SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

... and even if you want to take the position that everything I have said above is wrong, you will never be satisfied with the answer it provides. If it says he's guilty, you will be pissed at him for being guilty, or being guilty and lying as well, at which point you will want to grill him for more answers and assume everything is a lie - because the polygraph says he's a liar so he must be...

Or it will clear him of any wrongdoing an you will question the accuracy of the machine and be left with the nagging doubt in your head that will resurface anyway.

His refusal to take one makes it's very likely he is still lying about some things or someone.

What would you do StrikerOne? How would ever trust your WS again without one?

We don't even have them in Australia as far as I know and if there is some witchdoctor fooling round with one in a back room somewhere, it sure as hell isn't considered to be legally acceptable as evidence in any court of law, and that of course means that it has been deemed hokus pokus and not worth the ink on the scroll paper.

In answer to your question though - what I would do is exactly what I am doing now, continuing to search for any unexpected remaining evidence that may be archived unbeknownst to her on a backup somewhere whilst forensically examining things like her old phone and other data retaining devices - occasional data analysis/recovery's on her work phone iphone and when I can get my hands on it without her knowledge, doing the same with her personal phone.

The reason I dont want her knowing, even though she has plainly said "just ask and you can look" is a) because I would rather not raise the issue and the stress between her and I if everything except my paranoid is hunky dory, cos whilst the offer sounds straight forward in premis, its always accompanied by her getting pissed off at me for bringing it up *again* and b) I would rather the opportunity to analyse the phone at a time when she's gotten lazy and accidently left it laying round and gone out or whatever - because that's the most likely chance there will be of finding something, if there is something to find - because she didn't have her shit together and maybe she also didn't get round to deleting something she normally would have cleared off immediately in her disciplined always manner.

More to come

Even if I was in a place where scientific reality's are second fiddle to machines like polygraphs and those amazing little happyness testing machines the scientology nutters use to suck money of the suckers who believe that shit, I still wouldn't ask my wife to do one.

Why?

Because I would never be satisfied with the result. If it said she was telling the truth and nothing past friends EA happened, then I would say she skewed the result or just got the machine on a good day. If it said she lied, she would maintain that the machine was fucked and I would still be right where I am now, trying to find out if it went PA while she maintains her story and stands her ground with no other evidence to change the known facts as they stand now.

I agree with StrikerOne. Personally, I wouldn't have my FWH take a polygraph test. I know for a fact one can lie and pass and vice versa.

For me, if it got to the point where I felt I had to polygraph my FWH that would be the time I was ending my marriage. I didn't sign up for infidelity but I sure as fuck didn't sign up for polygraphing and interrogations.

I do understand that for many it worked and they are happy with the results and I am not judging anyone for choosing that route. For me, a polygraph would just be too much and a sign to me that it is time to end the marriage.

eta: missing word

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 5:19 PM, February 2nd (Tuesday)]

They are accurate. Yes someone who it doped up on drugs that will keep natural body reaction from normal can cause an inconclusive. Or if they are a total psychopath and have no conciencious could pass it. That's why it's not admissible is because a guilty Patty could take drugs and screw with it.

Find your local probation/Parole and speak to the Sex Offender officer and find out who they use. They should be experienced enough as they do many of them for state contracts to be able to day "I cand test them, they are on something" as my polygrapher had done before.

We send people back to prison based on failing a poly. I have 12 scheduled in 2 weeks. Had 13 in November and same last September. Some failed then admitted to more victims.

Get the POLY! If he is refusing...he had some more to hide.

Something really struck me.....his comment that he didn't want to lose you. My WH lied for 2 years for this very reason. he CONVINCED himself I would absolutely divorce him if I knew the truth. In his mind it was better to keep lying to keep me than tell the truth and lose me.

I offered this advice to another member here:

I would sit him down calmly and explain the absolute importance of honesty in healing for BOTH of you. You cannot R a M based on lies and half-truths. Offer him amnesty, so to speak, that nothing he says will result in an AUTOMATIC D and that you will still put your best effort into healing from whatever the truth may be. Receive this truth without a blow up. The TRUTH has to be SAFER than lying. Also tell him any lies revealed by the polygraph, future discoveries, or further investigations will result in an immediate filing of D papers.

He needs to do this for your piece of mind. His lack of willingness IS your answer to "is there more?".

What... and you don't think someone who has maintained a serious ongoing affair, demonstrated an applied ability to compartmentalize all the emotions and questions of moral value and managed to successfully do all that *whilst* lying to your face well enough and confidently enough that they should be nominated for the Oscars in "Best Actor" and "Best Liar" category isn't showing the traits that define sociopathic behaviour?

You don't have to be an off the scale mental case in a prison psych ward to manipulate those machines, you just have to have a set of balls, the ability to control your breathing and movements in a deliberate manner and a "fuck you, Da Niale is not just a river in Egypt, I'm sticking to my story with the same confidence that has got you sitting here relying on this stupid machine that belongs in a sideshow alley at a circus so everyone can have a laugh at how stupid some people must have been to believe that shit!"

