SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I haven't read all of the threads on the post. Just so you know. Take it from an almost 65 year old man who ignored, excused, overlooked, rug swept, etc. all of the flashing red lights for STOP! STOP! STOP! Run. Run fast. Leave no forwarding address.

My fiance was beautiful, intelligent, personable. She committed adultery before we were married as I have since found out and she had an LTA after 25 years of marriage, 3 wonderful daughters and a good life. You do not want my life. RUN.

Topol, how long did it take you to have sex with your girlfriend when you first met her?

Two years.

When we got together, she told me she was a "no-sex-til-marriage kinda gal". That never really made much sense to me (she had had oral and manual sex with two of her past boyfriends), but I respected it absolutely, and she never used it to try to pressure me into marriage. We fooled around in other ways that she was comfortable with. We talked about sex sometimes, and very gradually she shed her inhibitions. Two years into our relationship, we lost our virginities to each other.

It was never fundamentally important to me that we be each other's only sexual partners ever, but I always thought it was kind of nice. I've never had sex with anyone else. This guy was her second. I resent it.

You need to look past her words and any "love bombing" she is doing right now.

I am getting fucking carpet bombed with love right now. She's the perfect picture of a remorseful partner. I wish she would act like a villain again, at least for a little while. That would make it so much easier.

We've established a pattern: she'll be incredibly sweet to me in the morning, and I'll feel all the love that I had before. Then, over the course of the day, while we're apart, I slowly feel worse and worse, reading this forum and obsessing over what happened. And then we see each other in the evening, and usually I'll cry, and sometimes so will she, and I'll go to bed feeling a little better about us. Rinse and repeat. I'm at a low point now.

Sorry you are here my man

You had something special. You remained faithful. You were about to propose. You are in limbo about what to do.

She had something special. She decided to fuck some other dude repeatably. She continued to have sex with another dude knowing you were going to propose. She contracted herpes. She has expressed regret for her actions. Throwing herself at you does not constitute remorse. She is ashamed of her actions and cannot believe what she did.

You really have nothing in common. As you are faithful & she is not. Before you are married is when you develope trust, loyalty & bond together as two.

You're WGF has shown she is not you're future mate by doing what she did. If you decide to stay together rest assured that there will be other times when you're M hits a rough patch. What do you expect her reaction to be then.Will your mind start playing with you adding extra stress to the rough patch.

Its totally you're choice my man but there are countless Marriages that have failed and neither partner cheated on each other before the M. You are already faced with this shit and you have the opportunity to just walk away without any obligations and find someone who can be faithful.

no-sex-til-marriage kinda gal

LOL. She only stopped the A with her herpes partner after she had her fill of strange

[This message edited by notanotherchance at 9:26 PM, April 25th (Monday)]

I learn through debate and dialogue. I play devil's advocate. When the predominant opinion is "cut and run", I want to voice whatever argument I can for the other side, just because I want to take the conversation through its steps.

How about this angle:

The very best thing you can do for her right now is to leave her. That's right. It's really the only way she is going to learn from this experience and become a better person and partner. More importantly, she's not going to be happy with you long term. You two aren't a match. Two years of devotion vs two weeks of occasional idle talk? You are a great guy, good to her but a little unconfident and apprehensive sometimes. You both have work to do on yourselves separately. Otherwise 20 years and two kids later from right now you will be far deeper in this hole. Ask me how I know this.

She will never care more for you than while you're pulling away, but believe me it is the best thing for both of you.

I agree with antlered. This would not mean that you would not eventually get together when you've both grown, had a chance to reflect and spent some time apart. But you could be surprised that you may be able to see past the "fog" in a few months and realize that it's best. You have been together since you were very young adults. I have no doubt that the two of you care a lot for one another, but there is more to this story than you can see right now because your hurting.

You mentioned once that you think that we are calling you a doormat. It's not true. We care that others don't make the same mistakes that we have. And, only speaking for myself here, but that would be very hypocritical to call you that, because I was the queen of denial.

I got married at age 20 (barely) to a man much older. Before we were married, I had a lot of doubts, but I ignored them (they weren't as transparent as yours has become). We got married. A year later. . . I remember saying to my girl friend that he doesn't seem to be as in to me as I thought he was and I think that I made a mistake and how unhappy I am. Her words are still on the forefront in my mind even today. She said fix it or get out of the marriage. I said well he's so much older and was lonely when I met him what if he never finds anyone else. She said "what about when you are 50 and have led a lonely life and you never find anyone else."

Fast forward. . . he forward 25 years he found someone else WHILE WE WERE MARRIED and I have led a lonely life. I fear that now. I may be reaching 50 and will be lonely for the rest of my life. I'm still not divorced, but had the talk with my husband a few months ago.

