SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Couples can reconcile after infidelity. It is extremely hard in the best of circumstances. Think about this -she is a liar and a cheater, she may never do it again, but you will never forget it, never fully trust her, and may never fully forgive her. You will always be the betrayed in the relationship, that hurt will never fully go away. I think that is what folks are trying to say.

Being married for 40 years and deciding to reconcile is tough even when 39 of those years was perfect. You don't have that experience with her. It will be difficult and cheaters often repeat their performance.

I sound like I'm just in denial. I need to process this, and I want to ask more questions and push back a little.

You've just experienced a MAJOR trauma. Shock/denial is the first stage you go through. It's totally natural and it's OK.

she asked if it was possible that my girlfriend was cheating. Absolutely not, I said. Our relationship was founded on absolute honesty. And she wasn't the type.

Along with the shock/denial, there is cognitive dissonance. You believed one thing about your girlfriend and you believed it strongly. You have just been shown the exact opposite is true, but the mind struggles to let go of past assumptions. It's another crazy part of this whole experience.

She's willing to work on fixing the damage she's done....she's supporting me through my own pain and anger..She says all the right things. ...she's doing everything right

Not really. Focusing on you is nice and important, but it isn't the real issue. The problem is that she is broken. She has a character gap that led her to think that cheating was OK. That is a deep flaw that doesn't just go away and it will resurface in the future if she doesn't deal with it.

Of course she is saying all the right things. She has desperately been seeking security in the form of a ring. She learned that the other man was lying to her the whole time in dramatic fashion through the discovery that she now has a STD. It has dawned on her that she was played and that a relationship with the other man isn't viable as she simply can't trust him. To top it off, you just produced the ring that she wants. Given that her pursuit of the other man didn't work out liked she thought it would, you are now Plan B and she will do whatever she can to not lose again. That is a powerful dynamic that will make it appear that she is doing the "right things", but is more likely to just be an external show that is driven by her own deep-seated insecurities.

I trust that she truly regrets and hates that she did it

Of course she regrets what she did. She got burned by the OM and she just lost her marriage proposal from you. She doesn't like the consequences she is feeling. But regret isn't remorse. Regret is about her and her pain. Remorse is about you and your pain. She is showing regret, but you need to see remorse.

I told her I was having doubts about our relationship. She didn't know I was feeling that way, and felt betrayed....We started going to therapy together. Things got better. I worked through a lot of my own issues.

There is so much here.

1. You had doubts. It would seem that your gut was trying to tell you something. It's a theme that surfaces here on SI fairly regularly -- the presence of a feeling without any evidence. Always listen to your gut.

2. Your doubts were turned against you as it was framed that you "betrayed" your GF. That's a very manipulative move.

3. You went to therapy and, based on the limited info and the overall story, it sounds like it was used to focus on your "issues" so that you would propose. At the same time, your GF felt free to be looking elsewhere. Again, more manipulation.

And our therapist thinks we can work through it.

Right now, the focus shouldn't be on "we". It should be obvious to the therapist that the issue is your GF. She was clear sighted enough to suspect cheating previously and, if she is really good, she should be indicating to you that your GF needs a lot of individual help, that you have some immense work to do in order to heal and that "we" isn't on the table right now.

When *would* it be worth trying?

Only when you have a truly remorseful partner that is fully committed to doing everything possible to radically change themselves and to help you heal. If she only regrets what happened, that isn't enough. If she isn't seeing that she is broken and investing a ton of effort into sorting out why that is, how to change and how to become a safe partner, that isn't enough. All too often, the focus is on getting past the "mistake", rugsweeping and moving forward which is a recipe for disaster.

I'd offer a several things.

1. If your mind feels like mush, your emotions are urging you to hang on to the time you've invested and you are clinging to hope, that is what the weeks after being betrayed can look like. You are in shock and denial. Don't allow it to motivate you to rush to commit to trying to fix everything at this point. If you aren't at a point where you are done, at an absolute minimum, give your GF and therapist an "I'm unsure that I'm able to accept this."

2. Your GF has just exposed who she really is. She is self-centered and willing to step outside of a committed relationship if she thinks it benefits her. She did all of this in the midst of seeing your work in therapy. Once she was having the affair, she even continued it with the knowledge that a proposal was coming. She was disrespectful and manipulative. She is incredibly broken. Believe what she has shown you.