My WS seems to be trying very hard to work on our relationship. He finally seems remorseful and willing to do whatever it takes to help me, however, he is still refusing to take a polygraph.

Obviously not.

Yeah I think refusal is a very big red flag..

I think successfully passing a poly doesn't mean the WS has the right to ask us to shut up whenever we have questions..

In my case with my WH, it never became an issue.. It simply wasn't worth it for me to even go so far as to require my WH to submit to a poly..It wasn't necessary..I was already so done with him, that I was fried..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 9:12 PM, February 2nd (Tuesday)]

Is a polygraph 100% accurate? No of course it isn’t otherwise it would be admissible in court. Is it extremely easy to defeat a polygraph? If it was your WS would be more than willing to take it. Is it better than android data recovery, IT related hacking and data analysis tools? Yeah I’d say it is, because your WS can hand you his phone and let you do whatever you want with it because he has gone to the nearest convenience store and bought a burner phone and is only using it with the OW. You could be the most tech savvy person alive and it will do you any good if you don’t have access to the data.

With polygraphs there are things that can be done that will cause inconclusive results but is unlikely that the average WS will be able to successfully utilize those methods. The CIA, FBI, other governmental agencies including local law enforcement utilizes polygraphs. They realize that at times they can be inaccurate and are inadmissible as evidence but polygraphs certainly do not just give random results.

Many times, just prior to taking the exam, there are parking lot confessions of those last items the WS was holding out on. If the polygraph indicates that your WS was lying in answering a question can you be certain he was? No, but I would strongly suspect that either he was lying or there was another secret he was holding back that triggered upon the question. If the polygraph indicates he was telling the truth can you be certain he was? No, but I certainly would give him the benefit of the doubt.

To be honest, I'm not really worried about the actual results of the test. I understand they can be inaccurate. What is killing me is that he is refusing to take it knowing it will help me. I really did not expect him to so strongly disagree to do it. I'm hurt more than anything. I've explained to him numerous times how important it is and what it would mean to me if he did it, but he just refuses. Tonight I asked him if it was really worth losing a marriage over and his response was, "me not taking a polygraph isn't going to end our marriage. Me cheating is what will end our marriage ". I told him I could work through the cheating part. It's the inability to trust I can't live with.

I would draw a line in the sand on the polygraph if I were you. I believe the reason he doesn't want to take one is that not only has he had sex with her but more importantly he is still in contact with her. He probably has a burner phone that he is using.

I'm sorry, but if you have reason to believe he hasn't told the entire truth you will most likely not be able to R. He needs to do everything he can to help you heal and he quite clearly is not!

Remember it is actions not words that you need and he seems not at all willing to perform those actions. He obviously seems willing to lose his marriage to keep the secret. I would tell him you love him and are willing to try to R but if he refuses to take the polygraph then you take that as proof positive that he isn't seriously interested in R and you feel you have no other choice except to have an attorney draw up the papers.If he still refuses then you know what his true feelings are toward you and the marriage and you will be saving yourself the additional heartache of a false R where he wasn't totally committed.

First of all, I have my doubts as to whether his therapist recommended he not take it. But then again, I have very little faith in most therapists from all the crap I've read here over the years about the ignorant advice so many therapists love to throw out there, so it's possible she did tell him not to. Her 'opinion' on how much it will help or not is EXACTLY that - her opinion.

Personally, I think he's using that nonsense as an excuse to avoid it whether she 'advised' it or not. And it's unfortunate you're actually letting some therapist decide what YOU need in order to heal.

I guess he STILL thinks this the All About HIM Show at your house.

What StrikerOne isn't taking into consideration about polygraphs is the INTIMIDATION factor. We can go around in circles all day as to the validity of polygraphs, the variables, the reliability, the ability of people to drug themselves and/or "have the balls" to fake it through the test and pass it, etc. etc.

But for most everyday people, a polygraph is intimidating as hell and most don't have the ability to just pass it simply because they want to.

Most see it as the end of the line for their lies because they'll be exposed, so they try to avoid a poly like the plague. Many will confess to their wrong-doings days before the test, the night before the test, the day OF the test, or even in the parking lot of the poly facility right before they go inside to be tested. That's what we refer to as the 'parking lot confession.'

Because for most average people, the intimidation factor is very powerful. The thought of being exposed by a stranger for the liar you are is overwhelming, and that's why a lot of us get 'confessions' before the test. Usually, these confessions are still only part of the whole story designed to make you think you now know everything, but chances are high you still don't. They do that hoping you'll cancel the poly thinking you know it all now. Smart BS's won't cancel the poly no matter WHAT, because there's always more to the story they're not being told.

DeservesBetter, you're setting yourself up to be lied to and deceived by this man for the rest of your life because you're operating from a place of FEAR instead of confidence. You clearly say in one of your posts that you're afraid to tell him not taking a poly is a deal breaker and you're afraid he'll accept the divorce papers if you did have them drawn up.

