SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Please forgive her. Open your heart and forgive her.

Like a previous poster, I shared this site with WH#2. He then made his own profile and used this site to posture and grandstand- instead of doing the real work to fix himself and work on our marriage.

Would you feel safe posting with both barrels loaded if your WW were reading here and knew your screen name?

I say first and foremost, keep your safe place re healing from her infidelity. If you aren't absolutely positive that she'll use this site for good, then don't share.

ETA: And FWIW, I don't think you need to forgive anything yet. Her actions and words may be in a lot better place right now, but forgiveness is a gift that some never receive and others are never able to give. That too is your choice and yours alone to decide.

[This message edited by GabyBaby at 2:22 PM, January 4th (Monday)]

Most people aren't able to forgive something to the depths of what she did. It does not make you any more or less of a man. Or if you do it does not make you any more or less of a man.

Everyone needs a private journal and from reading your thread right now this seems like yours. It will not serve the same purpose if you share.

Walloped, you are so good at putting thoughts/ feelings into writing. I do think you should go ahead and share all you wrote in JFO and elsewhere with your ww. What do you have to lose?! You seem to me to be good at sharing your thoughts here on SI- do you share all this with your wife?!

I feel so similar to you- in so many ways! FWH and I have 5 kids, married 27 yrs and he is absolutely doing everything in his power to help me heal and is so remorseful he is physically ill at what he did- to me and our marriage. And I, too, seriously worry about the damage he has done to his own life . We are 10+ mos out from DDay and he continues to tell me that he loves me more every day. Like you, I am no longer the same person and the wind has been taken from my sails in all that I do in life. And truthfully, I worry that HE will not ever recover from this even more than I worry about myself. He sounds so like your fWW in that this A behavior was completely and totally out of character and against anything he ever believed in or about and would never ever have imagined doing.

I pray that we will hear from those with more "time" ( 4 letter word I hate anymore) under their belts that we ARE doing the right thing by being here and working on R. But I also wonder if I can do it- the amount of energy required is overwhelming and I'm not sure I have it in me. And it goes against anything I ever believed about myself and what I could/can take!

I wish you the best! And thank you for posting as it does ME good to hear. ( another thing changed about me since all this shxt- I never put so damn much emphasis on ME and I'm so resentful of how it's taken away from others in my life...). Thank you again and prayers for your healing .

but forgiveness is a gift that some never receive and others are never able to give. That too is your choice and yours alone to decide

love this.

I don't know about sharing the threads themselves but you have to share the feelings and thoughts expressed in them. If showing her excerpts or inviting her to SI is a means to that end, great, but in the end it's going to have to be the two of you, talking with each other.

Walloped, another question or two:

1. Have the docs/therapists said anything about you perhaps having depression, PTSD, hormonal imbalance,...? It might be a part of your current physical and emotional state. Better to rule out, just in case.

2. What are the possible alternatives to sharing SI (with or without your threads) that are on the table to get you to open up to her? Maybe starting with something smaller?

3. What are the possible courses of action you are currently contemplating in regards to, well..., everything?

Best wishes!

I'm sure you know this but if you give her a printout, she'll be able to find the posts immediately. And she'll look.

I feel like a dead man walking.

Boy do I know what that feels like - look at my username.

Unfortunately, 5 months is not a long time in the post-infidelity rollercoaster ride. For the first YEAR I did not know which end was up.

I think it is too early to share this safe place with your WW. And if you send her your threads, all she has to do is copy/paste into her favorite search engine and you will be outed in seconds. Even if you print them out, then she will be able to type in a sentence or two and you will be outed in minutes.

If you are having trouble functioning, I urge you to see a medical doctor (gp or psychiatrist) and consider medication/ADs to help you through this difficult time. I wish I had done that sooner, before depression had me completely in its grasp.

Your WW may be doing 'everything right' now, but not all that long ago she was doing everything WRONG. When someone stabs you in the back, them saying 'sorry' and taking you to the hospital and taking care of you when you get out doesn't cancel it out. What you are feeling is the completely NORMAL reaction to a trauma.

I'm so sorry for your pain. You did nothing to deserve this. Hang in there and try to be kind to yourself.

Sending you strength and positive thoughts.

((((Walloped))))

Hi Walloped. Your post is so open and articulate. It's clear that you know HOW to open up, you just may not be ready to with your wife. That's ok. It's still so fresh and raw for you.

