SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Let's try it from this angle Toopol.

Do you have a detailed timeline of events. How many times did your SO have unprotected sex, how many positions? Have you talked about that? Then once you know that information you know what it is exactly that you have to forgive, accept live the rest of your life with. why couldn't she at least use protection?

You are blame shifting to the OM, that is not productive.

Also you say your so was "sleeping" with the OM - OK, again, she had raw, unprotected sex, he made her orgasm many, many times and her him - oral, anal, reverse cowgirl, he had full access to her entire body and emotions, your life partner.

She took him in her mouth, she took him everywhere - for weeks.

You are not even 30 , five years is not much in the long run, others are trying to tell you that. You came here for advice, people are doing there best to give you it, please cut us some slack, we really want to help.

Regardless you should be in IC, your own individual counselor, who knows nothing about your SO. Start there.

Toopol

It still doesn't sound like she was all that guilty about what she had done until she was actually telling you and seeing your reaction. It still feels like she was prepared for and not all that concerned about the ending of your relationship up to the confession itself. Two weeks after leaving you she started bonding with this guy and one week later she was having sex. This shows very bad boundaries and a distinct lack of concern for you. I keep going back to her making those calls to you and still continuing the sex right up to leaving. If it had been a one night stand followed be deep regret I might feel more sympathy for her. Hell, if it had been a ONS she very well might have avoided the herpes. And I hope you don't believe this experience alone would cause her to become a safe partner because it won't. She is broken and it will take dedicated IC to even try to fix her.

I believe she is truly sorry for what she did because of the lasting damage it will cause her even if you were to take her back. However that doesn't make her a safe partner for you nor is there any guarantee she ever will be.

To start a marriage with this hanging over you both seems like a crazy thing to do. It would almost be a kindness for you both to find new partners so that neither of you will have to spend the rest of your lives looking at the other person knowing what she did. She would have a husband she hopefully hadn't cheated on and you would have a wife you felt loved you and you could trust unconditionally.

Believe me when I say that she isn't remorseful yet.

Why? Because is takes TIME for remorse to set in. For example:

"I deserve everything you say to me. I failed. I was a bad partner. I screwed up, betrayed your trust, and have destroyed the strong relationship we built for so many years. I deserve your hatred. All I can do is tell you how incredibly sorry I am, how unbelievably regretful I am, and how badly I want to try to fix what I have ruined. I will do whatever I can to try to make things right again. I know I have caused you an unbelievable amount of pain. And no, you didn't deserve even an ounce of it."

Pardon my language, but she has no fucking idea how much pain she has caused you. YOU don't even know how much more pain this will have caused, because you simply don't know yet. Infidelity takes years to work through, and you are still in the shock of discovery phase. I wish that I could say that the worst is behind you, but different people respond in different ways. She dropped this shitstorm on you, but she has no idea of the long-term effects that you may suffer.

So, if nothing else, let's put remorse down the road(maybe it's a sore spot for me ).

That aside, it's been mentioned that her coping skills are either terrible, or she truly doesn't care about you as much as she claims. She was played....pretty foolishly....by some guy in just a few weeks. She now has a lifelong reminder of such. She also mentioned to the OM that she had an *obligation* to work things out with you. How the hell does that compute? She forfeited any rights she had the moment she crossed the line with this guy. It is your decision what happens next. And you should be looking....not DEMANDING....for some of these ACTIONS:

--Setting up IC for herself ASAP

--Obtaining books/literature about this path of destruction

--Online help/forums for dealing with poor boundaries

--Seeking from you of what you want and need

What makes it even harder, is that words are double-edged. She may mean what she says, but she has proven that her words are not only meaningless at this point, but actually damaging....because she has used them to hurt you. It just adds to the confusion. But if her actions start to line up with the words, then there is the possibility that trust can eventually be rebuilt. IF you are willing to take that path. Again, that is entirely your call.

Remember, it was stated that your gf is currently not a safe partner. That is a fact. What she does from this point forward will be an indicator if she is worth taking that risk for again.