3. You KNOW that she is broken and has deep seated character gaps that open her up to betraying you. If not dealt with properly and fully, this will happen yet again. Over time, there have been many stories here on SI about those who caught their partner cheating before marriage, but chose to push onward anyway only to discover another affair or even a pattern of infidelity years later.

4. Many, many of us would jump at the chance to heed the warning signs earlier as we've been through so much pain that could have been avoided. To us, seeing who our partner really is before marriage, kids, etc. would have been a huge "gift". It's why you are getting so many "Run!" responses. In hindsight, that is exactly what we would do and is what we would recommend to our own kids if they found themselves in that situation.

I'm very sorry that you've found the need to join our group, but glad that you found us. This is tremendously difficult to deal with, but we understand what you are struggling with. Everyone here, whether gentle, blunt or forceful, is commenting out of a desire to help. However, everyone's mind and heart processes at different speeds, so take the time you need to digest not only what has happened, but also what people are trying to communicate. Keep venting and questioning as you work your way through this. We are here for you.

[This message edited by Crushed7 at 11:31 AM, April 23rd (Saturday)]

Thank you, everyone. I'm reading everything here.

Last night, after posting this thread, I wrote her a long, angry letter. I listed everything I hated about what she did to me. Every detail, every wrinkle that made it that made it so painful. I vented, and it felt good.

She wrote back a long response, and she said everything right. She took all of the blame. She showed huge remorse. She told me she was ready to do anything to keep me.

Honestly, at this moment, I lean more towards running, as so many people here have advised me.

But a few things still give me hope. She told me about it when she got back, when it would have been incredibly easy to keep me in the dark. (She didn't find out about the herpes until later.) She was wonderful for several years before this, whereas I was often an emotionally unsteady partner. Our therapist emphasizes that because it happened so far away and in such an unusual context, people do things they would never normally do. (If it happened here, our therapist says, then yeah, it would be a different story.) And now, even in my gut, I really think she hates what she did. We try to figure how "how could this happen" but she doesn't use the answers as excuses. I asked her how long she would wait for me to get past it, and she said "as long as you need". And she swears that she's learned a lesson, albeit one that she agrees she already should have known, and that it will never never never happen again. And I'm inclined to believe her. More fool me.

Talk is cheap. What actions have she done?

I am very skeptical about one who confesses.

Will she go on other long business trips?

Why do you have a therapist for couples counseling when you are not even engaged yet? Is that a normal thing that couples do these days? When I was younger, I would never even think about it. If it didn't work out, we would break up, not get a therapist. We would take it as a sign of not being right for each other.

Why do you think people want you to leave her? The people who know and love you, I mean, not here on the internet. I wish I would have listened more to my parents when they gave me advice, but I had to learn my lessons the hard way. It sticks that way, but luckily I had no long-lasting effects. Like herpes.

There are statistics about divorce. I am too lazy to look them up, but I think about half or maybe a little less than half of people get divorced. I never thought I would get divorced. I still have not, but I seriously considered it when my wife cheated on me. I never thought my wife would cheat on me.

No one thinks they will get divorced. No one thinks their spouses will cheat on them. Even after about 20 years, with 2 kids, which is where I was when it happened. With no herpes. But as you have found out, you have no choice. It happened to you, really it was beyond your control.

If she cheats again, will you divorce her? Assuming you are married at that point? Then you have herpes, I guess, and how will you feel at that point?

I think that is a lot to have against you when you get started. Obviously by the amount of people who divorce, it is difficult enough. And you and I are really no better or worst than mostly everybody else, although we think it won't happen to us, we are so much more aware and it won't let it happen to us.

Why did she keep cheating after you and her cried on the phone together and you told her that I was making plans to propose? She knew it was wrong, but she continued.

Why did she keep cheating after she had decided that she was going to tell you about it after she got back? She knew it was wrong, but she continued.

Why do you think she will not cheat again, even though she supposedly knows better now? It would be nice if she could actually DO SOMETHING rather than just cry and say sorry.

Believe me, though, I know about learning your lesson the hard way. It is nice if you can learn by what others tell you like your parents and older relatives, but you learn it like you will never forget it when you do it the hard way yourself.

I really do hope that you look on her phone and social media and email. There should be no secrets in a marriage, and what will be there that she would care that you know about it unless it is secrets and lies?

