SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thanks for the clarification, Ramius 😁! It's easy to jump all over others when you are going through this shitstorm (meaning myself and not you). Looking forward to your posts.

Toopol, take things slow, remember it's a marathon not a sprint.

all advice to the side, are you actually done? are you going to meet with her in person one more time? Or are you going to avoid her? what does your gut tell you?

It seems weird to just not see each other face to face after her business trip. I mean, when she left you were both committed to try, and now it's over, without even seeing each other. I know that a lot of people here would advise you to definitely NOT see her again, etc. And that may well be the right advice.

without any judgment or advice, I'm curious what your intention is. after all, it's your life. whatever you do, good luck.

all advice to the side, are you actually done? are you going to meet with her in person one more time? Or are you going to avoid her? what does your gut tell you?

I'm going to avoid her in the short term, but in all likelihood I will see her again at some point. Not for a conversation about the relationship (I've got plenty of closure already) but just in passing. It seems possible that such a meeting will be too painful or awkward or whatever, but it also seems possible that it could be okay, and I don't want to just assume the worst. So I expect that we'll eventually get invited to the same party, and we'll see each other, and I'll use that experience to judge whether I have to avoid her more strictly after that.

I haven't read all three-zillion posts regarding the horrible way your fiance/ex-girlfriend betrayed you, but I have read enough to offer this perspective:

It is the future, say three or four or eleven years from now, and you meet the "one." You are into the "getting-to-know-you" phase, and as most new couples do, you are discussing past relationships and exes. I know if I were the "one" in that scenario, the last thing I want to hear is that you really, REALLY tried to remain friends with this ex. I don't care if you have a little golden memory here and there of your exes: we all do. What I don't want to hear is that you have left that door open, not even a crack. You are not safe for me at that point. Capiche?

I am the BS of a WS who thought the ex was a safe "friend"(after all, we had been together over 15 years), only to discover that some of the old wiring was still intact. In my book exes should never be part of your future with a new partner. I am so disgusted that my WS's ex was allowed back into our lives that I have days that the betrayal truly feels unforgivable.

What makes it especially egregious is when the ex is one who has left a wake of destruction. As I said, the "one," when you do finally meet, will likely not find that detail very endearing. And she shouldn't. Would you move forward with someone who could not seem to shake, or had some unexplanable ties to, an old flame?

After feeling surprisingly good for the first two weeks post-breakup, I started to feel shitty again tonight. Just a little bit.

I made the mistake of looking at her facebook page. I think she blocked me from seeing most of it (some recent posts had disappeared), but she had updated her profile picture and I could see all the likes and comments. She had all sorts of support. One person told her that she had showed real dedication by participating in an event "so soon after the trip you had". She had dozens of people telling her how gorgeous she was. And among them was the OM, who told her how pretty she looked, and she liked his comment. I guess they're facebook friends again. It makes me wonder if she had seen him again before coming home, even after "officially breaking up" with him. Not that I should care. She was single as far as I was concerned, right?

Meanwhile, I'm alone in a hotel room again, feeling inferior. (But, rationally speaking, this is just silly self-pity. I saw a bunch of friends this week, and there are a dozen more who've offered to talk or hang out. I could have stayed with one of them if I had asked.)

Just over a week ago, she was begging me to give her another chance and telling me over and over again how much she loved me. In response, I just told her to leave me alone. High and mighty. Now that she really has left me alone, I can finally move on, but I've lost the temporary ego boost, and I feel fragile.

In the last few days, I've felt okay emotionally, but I've had odd physical symptoms. I've been waking up earlier than usual. I've had weird pains in my neck and chest. I wonder: maybe I'm not fine? Maybe my body knows something my brain does not? Or, maybe it's just the fault of jet lag and cheap mattresses.

Ramble ramble.

I saw the new therapist today. She specializes in infidelity issues, and she's very pro-reconciliation. She didn't pressure me or anything, but she asked me if I thought that my XGF was sincere in her most recent grasp at reconciliation (I did, but that doesn't make it trustworthy), and she asked me to explain why I didn't want to give my XGF another chance. I wish it were patently obvious, but it feels like the consistent perspective among therapists is "shit happens, but you can always make it work". I gave a short answer, but later I wrote a much longer answer in my journal, listing all the reasons why I was right to leave. It made me feel more secure, but I'm the kind of person who always feels guilty in not giving someone the benefit of the doubt. Maybe this time she'll really turn a new leaf. Everyone deserves another chance, right? No one is beyond redemption, right? Whatever. It's not like I gave her the death sentence. She can get another chance with another guy. In the meantime, she's a terrible bet for me. Giving her the benefit of the doubt would be the definition of insanity. I don't even miss her; I just miss having a girlfriend.