I don't know Toopol. There's a lot you'd have to swallow.

I agree with you, you have been with her for five years. You were about to propose. I think you need to sit back and truly think things through, if only for your own piece of mind.

But as I said above... it's a lot to swallow. You were ready to propose. You told her this while she was away. She didn't say to herself, "oh my god, what am I doing!" and immediately stop the affair. Conversely, she continued it. Probably gave him a goodbye fuck and a peck on the cheek. That's one classy chick you're worried about.

And now... she's got a lifetime STD. And if you stay with her, you're going to get a lifetime STD.

Sounds to me like it might be a bridge too far.

Another thing that bothers me, what in the heck is her IC doing, saying things like "she's a long ways away... that may explain things...", etc. That sounds like bullshit. I mean, what happens on her next business trip, a long ways away?

I'm also a little suspicious that your IC "guessed" that she was in an affair. Do you think it's possible your girlfriend contacted your IC and told her about it in advance? If not, that's a pretty good guess. And if she DID know about it, then you've got another problem. You've got an IC that is lying to you and trying to manipulate you for your girlfriend's advantage.

to recap.

you were ready to propose and she knew it. you told her about it on the phone. she continued to sleep with this guy. and let's be honest... I agree with the other poster that listed all the disgusting things she probably did with him. (you probably need to find out all of the details to truly make an informed decision.)

And to top it all off, she contracted a lifetime STD, and now wants you to forgive her.

sounds a lot to forgive considering you're not even married yet.

in short, i guess, I agree that you should think this through. But I'm afraid when you do, you may think that it's time to move on.

Good luck friend.

[This message edited by mike7 at 8:26 AM, April 24th (Sunday)]

Your gf is not a safe partner and never will be because she has a life long STD, from an affair! She does seem to be heading down the path to remorse but, so what! You are not married to her and have no kids with her. I don't know what you want from the posters here.

I have so much sympathy for you and for the pain that has been inflicted on you. But I for one, would never say R in this situation. Your health is to important.

[This message edited by atalosss at 8:31 AM, April 24th (Sunday)]

Toopol, you are getting some difficult 2X4s and brutal honesty here, and it's pretty inspiring to see the strength you have to continue posting. Please don't stop.

You have been TRAUMATIZED!

As BSs, we have an ENORMOUS amount of empathy for what you are going through, and the posts reflect as much. I also think there's an assumption that most BSs that JFO may have low self-esteem and -respect, and so the responses are people wanting to stand up and protect you in case you aren't able to for yourself. Looking at the facts of her betrayals and the timeline of events, including the amount of time before you began talking about R with her, we are worried that you are not standing up for the safety and love in your relationship that you deserve and that are necessary for a healthy partnership.

Personally, reading your story puts me back to my first DDay when I was engaged to my fiance (now WW) and found out she had cheated, and I desperately clung to the idea that it wouldn't end us and I could still have the life with her I had wanted and planned. I so badly wanted her to be the person I thought she was, the person she has portrayed herself to be for the first 3 years of our relationship. But wanting it wasn't enough. I should not have married this person, because she was very broken. I didn't want to see it, and she was so good at finding the right words and actions to soothe me. I think she even deluded herself into believing that she was a different person, someone who would never commit that betrayal again.

I only wish that I had had the strength to look past my fears when making my choice, and the respect for myself enough to fight for the safety and happiness I deserved in my partner. Now it's 10 years later, another affair, and I feel like I've thrown away a decade of my love and energy by giving it to someone who was never truly as committed or in love with me as I was with her.

Nothing but support, brother! You have been traumatized and are in hell! Please don't stop posting!

[This message edited by Shattereddd at 10:07 AM, April 24th (Sunday)]

Toopol - putting aside what she's doing and saying right now

What are you doing to take care of yourself? Have you gotten STD tested?

Do you have an ic (individual counselor) outside of the couples counselor?

There are some useful books - how to help your spouse heal after your affair. I found it useful for validating a lot of my feelings as well as offering perspective on what my husband was doing after my dday

You do not need to figure anything out this moment. You don't.

