SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I should add that I am feeling more and more like I won't be able to recover from this and will have to end the marriage. There is also a part of me that still thinks there is a chance.

I get this sense of relief come over me when I think of ending the marriage.

It's good to hear you are finally setting your boundaries. I understand how you swing between staying and leaving. That is really par for the course. That is the emotional roller coaster. You love her one second and you can't stand the sight of her the next. Work through this phase. I heard it said somewhere you must feel to heal, and I think that is true. You do not have to make a decision right now. Best to wait until you are in an emotionally and mentally stronger position to decide. Use this time to watch to see if her words and actions align. Is he in IC?

My only caution for you is stop paying attention to her words. Pay attention to her actions. For example, she says she is willing to do anything and she said she would get rid of all the trigger inducing clothes. Has that happened yet? If she has had a reasonable amount of time to get it done but hasn't done it yet, why the delay? If I cheated on my spouse and couldn't remember what clothes I was wearing, and she asked me to get rid of them, I would clear out my closet as soon as I could. You see, these are the easy things to do, and if she is dragging her feet over the easy things, getting the hard things done will be even harder.

If I were you I would do two things. First get a vasectomy and then do ALL the things she did with the AP. I mean all of them. If she wants to experiment then experiment. Reclaim your wife. I figure this is reclaiming your wife on your terms. I know you are having trouble with the mind movies and this may sound wrong to some, and probably to most, but sexually reclaiming your wife may help you. The thing about sex is that no matter how much sex you have, in the end you still have the same amount left. Your wife and the AP didn't take anything physically from you. What they took was your trust, in her and probably everyone else. They took away how you see your wife as a person. They took away the bond between you and her. She smashed the vows and promises you had made to each other. They stomped on your emotions and screwed with your mind. They took your world and turned it upside down. She took your heart, stomped on it and then kicked it across the room. Take your world back and take it back on your terms. There are some things you can only win by being an Alpha male. So be one. Reclaim your wife. Afterwards you may still decide to divorce but it may also help if you decide to R. If you want to R then do it on your terms. You have to believe you are just as good a man as he is because you are and even better. As far as doing something to bring consequences to the AP; put some thought and research into it. Even if he is rich, someone as crass, unprincipled, low life and uncaring as he is has many weak points and a lot he is hiding that he doesn't want revealed. Take some time and find out what they are. Try a new hobby; "Finding Out What The Low Life Don't Want People To Know" hobby. The most important thing right now is if this situation was a poker game you would be holding a "royal flush". You control it all. Play your hand. I wish you well.

I kinda disagree with anold

First of all your wife is not a possession. She can't be reclaimed or even claimed, she's a human with a common sense and logic. Thinking about your wife that way is basically both underestimating her by calling her an object, something inferior and it will also in a way "excuse" her behavior.... why? She's a woman, she didn't know any better, actually she did and she is and does know better she just did not care for her husband at all.

Second, if you get a vasectomy and literally F*ck your own way into her, you will basically will be doing the "pick me dance". I really recommend you do not do this because trust me you will not feel better at all. Why? Because if it does initially work you will always have that little voice in the back of your head saying "If I'm not the best when it comes to sex, she will cheat" and you will basically be giving your wife a trump card, because that means that in the future if she ever screws up all she has to do is open her legs and all will be fine (the whole reason why you are in this situation is because she couldn't close her legs).

[This message edited by weaponofchaos at 2:17 AM, June 24th (Friday)]

I think you are starting to reach the point where you are focusing on what is acceptable and what is not acceptable in the marriage. Reconciling is extremely difficult and lengthy. I did not divorce, but I know many people well enough who were divorced, and it is very hard and long, too. This is a process. How much of the following do you have in place so far:

1. Wife tested for STDs and showed you result

2. Gave up all passwords to devices and accounts

3. Wife changes phone number and email accounts and deletes social media if you ask

4. Wife understands no deleting ever, even browsing history and no browser secret mode

5. Wife writes no contact letter to other man and gives you for mailing

6. Wife writes no contact letter to toxic cheer leader friend

7. Wife gives you sweat shirts for you to throw out

Must your wife deal with other man and cheer leader friend at her work?

