. Emasculation!!! At 16 I didn't know the word for it but I certainly knew and understood the concept and feeling of it. Some of the things that would come out of my mother's mouth during a hate argument was brutal "is that all you got?" Not to mention that all of us in the house took a turn reading her diary which was very sexually graphic with what she was doing with her AP right down to how he tasted and their "special" fuck sessions.

"Dad I have to tell you something..." After the second time I caught her and had to use those words inwanted my father to divorce my mother. Nope. I couldn't understand why he would keep going back for more and do the opposite of showing her consequences (buying her nice things and spoiling her at X-mas/birthdays/etc.). I now know about codependency. Thanks again SI.

Where were my brother and I in all of this? Bearing witness in the other room with a front row seat which others didn't see outside the house. The silent observers who avoiding sticking our heads out for fear of concussions or being shot (figuratively). I didn't know how to process any of it. Best just to be quiet and not rock the boat. And my mother the offender... "why didn't you come to me first!" Is the first words she said to me on dday. I said nothing but my thoughts were I knew I couldn't trust her. Can you imagine if she had tried to make me keep it a secret which is exactly what she would have done. To make me pick her side over my father? The added pressure would have been immense and many other BC have to go through that. That added pressure and strain on a parent child relationship can often be the death of that relationship. Or so I've heard around these parts.

In IC we went from talking about that atmosphere to how I became the adult in the relationship with my father in some ways. Sort of his caretaker. I was the one that had to keep telling him about the A, I was the one that prevented him from exacting revenge on AP with my baseball bat, I was the ONLY one that was worried about his overall well being. My mother certainly didn't give a shit about his well being or any of ours for that matter. She was more like an addict and all about her A in that time period. Sound familiar?

Any of that ^^^^ sound familiar up there? I read about your situation and see my father and feel helpless to stop the situation that keeps playing out for you over and over just as it did for my family.

Did Edith leave the A open in any aspect as my mother did to continue next year or the year after? With all the TT, blame shifting, gas lighting, and extreme selfishness how can you be certain? You can't. No poly will give you that peace of mind and certainly Edith won't either. I know better than to tell you what to do. You have to move at your own pace. But it kills me to see you and your kids keep taking on emotional abuse over and over again from Edith. No amount of whatever you did or didn't do in your relationship with Edith warrants when she has done to you and your kids.

I didn't mean to make this post about me as much as I did. But I wanted you to see that I have seen your situation up close and personal in my own sitch. The end to your story has yet to play out. Don't let what happened to my father happen to you. He left for his own AP 6 years after the first dday. Not that you would do that but divorcing 4 or 5 years from now would be brutal.

You have my deepest empathy NP5.

yop

Shout out to YOP for that awesome post.

Given from a kids point of view. I hope to hell NP you are taking his words to heart. Your kids have been sucked into this and have had to deal with her choices in one way or another.

My often somewhat passionate responses have a lot more to do with the impact this is having on your kids, than it is on you. Yes, I care about you, I truly do, after all we have been friends on SI for several years. But your kids are my main concern. Abandondad can vouch that I'm a bit passionate about protecting our kids.

I have seen a man who is loving, and kind be abused and abused and abused. And despite hope against hope, most of what was predicted by the vets here happened. Despite our warnings, our predictions, our direction on how to avoid going through some of the same stupid mistakes we all made, we had to watch you obstinately make the same ones and go through the pain over years. It really was like watching a horrific accident happen in slow motion.

So now you feel you have the full truth of her A. You also believe it's over, but she did break NC very recently. So you are cautiously optimistic about your chances. I hope to hell that Edith does finally get it, but I fear she hasn't. I fear that your explanation of her choices, and reasoning of her A that you gave is what you are going to accept as her why. Please don't. That is just another excuse. That is not a why.

Ask Why is ok to abuse you and the kids to make her a priority? Because doing it for me is not a good answer, if she wanted something all for herself, there are about a million trillion other things that she could have done that wouldn't have been selfish, and would have allowed her to find herself.

Lastly I'm gong to leave you with no 2x4, or 4x4. Rather leave you with the same advice I give most newbies, and really reinforce to the people who have suffered sustained abuse.