He told her that she was his soul mate, that he wanted to marry her, that she should move to be with him, and that this was her last chance to leave her boring life with me and live an exciting life with him.

A main concern is that she fell for that crap.

She has a hell of a lot to learn about players, guys with radars and being fed a line of crap to have sex.

She has a lot to learn about how to handle herself when guys come onto her.

Why would being on a trip be any different than some male coworker giving her the same line of crap.

Yes, she has a lot to learn so it never happens again.

I'm sorry you find yourself here Toopol. Most of us have been where you are now, so there's a lot of experience, which can be taken as wisdom or vitriol; it depends on your perspective.

My standard response to members is, What would you tell your brother or your best friend if he came to you with the same story? What would your best advice be? Then, listen to yourself.

Good luck, and keep reading, even if you don't like what you're seeing. Perspective will come.

You have a very difficult decision to make. Don't let his bad advice be part of the process -

Our therapist emphasizes that because it happened so far away and in such an unusual context, people do things they would never normally do.

WTF? So - you can only trust her when she is in town, in very normal circumstances? That isn't going to be a very fun marriage. That isn't a good excuse either.

I think I would hhave walked out of the therapy session.

Hi Toopol,

I have read your updates through the thread but none of the responses from other members. You'll have to forgive me if reiterate what others have said.

Only you live day to day with your WGF. We only know what you tell us and obviously you can't give us a detailed account of every conversation the two of you have or positive action she shows. We can only form opinions on what you tell us and that is the downfall of giving advice on a forum.

You really should consider all the given advice from the perspective that we all have personal experience with infidelity. Unfortunately there are thousands of us on here who have seen it, done it, and lived through it all. It is our collective experiences that are important when taking our advice.

This is NOT a jab at your therapist. Your therapist knows what she was taught in school and what her clients have talked to her about when it comes to infidelity. I doubt her experiences dealing with couples going through it number in the thousands or even hundreds. She may or may not have personally gone through it. Just my 2 cents, but I believe finding a counselor who specializes in infidelity is extremely important.

Healing from infidelity can take a good 3-5 years. Some people (me included) go a year, 18 months, 2 years, 3 years and think all is good and wonderful. Then all of a sudden a trigger or another event hits and they realize that they are not recovered. I am 13 years out and realize that I have swept stuff under the rug that still hurts me to this day. Nothing major, but enough to put me in a funk. Is your WGF prepared to wait 3-5 years? Is she willing to be asked questions 13 years later and patiently answer them?

Only you can decide to stay or go. Keep in mind this though, it is "easier" to leave now than divorce later. I am pretty sure if I were to go back and read all of the replies the majority of SI members will tell you to run and have very good reasons to do that. My suggestions is to at the very least RETURN the ring. You don't want to propose in a "fairy tale reconciliation moment" then realize later is was just an emotional reaction to a conversation or event not a well thought out rational decision.

Best of luck,

SadsadSammie

He told her that she was his soul mate, that he wanted to marry her, that she should move to be with him, and that this was her last chance to leave her boring life with me and live an exciting life with him.

And if he had been all of that, you'd be a historical note in her life story. She wanted what he was selling, got what he actually had (an STD) and is now going back to her fallback plan. You.

Really sad stuff, my friend. Whoever she marries, she is going to have to break it to them that she has herpes, which lasts forever. I hope for your sake it is not you.

Take care...

For me it comes down to the fact you were talking about proposing to her which is a great time in a relationship and she continued to cheat even after that . To me it shows her true colours.

Topool we are the same age and I feel like you have rose colored glasses. You only see the good in her and none of the bad! She gave into a front desk guy at a hotel?!? Are you kidding me?! You are about to propose (or staying with)to a woman who got herpes from a front guy at a hotel. You need to walk away date meet other girls. She already walked out on you, no marriage not kids, you two might rekindle in a year or two. But if you don't do this you will always resent yourself for settling. Sorry for the 2x4s but feel like I had to 28 to 28 year old guy advice.