I agree, it is a sense of relief when you realize that you can leave whenever you want. That always has been true of you and your wife. Despite the wedding vows and your morals (and her lack of faithfulness and honesty), you both could have left this marriage at any time you wanted. You both must be in a marriage that is both acceptable to you. If what is acceptable to you and it is not acceptable to her, then it will not work. And vice versa. However, given that she has breached the legal contract, she should be making it up to you in order for you not to leave. If I did something wrong to hurt my wife, heck, even if I accidentally broke a dinner plate, I would apologize to my wife and try to make it up to her. And this is much more than an accidental hurt from her to you.

I don't think this is something you can decide upon quickly. You don't know how you will feel for a while and likely will vacillate. It is called the "roller coaster." She will be on it, too.

You have faults and you should improve your legitimate faults.

I get this sense of relief come over me when I think of ending the marriage.

Because you are starting to understand that you have options. In the beginning, the betrayed often feel trapped...with no way out. But as you start to process and accept some of the new realities, you can start to take action.

Remember, if you ever wish to TRULY reconcile, then you have to get to the mental state that you are willing to leave your marriage. And not just accept this, but FEEL IT through and through. Because once you reach this point, if you choose to attempt reconciliation, you are doing so because you WANT to. Fear is no longer a motivating factor in your decisions.

You are heading in the right direction. Hopefully, your wife is also. It is in a situation like this where the old saying around here of not making any rash decision for the first six months makes a lot of sense. If both partners are heading in the right direction(or so it seems), then time is on your side. The two of you are making progress. There is still so much to process and observe. In a sense, the dust is still settling. So, being that you are dealing with a very confused, but evolving partner, you have the choice....if you choose so....to let things continue along these lines.

Or maybe over some more time, you will come to realize that you do need to end this marriage. But either way, you have options now that you may not have really felt before.

I think it makes perfect sense to expect your wife to want do the things with you that she did with the other person. If not, why? Gain your confidence back. If she wants to experiment sexually and you and her are consensual about it, go for it. If she won't let you do the things she wanted to do with the AP that's not a good sign, is it? I don't think that he anything to do with the "pick me dance" that is just seeing if you can reconnect physically. Doesn't need to be a lovemaking contest vs. the AP.

When this happened to me, I completely did a 180 (including sex.) I never slept with her again, and we were divorced in six months. How she acts over the next few months will be critical. When I didn't see remourse and instead saw Blane shifting, I checked out and don't regret it for a minute.

Congratulations on taking some positive steps for yourself. You have to keep in mind the only way you can work towards what you want, if it is R or D, it to know what you want and plan for it. That is exactly what you did and that is a huge step.

Sounds like you are seeing that you can go on either way and that is important.

Also good job on communicating how her actions affect you. Keep this up. It will help you either way things go.

How is the roller coaster, bedman?

Did your wife get the book yet?

I am sorry but from what you have told it really doesn't bode well. She is obviously still attracted to the AP and she is only ending things because you finally got the courage to put her out of the door. After five months of doing as she pleased, you asking her to move out must have been a massive shock to the system! But to repent out of fear to lose everything is not enough. Remorse must be genuine and come from within. I don't believe in ultimatums, especially in the affairs of the heart. They work at first but, in the long run, they create or intensify the need for transgression. As hard as it sounds, a WS has to be 'allowed' to go though the motions and eventually, hopefully, sober up and come to their senses. The BS can't do it for them, and no amount of persuasion will make the process any quicker. I talk from experience. I also kicked my husband out after discovering his affair (caught him having phone sex with lover whilst on our family vacation) and took him back a week later when he couldn't cope living at his mum's and missed us so very much. He lasted three weeks. He looked anguished and seemed constantly somewhere else. In the end, he couldn't stand it any longer and legged it. When they come back for the wrong reasons, i.e. guilt, need for security, habit, and NOT because they love and miss YOU, the outcome is almost always bad. If I were you, I would ask to separate and see if her regret stretches for longer than a lonely night in a hotel. I know it is hard because you love her, but both you and her need to be sure that the foundations of your relationship are still solid and can withhold the inevitable strain that comes with infidelity. Patching things up won't do, working on the foundations will. And that takes time.