I know your situation is different, but you have doubts, and you know that your girl is capable of cheating. She's proved it. Believe her. You still may not know the whole story even though you think you do. Cheaters become very good at lying. . not saying that she is but beware... cheater's are experts on compartmentalization. You said she's like the girl you feel in love with now. Who is that other girl? Does she even know? This is why you need time apart. She needs to look inside herself (so do you) and see that this kind of thing NEVER happens again for both your benefits. Don't wait as long as we did.

Joese

This guy was her second. I resent it.

I was in the same situation. You had something incredibly unique, but it has been taken and there is no way for it to be given back, replaced or fixed. Resenting it is a very polite way to describe it.

She's the perfect picture of a remorseful partner.

I've been love bombed to the point of believing that my partner was incredibly remorseful and would never betray me again. Unfortunately, that wasn't true as she did do it again. And she would appear to be remorseful all over again. I've now been through the betrayal/"remorse"/forgiveness cycle several times. This is the danger I'm trying to forewarn you about -- that your GF appears to be a remorseful partner, but all you are seeing so far is what is on the surface. Words are cheap and love bombing often is just a manipulative means of getting to rug sweeping everything.

I wish she would act like a villain again, at least for a little while. That would make it so much easier.

It won't show up anytime soon. The next time will be years down the road after you've been married, bought a house and, maybe, even had a kid. That's the problem. She isn't going to make this "easy" -- she is going to do everything in her power to suck you back in to believing that you should marry her.

But the villain is still inside of her. THAT is the point. Being incredibly nice, loving and kind is an effort to get you to forget that. "I can't believe I fell for that smooth-talking liar at the hotel", "I didn't think you would ever propose" or anything else is just an excuse and blame shifting. She is broken and, given the right circumstances, she can pursue another guy again. The ONLY thing that matters is that she needs to be working on herself. If she doesn't put in the time and effort (typically with a skilled IC over the course of many months), the villain still exists.

Toopol, I know it's very painful right now, but think of how you will feel when she cheats again after you're married and have kids?

I'm all for reconciliation if you have kids, but I would advise you to leave her. Leave her not just for you own sake but for her sake, and most importantly, the sake of your future children.

She needs to learn that there are consequences for cheating. If not, she will cheat again.

What will you tell your kids, when she cheats when they're 8 and 9 years old, and you divorce? "Sorry kids, I would have never imagined we would put you through this." You can't say that to them because you knew. You knew before getting married that she may cheat and you would get divorced, and tear your kids' lives apart. How will you live with that?

Thanks all.

I feel more and more like I need to make a decision soon. Either I need to allow myself to believe her, accept "she's doing everything right" as good enough, and give reconciliation a chance, or else I need to break up with her, connect with my wider support network, and start moving on.

I don't think she really understands that I'm on the ledge like this. I feel vaguely guilty that she doesn't know. We have another counseling session together tonight.

[This message edited by craverz at 5:38 PM, April 26th (Tuesday)]

She's the perfect picture of a remorseful partner.

Except, does she know why she did this, can she explain it to you. Can she explain how she knows she will never do this again.

Affairs can be like alcoholics, they swear they will never drink again while having a terrible hangover and as soon as the hangover is gone, they do it again.

You will probably never trust anyone again like you used to, and when it comes to your gf, she needs to figure this out now.

Either I need to allow myself to believe her, accept "she's doing everything right" as good enough, and give reconciliation a chance, or else I need to break up with her, connect with my wider support network, and start moving on.

I'd modify that a bit. You either need to decide that you are going to allow her and you some time to see if she is really reconciliation material or you walk away for good.

It is far too early to believe her and accept she is doing everything is right. Trust is earned over time. In the case of being betrayed, it should take a lot of time. Don't jump onto the forgive/forget/trust train -- it is a recipe for disaster.

Dude, GTFO

Seriously, it's one thing to go through the pain and trauma of infidelity and reconciliation when you have over a decade of shared history and children and intertwined finances. It's something entirely different if it's before you even really begin your relationship.

She showed you already that she isn't a safe partner. She made you wait two entire years because she was a "No sex before marriage" kind of girl then banged some other guy after knowing him for a few weeks at most (assuming she waited that long). Not only did she do that but she also picked up a lifelong bonus of an incurable STD.

You don't want that, period. You just don't.

There isn't any relationship here that's worth saving. It would be better for your to cut your losses now and move on. Because whether she cheats on your again or not, you will always have that little doubt in your mind (with periodic reminders any time you have an outbreak of the little bonus she brought into your life).

One thing that confuses me is how she can turn on and off her feelings. First she turned them off for you within a few weeks of being gone. Then she went full speed for the other guy and was going to marry him all within two weeks (probably was with him longer than two weeks). Then she is over him and now in a matter of days she is all into you.

Sounds a little flakey to me.

Except, does she know why she did this, can she explain it to you. Can she explain how she knows she will never do this again.

One thing that confuses me is how she can turn on and off her feelings.