The person you need to fall in love with and rebuild with is you. You need to find you. Learn what makes you tick, and what makes you feel happy and fufilled in life without your wife. It's time to have the best Revenge affair of all, and that is the one with yourself. Learn how to be independent, and not need her. Learn how to be strong and stand alone, and what makes you an awesome person. When you do this you find strength within, and realize that you Never Ever Again have to tolerate one more moment of disrespect from any person ever again, this includes your wife, and your kids.

((((and strength))))

ps A sign that Edith really gets it, and knows that you deserve better, would be to see her come back, and post for real, on here, and be honest, and legit this time.

[This message edited by tushnurse at 10:24 PM, December 2nd (Wednesday)]

Hi. Have you been to individual counselling for yourself?

Once again, I think you're giving her more credit than she deserves.

You say she wanted the entire truth out,and she's relieved that it's all out now. That she finally understood the need for total honesty.

Yet...that honesty didn't come from a place of love, and wanting to rebuild. It came because she knew she was facing down another polygraph. Just like last time.

Your kids will one day show you just how badly this has affected them. Oh...And your oldest daughter knows it was an affair...your ww enlisted her help in keeping the affair from you. But the younger kids don't know. So your daughter has the burden of keeping this huge secret from her sisters. How unfair of both you..And your wife. One day, the younger kids will be old enough to figure it out...And they will realize their parents lied to them. FOO issues abound.

I agree with tushnurse. If Edith really got it...she'd post again..asking for help to begin to repair the damage she's done. At the very least, she would recognize SI as a healthy support system for you.

Any proof the affair is over?

NP, you said:

We are arguing and resentful and bitter.

Later, confused615 said:

that honesty didn't come from a place of love, and wanting to rebuild. It came because she knew she was facing down another polygraph. Just like last time.

NP, she has literally zero reason to be resentful or bitter. The fallout from her affair is totally on her and her absolute crap handling of it all. The resentment and bitterness should be aimed at the women she sees when she looks in the mirror, not you. Her "honesty" is coming not from love, but being backed into a corner. Which then breeds more resentment and bitterness.

I cannot imagine how exhausted you are. But since you seemed determined to make this work, I urge you, for the love of humanity, do not put your armour down. Don't turn your back to her. The knives are still in her hands. She'll use them. Don't give her that chance.

NP5,

so what is the situation ?

But I wanted you to see that I have seen your situation up close and personal in my own sitch. The end to your story has yet to play out. Don't let what happened to my father happen to you.

I was thinking about this earlier today. I think it's an important distinction that NP5 is doing more than the minimum to get through this. It's not being swept under the rug. Please keep the pressure on NP5.

I agree with all of the above posters

I agree with confused and Tushnurse. Edith's silence on this board equates to a genuine lack of remorse or empathy.

Tushnurse hit the nail on the head. Edith continues to manipulate. Make yourself the priority, even if it means leaving her in the dust as she has abandoned your family multiple times.

Hi np5. Glad to still see you on here, and I hope you are continuing to read. Even if you do not post.

I thought in had clicked the wrong thread when I saw your post about finally feeling like you have the truth. I thought it was the post in march. Then saw this was this one

I urge you one reflection, on top of the others you and aubrie gave you:

Without the truth I could not move on, and I think Edith finally realized it

Edith still holds all the cards to *your* peace and healing. You need, for your sake and your children's sake, to stop giving her that power. She may be integral to the healing of the M, but do not let her be the master of YOUR healing. They are separate. Teach your children through your example that they are separate. Do not let yourself be defined by someone else.

I agree with Lark.

Just get the truth and decide from there, bro

I just wanted to comment on your MC's observation that Edith may have been "addicted" to the attention from the OM. I saw some potential for blame shifting there.

I myself am skeptical that liking positive reinforcement, which is a basic human tendency, is equivalent to an actual addiction. However, even if I suspend my disbelief for a moment, I wanted to point out that being an addict would NOT excuse her behavior. I was in a 12-step program for many years, and can assure you that taking responsibility for our actions is a huge component of recovery. We don't choose to be addicts, but we do choose whether or not to pick up that drink; if we choose to drink, we're responsible for the consequences of that choice. Edith is responsible for each and every choice that she has made.

I read these stories of reconciliation and I wonder if divorce could possibly be any worse. At least in divorce you have fewer triggers because you don't have to see her face or hear her voice every god damn day.

I don't think there is anything she can do to make you divorce her. Your marriage will last as long as she wants it to. I feel sorry for you and I really do wish you peace.