Maybe it's too much pressure from her, asking you what she can do to help you heal. That's a little selfish on her part...looking for you to make some progress so that she can feel better. Maybe she doesn't even realize that's what she's doing. She wants the nightmare to be over just as much as you do. What you need is time. Time to assess your feelings without questions about which direction you are headed.

Perhaps just agreeing to live in the same house with civility and respect is all that can be expected right now. Your are both in the first stages after a devastating shock.

You'll bounce back and forth with the notions: how the fuck could she do this?! to remembering that she is a good person at heart. All this means is that you are on the rollercoaster of emotions following a trauma.

I sure can relate to everything you've written. All of our stories are logistically different, yet so humanly the same, it's sad and scary and reassuring all at the same time.

I agree with the others who say to reserve SI as your place. But, print some excerpts from some of your posts. Share when YOU are ready. Stop putting so much pressure on yourself to come to some new step or conclusion. Time is what you need.

Sending you strength.

So many thoughtful responses. And good questions as well. Thank you.

Would you feel safe posting with both barrels loaded if your WW were reading here and knew your screen name?

GabyBaby - Yes, I would. She never, not even on DDay, took any sort of indignant tone, postured, or defended herself. She may have been selfish in her response to DDay (woe is me, kind of thing), but never attacked or blamed me.

But as others have pointed out, it's still early. So maybe she would? I don't believe she would, but then again, I'd never have believed she'd have an affair either...

Stilllovessadly - Thank you, but no...I don't share these thoughts with her. That's my problem. And thank you for letting me know that what I write helps someone. I'm glad.

Foley - Absolutely. I agree. My problem is that I bottle up. I cannot bring myself to tell her anything even remotely like what I write here. So I don't say anything. The thought about sharing my SI threads with her is a way for her to know what I'm going through, the impact of what she's

done has had on me, and to use it as a basis for communication. In the end, I cannot escape the face to face conversation - I just can't get it started. Or maybe I just don't want to yet.

Have the docs/therapists said anything about you perhaps having depression, PTSD, hormonal imbalance,...? It might be a part of your current physical and emotional state. Better to rule out, just in case.

2. What are the possible alternatives to sharing SI (with or without your threads) that are on the table to get you to open up to her? Maybe starting with something smaller?

3. What are the possible courses of action you are currently contemplating in regards to, well..., everything?

Hobbes - Thanks for your posts.

1) My IC has said that I am slightly depressed but nothing clinical. I'm basically normal in the face of a significant traumatic experience. I am not on any kind of medication. He is monitoring me and asking the right questions. He seems to think my way of talking through these things with him and writing here via SI is a healthy outlet and more than anything I need time.

He attributes the physical affects to the trauma as well as how I view my wife in the face of her actions, quashing physical desire. Things have returned to normal a bit, although I am still not interested in having sex with her. It took a while until I was comfortable holding hands and sleeping in the same bed was a challenge, as she craves the closeness to me. I am not cold, just not as reciprocal.

2) We are in MC and he does a pretty good job of trying to get me to open up. We are working on communication. But I am playing it safe, so to speak. Not really letting myself open up. He knows it as does my wife. Not sure what else I can do other than wait.

3) None. I'm really not contemplating anything other than trying to R. The key question for me, and the answer to this is a ways off, is whether I can accept what she's done. Not condone and maybe never forgive, but accept that it happened and build something new with her? We'll see.

Valentinesucks - Thank you. I don't feel like I do. Know how to open up, I mean. What I write is really just a brain dump. But perhaps you and others are right. I've been told before that I give off a sense of wanting to "fix" this. Rush to put it to bed. I'm a solution guy, it's in my nature. So maybe I just need time. And not expect too much.

I don't think she realizes what she's doing. And it's not preventing her from doing her own work. She sees me and the way I am and I know it kills her. More so because she knows she's the one who made me this way. And so maybe some part of this is selfish - that she doesn't want to have to deal with the anguish of knowing that she did this to me. I don't get the sense that it is, but I'm sure some small part probably is. At least subconsciously.

My thing is that I know how folks on Si like to say all of the work is on the WW. But the BS needs to participate and I don't feel like I am. So by not opening up to her, I am not shortchanging her, I am shortchanging me. My happiness. My shot at R. My peace and happiness. So I'm looking for ways to rectify that. To get me off the sidelines and back in the game. And if R works, great. If not, well then at least I'll know that I gave it my all. But right now I feel like I'm not contributing in any way. Maybe I expect too much from myself. I don't know.