Why not continue to date for a few more years and see how it goes? Is there a rush to propose? Take your time. See how you feel in a year. Infidelity is a huge trauma. It takes years to get over. Personally, I would not stay with her, because you are beginning the marriage at a deficit, and will have to work really hard. And marriage is not easy without infidelity, it's excruciating with it.

Good luck to you!

And she swears that she's learned a lesson, albeit one that she agrees she already should have known, and that it will never never never happen again. And I'm inclined to believe her.

I'm not one to say cut and run either like jb. That said, has to be right circumstances and that is not what you have here.

her words are cheap and mean nothing. her actions mean everything. My mother promised it would never happen again (betrayed child here) after every time I caught her. 7+ ddays later here I am.

If she's learned her lesson, in what way has she learned it? If you were to ask her how can she guarantee that it will never happen again and all she says is she learned her lesson, well bullshit. She should be able to give you tangibles of exactly how she would prevent herself from going down the slippery slope again.

From your story to me it sounds like she has horrible coping mechanisms. There was strain on the relationship on her end right? So what happens when there are way more stressful things in life later down the road that happen? Can she tell you what her coping mechanisms are so that she won't go down the slippery slope and seek comfort in another man again? If she is in IC her therapist should be able to give her tools to help her preventing doing that to herself again. If she is truly remorseful she would realize that a huge betrayal was to herself. She should know how to prevent that again for herself if she was really going to be a safer, more authentic partner. That is not what you have here and she is not a safe partner for you.

yop

Our therapist emphasizes that because it happened so far away and in such an unusual context, people do things they would never normally do. (If it happened here, our therapist says, then yeah, it would be a different story.)

I dont really agree with that, whether it happened next door or on the moon, she still did it.

And a 2 week affair is not like a mistake, it continued with plans and forethought.

She did it while on some trip, and the next time with the guy at the corner store or bar. What are her plans to begin to figure out what caused her to do this and why.

So far, all she has done is talked a good game. She found it easy to have the affair AND lie to you for 2 weeks about it.

What happens the next time she finds it easy. She has a hell of a lot of work to do in order to even figure out how she let herself cross all of these boundaries.

I am not going to say, run or stay. But I wanted to say some reasons I could not stay after 20 years devotion on my part.

Imo if you stay and gf stays, it seems possible she could want an open relationship, not just one guy, but you said she tried breaking up already. Are you willing to share that part of your life with her? I could not. Apologies if this idea is too far off base. Its what x wanted here but had no courage to tell me.

The other thing is that over time, it made a mess of my nerves to wander where he was once I knew I was not the only one for him.

Nor could I tolerate chances of stds for myself and kids.

Also, he gave personal information of mine to various women and other stuff that severely ruined my security sothat I no longer use social media.

Be weary, Topool, of who you let in your life...and how much. Keep your best interest at the top of the priorities list because there are people who do crazy things it takes years to fix.

Starting over is only new for a time. But there is safety in it once the storm passes. Maybe someone will come along someday who will not bring drama to your door but respect.

[This message edited by Ashland13 at 5:27 PM, April 23rd (Saturday)]

Affairs take 2-5 years of HARD work to overcome as a couple. And that's only if she's willing to do the work (not just regret or I wish I could undo it) to figure out why she had the affair in the first place. And if you're willing to do the work.

There are some links in The Healing Library (upper left) under "articles" that will give you helpful information.

I have no advice on whether to stay or leave. I don't think you need to figure it out this moment.

I'm glad you have a therapist. But I'd caution against buying into the "different context, act like a different person" that minimizes your girlfriend's *choice* in this.

Unusual contexts happen often in a long term relationship.

Your therapist was wrong for saying that to you. Maybe his motivation was to offer some understanding in your time of emotional chaos. But he should have qualified his statements, because there is no excuse for infidelity. Familiar place or not, there is no excuse. What he should have told you is that she made a conscious choice to betray you, and it was not because of you, it was because of something that is broken inside her.

Wow, brother, I'm sorry. Make whatever decision you KNOW if best for you (not just what you WANT to be best for you).

And as for the suggestions you get on the forums, take what you need and leave the rest. We are here for you. And when you get our honesty and "2X4s", it's because we truly care about you and are trying to be a lighthouse in the emotional store. We care about your long-term happiness, and we know it's hard to focus on the future when the present is filled with such anguish.