You need, for your sake and your children's sake, to stop giving her that power. She may be integral to the healing of the M, but do not let her be the master of YOUR healing. They are separate. Teach your children through your example that they are separate. Do not let yourself be defined by someone else.

I agree with this. When I stopped giving my WH any power over me was when I truly started living for ME! Whether we end in D or not I will always put myself and my kids in the #1 spot.

I read these stories of reconciliation and I wonder if divorce could possibly be any worse.

I am beginning to wonder the same thing. I think I would have recovered ALOT quicker had I just gotten a D. Instead I stayed hopelessly waiting for real R to happen. I got False R instead.

I am beginning to wonder the same thing. I think I would have recovered ALOT quicker had I just gotten a D.

Instead I stayed hopelessly waiting for real R to happen. I got False R instead

.

And you can't tell real R from false R while it's happening. It's only after d-day #2 that you realize she played you again.

If I could have one wish granted it would be to go back in time and spit in my WW's face and walk away when she begged me for another chance.

I always advise that a BH divorce because R is so difficult and it may not work out anyway. But when they decide to R I do respect that decision because I did it myself. I understand how a man can be so devastated that when he's offered a life-raft like R he might grab it, close his eyes and hold on for dear life. That's the man I want to reach and make him understand that divorce might be a better choice for him. That easing his pain now - for the moment - won't mean anything in the long run. There truly is a choice to be made and each path should be seriously considered.

OP: I hope you are out of limbo and moving forward in your recovery. If you stay on the path of R then I truly wish you all the best and hope you find peace. Remember that there is another path available to you.

I hear you, theDrifter.

Np5,

There are actually lots of children of infidelity on this site. Most of us are very outspoken betrayeds. There is zero doubt that infidelity seriously effects the children.

I'm glad you have offered counseling to your oldest. Her avoidance and denial is an extremely common way children cope with infidelity. Unfortunately, it's that very poor coping mechanism that will hurt them in the future.

Insist on several sessions, and get all the rest of the kids in too. Children hide and deny their feelings to protect the parents. It's not in any way malicious, but it's no less damaging.

When we bought our house, one of the things that attracted us were the number of trees on the property. Most newer homes have all vegetation ripped out and you have to start all over. Our house wasn't brand new but new enough to have a decent sized lot with trees.

A couple of years later many of the trees started dying. At first we came up with plausible explanations ourselves. Oh a deer rubbed that one, must have opened it to rot. That one must have not gotten enough water. Blah, blah, blah.

After 4-5 of them died we called an arborist and we learned about this epidemic of homeowners planting trees. Most plant them too deep. This eventually kills the tree, as does that all too common mound of mulch around the base, as it mimmicks being planted too deep.

Now when people plant them too deep, they look great. They seem great. Dropping leaves in the fall, sprouting new ones in the spring, growing seeds, fruit, or flowers, whatever that tree is expected to do.

However, the truth is, it's already struggling. Most people can't tell. On average, it takes 10 years before the tree will show obvious signs of there being a problem, and many times that can be too late to save it.

These homeowners who plant the trees too deep don't know it because the average person owns a home for about 7 years before they move. The trees still seem fine.

To a trained tree expert, they can tell that a tree is not the right size for it's age, that it has more disease or insect issues than it's suppose to have.

We were told that typically, that homeowner goes on and continues to plant trees too deeply. And people buy their old places, thinking all the trees are great.

Of course this only matters to people who care about trees in their yard. My point is, your children are these trees.

You know they have been exposed to something traumatic and damaging. I know they seem fine, and they will often express they are fine, but odds are they have stuff they need to address about the situation.

Don't wait until it's obvious they need support, that could be too late. Some children will never feel comfortable expressing their true feelings to their parents. Again, many times this is done to protect the parents they already know are hurting.

They don't want to be an additional burden. Be sure you don't treat it as such. Tell them they might have things they need to express about what has gone on, even if they didn't think they did. Set up the appointments, and take them as you would take them for any preventive treatment.

Take them for several sessions. Remember it takes time to feel out and trust a therapist. And children have to be sure the adult I safe before they will open up.

Maybe, maybe, they are all fine and have no concerns or things to express. But maybe, they have stuff that needs addressed, and if left unattended, will cause problems in their future. Why not be sure?