1) Sharing SI may be quite risky. I know of at least 3 cases in which the WS used the BS's posts to eff over the BS. Doesn't sound like much for 50000+ users, but only a small fraction of those 50000 are active at any one time.

SI can be a place to work things out in your head/heard/gut. You may post work-in-progress that is way different from where you'll end up. If your W reads w-i-p, she may very well get the wrong idea about where you are and where you're going.

In general, I think 5 months is early to get your W on SI. In her case specifically, I think it may be too early because many WSes who post here are pretty confrontative. My W joined about 2 years out, and her comment on the responses to her early posts was that they were 'a little harsh.' That could really slow down a WS who already beats herself up.

2) I think your expectations for healing may be unrealistic - 5 months out is usually before the first anger stage arrives. You're really early in your path, even if you're on the 2-year plan. Don't beat yourself up because you're not achieving your (unreasonable) goals.

3) Forgiveness - and trust - sort of snuck up on me. The 100s - maybe 1000s - of R actions that my W took eventually built up in my bloodstream, perhaps, and one day I woke up no longer wanting revenge. I do remember raising the issue that I didn't trust my W yet in MC about 3 years out.

It was a very quick discussion - our MC said, 'It's too early.' Now, in a sense, that was a therapist's trick, but the fact is that it takes a long time to rebuild trust.

4) I'm concerned about your lack of commitment to R. Where, exactly, are you on that?

It's one thing to treat every issue as a 'go-stay' decision. That's your right, and it may be best for you now. It's entirely reasonable to withhold a commitment while you're observing your W's behavior.

But if you're in R, be in R. Treat every issue as solvable, and work to solve every issue. Work to resolve issues and to define and live your new M. R remains open to you, even if you commit to R.

Yes, false R is possible, but you can't predict the future - and you'll be OK whether R succeeds or fails.

Half in/half out wastes a lot of energy in fear. Commit and risk the consequences, or just work on your M and observe your W without committing to R yet. JMO, of course.

5) Bro, of course you can handle this. You have no other option - it's been dumped on you. Your W betrayed you, but you will survive. The only questions are about how you'll respond.

Let go of the outcome. Keep observing your W. Is she the partner you want? If not, will she make the changes you want her to make? Are you the partner she wants? If not, will you make the changes she wants? (This is about new issues that arise in your new M, not about old M issues, which are as dead as your old M.) Are you and your W having fun together? Do you feel loved? Do you love (active verb) your W? Is building your new M what you want to do?

Those are the questions that should be at the top of your mind. No need to question your ability to handle this. No need to set up false tests, like: do you have whatever it takes to R or D?

Rest easy. You've got what it takes to survive and thrive.

Walloped, I am one of the many that you have helped, indirectly, through your posts. While I am going through my own issues as a BS, and our stories are quite different, we also have a lot of similarities. I'm also 5 months from DDay, married 25+ years, and my WH and I got together in the late 80's.

I completely sympathize and understand your feelings of deep sadness, anger, and lack of enthusiasm to communicate with your WW, as I have been experiencing those same feelings with my WH. I haven't had any advice to give you, because you have had so much better advice than I could ever share, from the wonderful people in SI. However, I do have one recommendation or suggestion for you in response to your question about sharing SI with your WW. Rather than sharing my safe place with my WH, I have been writing him old fashioned pen to paper letters, expressing my hurt, disillusionment, anger, etc. I find that I can just ramble on and eventually tell him everything, similarly to how I have shared my story on SI. In a way, it has been cathartic, because it's allowing me to get it out, but it also gives him a chance to understand my pain and to help me through it, and he has been writing me back in kind. When we first got together, we used to write each other long love letters, as we lived in different cities, and this was a way for us to stay connected. The love letters stopped many years ago, after our son was born, and time ran away from us. I'm finding that going back to writing him letters, is helping us help each other heal. We are both in pain, and he is extremely remorseful, and this is helping tremendously.

Anyway, here I am rambling on, again. I hope that this suggestion can help you, even just a little, as your story has helped me to cope and get through the last 5 months. Thank you so much for sharing. I'm so sorry that you are here, but I'm so grateful to you and I'm going to remember you long after I stop coming to SI, as the one who helped me survive.

Hi Walloped, keep strong man.