Sending strength!

Please don't jump down my throat if I sound like I'm just in denial. I need to process this, and I want to ask more questions and push back a little. It's not because I'm not listening. It's because I want to hear more.

Members - read this, and then re-read it. JFO is a raw, painful place. You can be adamant about your viewpoint without being insulting.

Please keep your advice compassionate as we all recall the confusion that takes a LONG time to dissipate after DDay.

Members - read this, and then re-read it. JFO is a raw, painful place. You can be adamant about your viewpoint without being insulting.

Please keep your advice compassionate as we all recall the confusion that takes a LONG time to dissipate after DDay.

Thanks, Jrazz. This forum has been lovely so far. I posted on reddit's /r/relationships forum and some of those folks really went for the "tough love" approach. (Plus there were a few people PMing me telling me to kill myself etc. But those were easy to ignore.) I appreciate the more compassionate tone here, even though it's delivering the same basic message.

I'd still love to hear more if anyone else wants to add their voice.

(Plus there were a few people PMing me telling me to kill myself etc.

Ohhh, Reddit. Always so classy.

Welcome to the forum, toopol. Lots of good people around here.

It does not matter how far away it happened.

You take you with you.....everywhere YOU go. She did not cheat because it was far away. She cheated because she wanted to. When that wanting feeling called, she answered. If the feeling hits again close to home, she my do it again.

There is a world full of non-cheating, herpes (caught from AP) free women. I suggest you put your attention on finding one of those.

Actually it might be useful to have just a little more information. For instance your ages and how long you been exclusive along with how she met OM and how long after they met that they began having sex. Was this a three-month business trip or a three-week trip? The younger you are and the shorter the period of time you’ve been together the more likely it would be that I recommend you run. And obviously the circumstances surrounding the A and the wayward’s reaction when JFO also weigh heavily when making a recommendation.

From what you have described so far it sounds to me like your WGF was looking for a reason to terminate your relationship when she called and quizzed you whether you’d ever be ready for marriage. The fact that she continued the affair even after you had told her you were planning to propose indicates to me that she was considering dumping you for the OM. What makes you think that the later call saying she had something to tell you when she got back wasn’t her way of setting the scene for breaking up with you when she got back? She said she was OK when you ask her how she was. She didn’t say she was distraught. Did she sound regretful or remorseful when she made that phone call? Her considering dumping you explains why she continued to have sex with him up until the end. From what you have written it sounds like OM was a player and I’m guessing it didn’t take him long to bed your WGF. She was an easy score and not much of a challenge for him and I’m guessing the closer it got to her departure date the more obvious he was making it that their relationship was not destined to be permanent. She probably slept with him up to departure hoping to win him back and when that didn’t work she realized she’d been played. It goes without saying that she will never admit to this.

You need to understand that the promises that she is making about never doing this again are worthless. Right now you are dealing with the same person that you dealt with before she left on her trip except that she has herpes. If you would’ve asked her before she left on her trip I’m sure she would’ve assured you that she would never be unfaithful and yet she was. What really has changed? Does she understand why she did this? Suggesting that it was your uncertainty about marriage is nothing but blame shifting and you absolutely should not buy into it. That was not the reason that she cheated and until she understands why she did it you should ignore any statements from her about never doing it again. Also, any statements from her about regretting what she did, hating herself for what she did or wishing that it had never happened has nothing to do with remorse. You say she is saying all the right things so what is it that she’s telling you that you are taking as her being remorseful? Are they about what she’s done to the relationship or herself or is it about what she has done to you and the pain it has caused you?

I’d like to believe that you understand you will never forget she did this. This is a lifelong burden that you will have. You are going to worry whenever she takes a business trip or any trip for that matter by herself. You’re going to worry if she has to work late or if it takes her longer to come home from shopping that you had anticipated. It will take years to fully R and for her to regain your trust. If it doesn’t then you will have rug swept which is a foolish thing to do. The question for you is whether you are prepared to spend the next 2 to 5 years with no guarantee of R but with the distinct possibility of contracting herpes and thereby limiting your pool of future partners.You need to do what is best for you. At this point in time you need to be very selfish and only think yourself. I realize it may be difficult not to factor in her feelings but she is the one who created this mess and such are her consequences.Again, when you make your decision do what is best for YOU.