[This message edited by Karmafan at 1:50 PM, July 2nd (Saturday)]

June 14 is when my recovery started not May 9. Between May 9 and June 14 things became worse as I realized my wifes state of mind (still in the fog) and I discovered more of the details. I am greatful my wife has come out of the fog. I am now discovering how ungrateful I am for knowing the details. My wife wrote me a wonderful apology letter and read it to me last night. I sobbed like I hadn't done in weeks. Before she read the letter to me we attempted to watch the Amy Schuler movie 'Trainwreck'. There were so many triggers in the first 15 minutes I had to turn it off. Amy is assigned the task of finding out if eating garlic changes the taste of a man's semen. My wife's AP liked pineapple juice and she had bought him some as a gift and they joked that it made his semen taste sweeter. Amy is having sex with her boyfriend in another scene and he is this muscle bound male and she asks him to speak dirty to her. My wife's AP is in great shape (according to my wife) and she had told me she was attracted to how muscular he was in the upper body and how he use to talk all the time during sex and whIle she gave him BJs. There were 3 other major triggers and my anxiety and panic levels were at extreme levels. We turned the movie off.

I know things will get better one way or another. That these triggers will fade to sone degree. Being with my wife magnifies these triggers? This is the problem when reconciling I am begining to believe. That your WS is a trigger by being present and the more you know the more things triggers images and memories. Will ending the relationship set you free or fast track you towards having these triggers and memories fade? It's obviously not this simple. We have 3 children together and she will always be present in my life. I think about her not being around and I feel relief from the anxiety and panic. I know it's not that simple but man this anxiety is debilitating.

its not weak to go to a dr and get anti depressants. they help alot for awhile.

Okay. A letter. What is your wife doing to help you heal ? Has she read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" yet?

You are in for a marathon of recovery bedman. It is going to take 2 to 5 years if all healing conditions are perfect to heal and reconcile.

Promise me... No rug-sweeping, okay?

[This message edited by CanoeVA at 4:06 PM, July 6th (Wednesday)]

I gave her the book this morning. It took a number of weeks to arrive in the mail. No contact email was sent earlier this week. No response from AP. This is how it read:

Hi,

So there is no misunderstanding, you are not to contact me again. I'm not sure what I was doing given how much I truly value my family. If by chance we run into each other, please ignore my presence as I will be doing the same .

My wifes name

I particularily like the Hi, where his name was deliberately left out. Yes I suggested that part. My wife supported it.

For sake of anonymity some specific details of my wifes work have not been clarified. She does not have to deal with AP at work but does come into contact with the OBS and cheerleading friend in passing while at work. She's had short conversation with friend but jot OBS. Sweatshirts have been disposed of from what I can tell.

I blew a fuse last week thinking that about how my wife had gone to our local gym with the AP at the beginning of the affair and had introduced him to some of her friends. Nothing sexual had occured at this point according to her. Yes she lied to me about this 2 and half hour gym session on Dec 26. They had also met at starbucks Dec 24. Their first sexual encounter happened dec 27. I am really not looking forward to Christmas.

Before she read the letter to me we attempted to watch the Amy Schuler movie 'Trainwreck'.

WHY, would you ever watch a movie like that?

Your wife wrote you a letter, wow, BFD. What else has she done to help you heal?

Tell her to write out a time line,

Tell her to explain why she did things with the OM that she never did with you.

You know, it is time she stops with the apologies and starts being honest as to the why and how could she.

At the gym nothing sexual happened according to her, really, ask your wife to prove it, take a polygraph.

And why didn't YOU dispose of the sweatshirts, take control.

No more going to the gym, period, she can work out at home.

Yeah the movie was my choice. Yes it was a bad choice.