I want to thank you for taking the time to post in such detail about your marriage. I've read your 50 and 29 page threads thru twice. Knew your story pretty well.

My wife and I are just beginning to leave a room-mate marriage. I have major resentment towards my wife for being a binge drinker and 'mean' flirt when drunk. I thought it would helpful for my wife to read your story. We read 20 pages together from your first thread. I started reading out loud the first sentence of your OP, my voice cracked and tears rolling down my cheeks. Great I'm crying in front of my wife. But we hung in there and she soon read all 50 pages of your first thread. She told me it finally helped her to see how much her behaviour had hurt me. So thank you for that indirect help for my marriage.

As I said before, I spend my free time escaping. Hang with the kids, I read, or play a video game. Maybe watch a movie.

My advice here: stop that. You've withdrawn from your wife and life, too, and I guess you needed to up to this point. But now you've reached out to SI saying you're miserable. Start small, one night a week to start have some fun with your wife. You're in NY, fun city, go have some. Also, get a hobby or activity for yourself out of the house instead of sitting in front of the TV or your computer, where's that getting you? Get a little fresh air in your life.

Your wife sounds miserable. You've described her as a very capable woman. I agree with another poster, she should find a job, even part time. Will help her forget about her shameful, guilty self for a while each day or week. The other side to that, I'm not saying you'll divorce, but if things don't work out, she'll need to be working, right?

You've gotten advice about sharing SI with your wife or keeping it for yourself. Good arguments both ways. My two cents is to share your threads with her. You've stated here you're incapable of sharing your feelings with her. Your threads will be a drink from the sharing fire hose. You've written it all right there. The advice you've received in your threads has been remarkable, outstanding really. But maybe you need to start talking to her more than the SI community, and sharing your threads might turn you towards her and a little bit away from here.

Two caveats 1) is if you're reconciling careful you don't use SI as a message board to tell her ongoing this is how you're feeling. Got to start to talking as husband and wife. 2) Hopefully she's tough enough to take the frank comments directed her way in your threads, and that won't send her into some kind of tailspin. There lots of good stuff there, too about how remarkably remorseful she has been early after discovery. Like SI all-time record quality. And of course your obvious love for her, that really shines through.

[This message edited by SnowToArmPits at 6:48 PM, January 4th (Monday)]

Walloped

Tough question to answer objectively, so I won't. I shared SI with my WW and was betrayed profoundly...again. That is my experience only and in no way reflects on your WW. I would just caution you that if you feel you still need a safe place to bounce you thoughts and emotions around then hang on to it for a while longer.

One thing that stuck out in your post was your stance on forgiving your wife. I'm sorry you are struggling but it is perfectly normal at the 5 month mark. You are clearly a thoughtful person and as such there is no way for you fully process everything that has happened in such a short time.

A couple quick questions about forgiveness.

1. Why do you think you haven't been able to forgive your WW?

2. Why do you want to forgive her?

I've read a few of your posts and this theme has come up on multiple occasions. One way or another, there won't be a whole lot of movement on your part until you can figure out those answers.

isitme24

I want to be very careful . . . but maybe the 'fake it 'til you make it' approach MIGHT help.

Make a 5 minute plan. Implement it next time you see her looking at the photo albums or in some unhealthy behavior, even though you really don't want to. Force yourself . . . hug for 3-4 minutes (or whatever). You can even tell her you don't feel it . . . but you're going to try to do it. Pick some news story - the neat SpaceX landing, the 12ft giant squid . . . something NOT negative, and talk about it for 2 minutes, never stopping physical contact. Maybe even kiss twice for 5 seconds each . . . even if you really don't feel it and can't wait for it to end. Do a little more the 3rd or 4th time. Just plan something like this to do, then do it whether you feel up to it or not. Feel free to improvise, but only if it adds to the time. Take a step, then another, despite the fact you don't want to. Try to force your thoughts in a positive direction . . . even if only for 5 seconds . . . then 10, then longer.

I don't know if this will work, but it may be worth a try. The same logic used using the 180 in DE-taching may work in forcing increased contact for A-ttaching. Just force yourself, a little at a time, every day. (If it doesn't work, what have you lost??? As long as it doesn't make you feel significantly worse . . . definitely stop if it does.)

[This message edited by c24j at 7:34 PM, January 4th (Monday)]

I think you are OK for 5 months. 5 months is still a very, very raw time. It was for me, too. 6-7 months was a little better. 4 months was better than 5 months, it got worse, but then by 6-7 months it got better.