She can't explain it any more than I can. I don't really expect to ever have a satisfying answer. It was inexplicable, impossible, but it still happened somehow.

She says that, now that she has snapped out of it, she's horrified by what she did too. "I don't recognize myself in the mirror" kind of stuff. It really was so, so contrary to the image that she presented for her whole life up to this point.

I've asked her, in various ways, "how could you?" How could she do it the first time? How could she do it a second time? How, after I told her I had plans to propose? How, after she had decided to tell me about it? The best she can offer is that she was "confused", that she avoided thinking about it, that it felt good, that she had all sorts of stupid rationalizations that she knew were stupid even at the time. She knows those answers aren't satisfying. But there aren't any better ones.

I feel more and more like I need to make a decision soon. Either I need to allow myself to believe her, accept "she's doing everything right" as good enough, and give reconciliation a chance, or else I need to break up with her, connect with my wider support network, and start moving on.

My friend, I have been reading all of this and kept silent until now, but what is there to believe or not believe. You know exactly what happened. And what is doing everything right?????

Why wouldn't she do everything right. She sure ain;t going to go back and marry "herpes" man and live with her hotel front desk employee. So that leaves her no alternative but to patch it up with you, and unless she is stupid, she knows she has to "do everything right".

I do not know how you get through the part that she talked to you on the phone every night, got off the phone and then fucked his brains out, knowing you had a ring and that you were planning to propose.

Buddy, if she had not gotten Herpes, you probably would have never found out.

You are young, and my guess to tell you the truth is that you are going to rug sweep this and take her back. That is your call.

just remember, before you do that that i believe 90% of the people here have told you to run at warp speed.These people do not know one another but ALL of them have been betrayed like you in some way. So at best you are certainly swimming upstream.

And lastly, my opinion for what it is worth is that your therapist should be locked up in a looney bin for the ridiculous advice and rationalization you have been given. basically, that what she did was OK because you were apart and she was lonely..

her not having a clue as to what you are thinking??? All I can say to that one is did she give you a clue where she was going when she told you good night and then proceeded to her nightly sexcapade. you owe her NOTHING but a swift kick in the ass.

I've asked her, in various ways, "how could you?" How could she do it the first time? How could she do it a second time? How, after I told her I had plans to propose? How, after she had decided to tell me about it? The best she can offer is that she was "confused", that she avoided thinking about it, that it felt good, that she had all sorts of stupid rationalizations that she knew were stupid even at the time.

friend - those answers aren't good enough. And did you ask her about pregnancy and why she didn't use protection?

I'm sorry. But how can you possibly live with her, and yourself, knowing that she's only come up with "i was confused, it felt good, i rationalized," etc.?

She has given you the height of disrespect.

Honestly? I really don't like to give advice about what actually someone should do. but her answers are pathetic. She needs to find out why. and give something, anything to you.

You need to break up with her for a while. Like a month or two. If it's meant to be, then it's meant to be. She will have worked on herself and found her answers.

If it's not meant to be, she will have found a new boyfriend. And you will know that you dodged a bullet.

I'm sorry. I really am.

[This message edited by mike7 at 6:22 PM, April 26th (Tuesday)]

Oh, it's NOT inexplicable. Pop into the Wayward section for a bit. All over there, there are Waywards looking inside themselves to discover the why's of their choices. It is a deeply personal and painful journey, often taking years.

There's a saying around here. *Own your shit*. How is your GF owning hers? Is she in IC? Has she read " how to heal your spouse from an affair?"

Are you willing to spend the next five years waiting while she learns how to own her own choices?

I have to say, the fact that she did this out of the blue and completely out of character for her is actually scary, not a point in her favor. It's as if your sweet family dog just up and ripped someone's face off! The unpredictability of it is one of the worst things. Now you know that she is capable of cutting you deeply, with no warning and no real explanation. Since she's not sure why she did it, it could very well happen again.

It's really intimidating to think about starting over with someone new (or being alone after years of being in a couple). Sometimes we think that it's easier to stay put and try to fix things because it's what we have always known and therefore it gives us a sense of security. At least, that's why I stayed so long, futilely bailing out a sinking ship.

I get it. You want the old her back. You want the old relationship dynamic back. But it's all gone. At this point you're starting from scratch anyway - IMO you might as well start over with someone that hasn't ever crushed your soul.

Now having said all this, I am painfully aware that everyone has their own timeline. If I'd found this place when I was first going through hell, I would have balked at the suggestions to leave too. Just know that you don't in fact have to make a decision right now. I know you feel like you NEED to, to choose a direction, but that's just because you want to stop feeling this awful freefalling sensation, this limbo. You want at least one bit of power back - the power to pick your own path. Trust me, I understand. No matter how this goes though, it will still take a toll.

We're here if you need us, no matter what happens.

If I'd found this place when I was first going through hell, I would have balked at the suggestions to leave too.

I'm not balking. I just need to hear it all. Thank you. Keep it coming.