She's told me that when he cummed in her face that they were having sex and he said he had a fantasy of coming in her face and asked if he could do that? My wife said she said yes because she wanted to please the AP and he asked right before he was about to cum. As for the BJ's and other stuff she's explained that she was looking to please him and that she feels horrible that she did these things with him. That when he cummed in her mouth he again asked if he could and she said yes to please him. She spat it out afterwards.

I have no reason to think she is lying about what happened in the affair. Other than she has lied more recently she's answering all the questions.

I gave her the book this morning. It took a number of weeks to arrive in the mail. No contact email was sent earlier this week. No response from AP. This is how it read:

Hi,

So there is no misunderstanding, you are not to contact me again. I'm not sure what I was doing given how much I truly value my family. If by chance we run into each other, please ignore my presence as I will be doing the same .

My wifes name

I particularily like the Hi, where his name was deliberately left out. Yes I suggested that part. My wife supported it.

For sake of anonymity some specific details of my wifes work have not been clarified. She does not have to deal with AP at work but does come into contact with the OBS and cheerleading friend in passing while at work. She's had short conversation with friend but jot OBS. Sweatshirts have been disposed of from what I can tell.

I blew a fuse last week thinking that about how my wife had gone to our local gym with the AP at the beginning of the affair and had introduced him to some of her friends. Nothing sexual had occured at this point according to her. Yes she lied to me about this 2 and half hour gym session on Dec 26. They had also met at starbucks Dec 24. Their first sexual encounter happened dec 27. I am really not looking forward to Christmas

You're doing a lot better than it probably seems. This is good!

Man O Man O Man

I couldn't stomach the thought of my WW fucking the OM and filed for D as soon as I had proof. But too actually know all that she did the positions the sex acts the things she would never do in our bed I had no wish to know about.

Even if I could have found someway to forgive the A the TMI would have been the straw that broke the camels back. Good luck my man I think your going to need it.

You've asked what else your wife could do to rebuild the relationship and earn back your trust. The answer is a lot! Below is a list of what my wife did. My wife was a SAHM. She dedicated the first 6 months after Dday to recovery. To the extent practical, she quit social things, hobbies, etc. to "do the work."

Give your wife a list of what you want or ask her to make one. See how hard she attacks it. 2-3 months from now you will know if she is serious about reconciliation or if her professed desire to make things right is just bullshit.

Strength to you.

=====================

- IC 2x/week

- MC 1x/week

- Group therapy 1x/week (this is a formal program with a leader, workbooks, homework, etc. She gotten enormous value out of this program. She wouldn't be where she is today if she hadn't found this course. Message me if you want the name.)

- email chains/exchanges with group members

- Journaling

- complete transparency of all electronic devices

- reading Linda McDonald, "How to Help Your Spouse..." and putting it into action

- reading "Not Just Friends" and putting it into action

- wrote out a full timeline of the affair with as much detail as I requested

- answered all of my questions without fail and without hesitation

- informed me of any attempts the AP makes to contact her

- digging hard to understand her brokenness. Going back to FOO issues, examining her relationship with me, etc.

- digging into to her sexual dysfunction--her hardest, most difficult to address area

- working her damnedest every day to put into place the lessons she is learning. Things like understanding selfishness, how to be a giving lover, how to give and not expect something in return, how to be a better mother for our children

Will ending the relationship set you free or fast track you towards having these triggers and memories fade? It's obviously not this simple

Actually it is that simple. I filed for D, and stopped triggering completely in 3 months because she was not in the same house, table, bedroom, events, yard, concert, restaurant, picnic with me. I found it easy to forgive her and forget her transgressions because she paid dearly for her mistake by losing me, her devoted husband of 12 years.

We have 3 children together and she will always be present in my life.

Yes, but not being constantly around her will do wonders for your healing and recovery. And it will make it easier for you to stay friends with her.

I think about her not being around and I feel relief from the anxiety and panic. I know it's not that simple but man this anxiety is debilitating.

Again, having done exactly that, I can confirm that it is that simple.

[This message edited by redbaron007 at 2:08 AM, July 7th (Thursday)]