People date before marriage for this exact reason. She told you what kind of person she is when things become tough. It is like taking a test ride and the car breaking down in the middle. Would you still buy the car ? People should think really hard whether they should stay together after infidelity in a marriage. It is a no-brainer when it happens in the dating phase.

I actually saw your reddit thread. Excluding the trolls, they gave you the right advice. What you need to do is pretty obvious to any looking at the situation objectively. The problem was that you only wanted people to tell you to reconcile and that there is hope you can fix. So you posted on the survivinginfidelity sub and then on this site.

The problem here is that you want to reconcile so bad that you are lying to yourself and trying to warp the reality around you. You are falling over yourself trying to forgive her. You keep repeating every second line that "you believe her" and talk as if by confessing, she did you a huge favor..Those are pretty low standards at any level.

The problem here is not only her morality or trustworthiness as a partner. It is about you too. Do you actually have thee capability to break off the relationship with her ?Do you have actual deal breakers ?

Actually it might be useful to have just a little more information. For instance your ages and how long you been exclusive along with how she met OM and how long after they met that they began having sex. Was this a three-month business trip or a three-week trip? The younger you are and the shorter the period of time you’ve been together the more likely it would be that I recommend you run. And obviously the circumstances surrounding the A and the wayward’s reaction when JFO also weigh heavily when making a recommendation.

I'm 28 and she's 27. We've been together for about 5 years. It was a 5-week trip, and the affair started a little after about 3 weeks.

The other guy definitely seems like a player. He worked at the hotel she stayed at. She mentioned him to me a few times in the first half of the trip (as just a very friendly guy who worked the front desk). He told her that she was his soul mate, that he wanted to marry her, that she should move to be with him, and that this was her last chance to leave her boring life with me and live an exciting life with him. She slept with him because she liked the attention. She says that she told him that he was being silly with the marriage proposals etc, that she had an obligation to try to work things out with me... but she kept sleeping with him until she flew home.

She didn't really seem to regret it (on phone calls or in person) until she was actually in the process of telling me about it, late on the day she came home. At that point she didn't know about the herpes, and she still thought the other guy was sincere, but she started crying and saying that she doesn't know how she forgot what a good relationship she had with me.

I asked her if she had even been planning to break up with me, and she said no.

In trying to process this, I wrote her a long angry email, and she wrote a response. "I deserve everything you say to me. I failed. I was a bad partner. I screwed up, betrayed your trust, and have destroyed the strong relationship we built for so many years. I deserve your hatred. All I can do is tell you how incredibly sorry I am, how unbelievably regretful I am, and how badly I want to try to fix what I have ruined. I will do whatever I can to try to make things right again. I know I have caused you an unbelievable amount of pain. And no, you didn't deserve even an ounce of it." And on and on it goes in that tone. I really do think she's feeling remorse and that, at least in this moment, she's hoping that we can reconcile. But I don't know if that's enough.

I actually saw your reddit thread. Excluding the trolls, they gave you the right advice. What you need to do is pretty obvious to any looking at the situation objectively. The problem was that you only wanted people to tell you to reconcile and that there is hope you can fix. So you posted on the survivinginfidelity sub and then on this site.

The problem here is that you want to reconcile so bad that you are lying to yourself and trying to warp the reality around you. You are falling over yourself trying to forgive her. You keep repeating every second line that "you believe her" and talk as if by confessing, she did you a huge favor..Those are pretty low standards at any level.

I believe some of what she says. I'm fully aware of my biases, but I'm ultimately in the best position to judge. Even if I believe that she's remorseful, that doesn't mean I'm going to forgive her.

I learn through debate and dialogue. I play devil's advocate. When the predominant opinion is "cut and run", I want to voice whatever argument I can for the other side, just because I want to take the conversation through its steps.

That doesn't mean I'm in denial. That's not the same as only wanting to hear one answer. I'm super sick of being called a doormat at this point. This was a long relationship, I was just about to propose, and I found out about the affair just over a week ago. I'm very probably going to break up with her. And in that context, when I'm wrestling with the most painful thing that's ever happened to me in my life, I don't want to take shit from you. So don't tell me what I want to hear, and don't tell me why I went from forum to forum. I came here seeking compassion and advice from people who've been through it. And, yes, from people who tried to reconcile, since I know those people exist. Cut me some slack.

[This message edited by justgetoverit at 2:47 AM, April 24th (Sunday)]