A person in love does not start cheating after a few weeks of separation, especially with a person she just met. If he could talk his way into her bed with only interaction at the front desk (assuming he wasn't around for social time) then she must have been looking for action.

She has some very poor boundaries of which you need to be aware. That she could continue to cheat after finding out you planned to propose only shows she is not the person you thought she was.

You said she fessed up prior to knowing she had herpes? How do you know that. It is possible that she may had symptoms prior to her getting home so she already knew her goose was cooked.

Long time ago my girlfriend only lasted two weeks once I went into the army; so much for her "Love". I gave her another chance and she repeated her cheating.

You have to decide what is right for you, maybe it will work out better for you.

Thanks everyone. I'm reading, and I appreciate the comments.

Sorry you are going through this,but she didn't even practice safe sex,and she really loves you of course .best of luck whatever you decide .

I know its easy for us to just say "run" but:

She played (and is still playing) you like a fiddle. She knows exactly what to say to make you have hope.

Of course she told you about it as soon as she came back - she already got her kicks while on the road and knew it would be a matter of time before you found out.

Living with herpes can be painful!

You have been give a good indication of how she handles herself and what she is, and you would be wise to heed it.

As has been said, many of us would have loved to get the early warning you have been given - consider yourself very lucky. And DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH HER ANYMORE!

And this may not have been her first rodeo - maybe the first with herpes.

She probably thinks its ok to do this sort of thing when on the road and she is unhappy with you.

Beware!

The other guy appealed to her with extravagant claims of love. Where I was tepid and unsure of our relationship, he was ardent and absolutely certain. He told her that she was the only one for him, that he wanted to marry her as soon as possible, and that even if she stayed with me, he would wait for her forever (but that she should do what she wants, because he just wants her to be happy). He also told her that he was a virgin, and she was the first person he had ever had sex with. But now she has herpes.

I am sorry to say it, but it is such a funny story. I need to tell you, she is a habitual liar, and I am very concerned you are too innocent, and almost bought the story.

I traveled for years internationally for my work before I married. I stayed in 3-5 start hotels normally. These young guys working in hotel, always prey girls travel alone. These guys are not virgin, they are probably married with kids or at least GF in their real life. But they try to talk to the woman customers who stay in the hotel alone, and find the opportunity to visit her room at night.

I never for the crap, but I am telling you, I have seen so many girls like the attention, flirt back, and fall for it. Next thing? The hotel guys will sneak into her room for sex every night until she leaves.

How do I know? Once I stayed in a hotel for 2 weeks, acuqaited with a girl staying next my room. We decided take a city btour together during weekend.

Saturday morning at 6 am, she called me, canceled the tour, and told me she was tired. Not a big deal. I was awaken, decided to get some Starbucks coffee in lobby. When I just opened my room door, I saw the hotel receptionist came out of from her room. Since then, I saw the hotel hotel receptionist so often to go in and out from her room. Do I have to say he had grin on his face?

It takes only flirt to get these self motivated girls, such as "you are beautiful. Where you from? I wish I have a GF like you." That is more than enough. They do not have to mention M or commitment.

Think about it. The hotel room is already paid by the girls, these girls are far away from home, they have to go back soon, so causing the hotel boys no money or trouble. It is like picking up a low hanging fruits. These hotel boys mind, they are helping these girls to have fun.

She cheated on you with the hotel boy, and manipulated her story by adding the "proposal" to blame shift on you. She knows the "delayed proposal" is the hot button to pay you. She is outsmart.

I actually do not know she slept with a hotel boy alone every night, or she randomly slept with many guys in the town as well. You cannot prove it, so nobody knows.

Stop blame yourself. It does not matter you proposed her already, or married her already. This type of manipulating girl would find the EXCUSES and have sex with any men anyway. It is a matter of time. It is her character in her blood. Maybe you sensed something wrong in her, so you were hesitant to propose her before.

My advice is, please break up with her, and find a better girls, who has self esteem and moral.

As others say, you are still young, and no kids with her. Please thank god, and walk away for your sake of happiness.

[This message edited by zero2016 at 8:16 AM, April 25th (Monday)]