And THAT'S why you'll always be lied to and deceived by him. Because you're too afraid to stand up for what you need. Your fear is allowing him to manipulate you and he KNOWS it. He KNOWS you're too afraid to do anything about it.

Stop begging him to take it. Stop trying to convince him to take it. Stop bargaining and reasoning with him to take it. As long as he's got NOTHING TO LOSE, he'll continue to disrespect you and not take it.

He doesn't give a CRAP about what you need. This is all about saving his sorry ass.

You're not in reconciliation. Those who are still lying and covering their asses are NOT remorseful. It's still about HIM and what HE needs. And what he NEEDS is to continue lying to you because he probably has a lot more he's hiding that you know nothing about - and that's the way he wants to keep it.

And as long as you continue to operate from a place of fear instead of determination, he'll continue to manipulate you because he knows you won't do anything about it in the end.

Time to change up your strategy.

Tonight I asked him if it was really worth losing a marriage over and his response was, "me not taking a polygraph isn't going to end our marriage. Me cheating is what will end our marriage ". I told him I could work through the cheating part. It's the inability to trust I can't live with.

This is a confession of sex if I've ever seen one. See my advice that I previously posted. Your WH has CONVINCED himself you WILL LEAVE if he confesses so he is lying his ass off because it is the SAFER option.

The real question here is if you want to remain with a person who will cheat on you (and you KNOW by now he has at least had one PA...maybe more with the games he's playing...it must be bad) and then TORTURE you with lies and expect you to put up with it all to save HIS ass?

I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. It's obvious he doesn't think you're serious about the poly, or your need for the truth. He thinks there will be no consequences for lying...only consequences for the fucking. And honestly THE LIES ARE WORSE! Living in an unauthentic marriage, where you can NEVER trust him to tell you the truth is hell. I'd rather be alone than with a liar. They undermine the fabric of trust in the marriage. You do not have a marriage while he's doing this to you.

[This message edited by RipsInMyChest at 7:52 AM, February 3rd (Wednesday)]

I know. My spirit is completely broken. I thought I meant more to him and to find out the truth is the most painful thing I've ever had to deal with. If he's not willing to do it for me, you think he'd at least be willing to do it for our daughter. Our most recent conversation this morning consisted of him telling me "if you will not work on us then why should we continue on?" Really? I now have to contact a lawyer, because it's apparent the only person in this relationship looking out for my best interests is me. This isn't what I want, but I can't live in a state of mistrust for the rest of my life.

That is why the marriage ended for me..

Here is what I believe are in most WS's heads who are un or marginally remorseful..

There is that spirit of things being all about him or her..Ego telling the WS that their needs won't be dominated by another person's..

Instead many WS expect us to let them pick and choose what they do to help us heal while we suck it up..Because the WS knows that we crave normalcy... We are aware that our lives will change no matter what we choose to do but the WS are selfish enough to bend over backwards to maintain the status quo, even if that means further lying..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 8:27 AM, February 3rd (Wednesday)]

To be honest, I'm not really worried about the actual results of the test. I understand they can be inaccurate. What is killing me is that he is refusing to take it knowing it will help me. I really did not expect him to so strongly disagree to do it. I'm hurt more than anything. I've explained to him numerous times how important it is and what it would mean to me if he did it, but he just refuses. Tonight I asked him if it was really worth losing a marriage over and his response was, "me not taking a polygraph isn't going to end our marriage. Me cheating is what will end our marriage ". I told him I could work through the cheating part. It's the inability to trust I can't live with.

I think you gave him a GREAT answer.

DeservesBetter- I did not ask my fWW to take a poly. But you know what? She'd take one tomorrow if I brought it up. When she gave me her timeline, it was very detailed. Much of it was embarrassing for her, and very hurtful to me. The thing is, there was so much on the table, I was left feeling that there couldn't be anything more damaging that she hadn't told me. I felt like I had the truth.

I agree with your sentiment. Your WH should be willing to crawl over broken glass bare-kneed to make things right with you. So what if he fails the poly? (cross that bridge if you come to it). His refusal seems a red flag to me. There's likely more; you are thinking there is likely more. He needs to understand that there can be no healing...none...without total transparency and honesty. It is no longer about him, and protecting his widdle iddy biddy ego. It is about healing YOU.

Be firm on this. I fear that if you aren't there will be no healing.

Meanwhile, if he does "see the light" and agrees to a poly, you should expect revelations you don't yet know about. You can assess then (and only then) your next plan and path.

Good luck, DeservesBetter.

Here's what I know. Mine didn't want to take one. I told him I was scheduling it, got information. Scheduled it, got more information. By the time of the test he was eager to take it. I believe the poly guy I used is very good. I sat next to the poly guy and watched the screen. I know what he was looking for on the graphs to indicate lying. I saw that it didn't happen. He did the test twice. So, I think I have the truth.

That said, my warning bells about truth were going off throughout 14 months of R. Ok, really, our whole relationship. By Monday, I felt he was telling the truth for the first time ever.

He says he feels free.