I suggest stop thinking about it in months. Think about quarters. Re-consider every 3 months. It is January, you should feel better in April.

2-5 years. You are at less than 0.5. This will take a long time.

Try to think about sex more often. The more you do it, the more you want to do it. You think abstinence would make you want more desire, but I think it works the opposite, the more you abstain, the less you want to.

Sex bonds. Physical touching bonds. At least make out like a 13-year-old and grope her a little bit. Let her massage you. If you want this, you have to try.

2-5 years. It is true. I think you are OK. Be patient.

Sisoon - Wow. I really don't know how to adequately respond to your excellent post, but I'll try. I do know that I'm printing it out and will read it daily. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

#2) I believe you are right. My expectations are likely unrealistic.

#4) I'd like to think I'm fully invested in R, but stepping back, I don't think it's accurate for me to say I am. I'm not looking at every situation as a stay/go one, but I don't believe I am holding up my end of th R bargain. I don't buy the "everything is on the WW" school of thought. If I said I'm committing to R, then I need to do that. I find myself not doing that and it scares me. It's like when you say out loud that you want your hand to lift up, but it won't. Because even though you say it, your brain is not passing along the message because inside you really don't. Is that what I'm doing? I hope not. But it might be. And that's not fair. Not to me and not to her.

#5) Your list of questions. Thank you for them. I'm going to spend a lot of time on them. Discuss with my IC and MC if that's okay with you.

Disbeliefdespair- Thank you. I love your suggestion. My wife and I used to write long letters too before we were married and at a time when we lived far apart. Snail mail is a lost art. Funny, sweet, nonsensical. We wrote it all. Your suggestion really makes sense. Thanks.

SnowtoArmPits - First, I'm touched. Really. And so glad I was able to help in some small way. Second, thank you. I hear you and you are right. About it all. My withdrawing. And your comments about communicating. And your caveats.

Here's the thing. I did all that. And what other have suggested. The hand holding. Spending time together. Spent a day in Times Square. Out for coffee. I used to exercise. A lot. Went into overdrive after DDay. Ran practically daily. And then this new feeling hit. It's a funk. I recognize that, but my modus operandi has recently been to quash those feelings I have and just muddle through. Of course it's not working because I'm not addressing what's bothering me. Avoidance? You bet.

But if I'm in R, then I need to be in R. All in.

I have a lot to think about.

Walloped, take this for what it is worth, and knowing that I've never done the R thing.

Solus sto and sissoon, I think, are pretty spot on. If you're having trouble opening up to her but you do open up to us, how will her knowing where to go read what you're thinking change that? If you reveal SI then you will _know_ that every single post that you have ever written will be read. Heck, from one point of view, you're not talking so she's almost got to sift through here.

If you print and hand over, then she'll simply google a few phrases and !bang! your secret identity as Walloped is out, see prior paragraph.

Here's a suggestion, take it for what it is, and I've used it successfully in the past. Copy and paste your posts into a document (make sure backups are off, all that jazz). In the document date each post. Scan through and change some things.

Sit down and read them off to her. Separate chairs, some distance between. This is, for a while, _you_ time. You'll get some practice opening yourself and talking -but- you won't be looking at her, you won't be spontaneous, you won't be as vulnerable right away -and- you'll still get to see her reactions. You're not "talking", you're reading from a script. Your script.

Read a page/post/day's worth of posts a night, for a while. When the reading is done diamond-cut-shred the printout, erase it from your tablet/phone (Remember Dr. Fone!), burn it in the nightly fire, eat it, whatever.

Don't be surprised if you start crying when you read these, if you do that. It is very close, emotional stuff.

I am going to suggest something weird. At five months out, we took ballroom dance lessons to prepare for our son's wedding. It was WAY out of our comfort zone. We decided every Friday night we would get dressed up, go out dancing and then go to our favorite little bar for a burger and a beer. It was the only time we did not talk about our affair. We just concentrated on dancing and having fun. We would come home and practice im the kitchen.

It worked wonders for us. It gave us some intimate moments of holding each other and it gave us an opportunity to laugh with each other for a few scheduled moments each week. It was also good mentally and provided some physical exercise.

It was not the cure for infidelity, but it helped us to start LIVING again.

Best of luck, Walloped. We are 2 years and 2 months out. It looks a lot different from this far out. Whether you rconcile or divorce, it does get better.