My XGF didn't get much attention from guys when she was younger, but she started to get it more and more in the last few years. She became more attractive and more fashionable and more sexual (but until recently, only I got to see the latter). Then our relationship ended with her receiving and reciprocating "love" from another guy. Meanwhile, I've put on a ton of weight in the last few months, and I've never felt less attractive than I do now. And aside from the relationship with my XGF, I haven't dated since high school. I never had any others girls show the slightest interest in me in the past 7 years. When I think about finding someone to love in the future, it feels like an immature fantasy.

It is the future, say three or four or eleven years from now, and you meet the "one." You are into the "getting-to-know-you" phase, and as most new couples do, you are discussing past relationships and exes. I know if I were the "one" in that scenario, the last thing I want to hear is that you really, REALLY tried to remain friends with this ex. I don't care if you have a little golden memory here and there of your exes: we all do. What I don't want to hear is that you have left that door open, not even a crack. You are not safe for me at that point. Capiche?

Maybe it's time for me to block her on facebook and give up on the idea of being friends with her. Until further notice, at least.

Hey Toopol. I am the last person in the world to be able to offer any kind of advice, especially at a point like this. However, I just wanted to say that I have been following your threads with genuine interest and I have learnt so much from you. You show an incredible and honest insight into your own experiences and I really admire your courage and perseverance. I have no doubt that you are going to go from this and thrive without any regrets and an assurance that you make the best decision. You have my utmost respect.

Toopol, I think you are correct.

It's probably a good idea to block her from your thoughts altogether. As best as you can.

Thoughts of her are bringing you down.

Making you feel inferior?!?!

Are you kidding me?

A liar and a cheater is the inferior one.

It is time to focus on a healthier you for the future. Physical exercise. Healthier food in the right amounts.

As far as this counselor is concerned.

I think you need to make it clear that you have broken up with your SO. Your healing from infidelity should be focused on your future, how you will become whole and self assured. How you will become a healthy partner for someone in the future. And, how you will be whole on your own.

Ok, I'm getting a little preachy.

Just say, "yes, mother dear. I hear you."

Toopol, you are a kind, smart, funny person.

Start loving you and forgetting about her.

Sending you a hug.

Ok, from this....

She had dozens of people telling her how gorgeous she was. And among them was the OM, who told her how pretty she looked, and she liked his comment. I guess they're facebook friends again. It makes me wonder if she had seen him again before coming home, even after "officially breaking up" with him.

Now this ...

she asked me if I thought that my XGF was sincere in her most recent grasp at reconciliation (I did, but that doesn't make it trustworthy), and she asked me to explain why I didn't want to give my XGF another chance.

How about because she is and continues to be a liar. What happened to NC and how she'd never give up on winning you back? She has learnt nothing from this episode except how to play the victim to gain more ego kibbles.

Stay the course, you did the right thing.

I have been reading your thread.

First of all I want to apologize with you because I came hard on you when I wrote to you. I wanted to give you a wake up call, but I see that I went too far. My sincere apologies.

Second, your XGF looks like avery disturbed person. At some moments she looked like a bunnyboiler. You are much better without her. She lied to you and for all you know, she might be still lying. She contacted the OP again. I guess he was Plan B all the time. That's how her minds works. But she is not your business anymore.

Third, It's normal to still want to feel connected to the person you spent so much time with. But spying on her through facebook just brings up old feelings and doesn't allow you to move on from the relationship. Keeping up with what she is doing will only cause you more pain.

It's best to just try your best to let go It just makes the breakup more difficult for you. If you don't give yourself a break from this, it will be much harder to get over the break-up. The best thing you can do for you to heal is to go 'no-contact.

Ask your friends not to discuss your ex with you, remove/block any notifications from them, block yourself from being able to look at their online life.

Breakups are really tough for everyone, but they can also be the most perfect and beautiful excuse to be a little selfish and just focus on you and what makes you happy. Take advantage of this wonderful opportunity and you'll be surprised at how much you can love yourself when you learn how great you can be.

[This message edited by Esteban at 7:33 AM, June 30th (Thursday)]

You already know this, but looking at her facebook page has no positive benefits for you. It's pain shopping.

Block yourself from her tacebook page.

Hey Toopol,

Sorry you are hurting. But of course, it's normal. You've ended a long term relationship. How could you not feel a sense of loss?

First off, don't believe what you see on Facebook. For example, I had a friend that went on vacation. Posted all sort's of happy pictures and sentiments. When he came back I said, it looks like you and your wife are doing great. He said don't believe what you see on Facebook, it's all show. They've been talking about divorce ever since.

Of course her friends are going to be offering her consolement. Why? She's told them she's hurting. I'm surprised that the bellhop is back as a Facebook friend. But that tells you more about her doesn't it. Let her have her fun, her friends. Unless she's extremely shallow, she's hurting. She knows what she did. In addition, some women have the view, the best way to get over someone is to get under someone. I believe I told you about this. I told you she could take one of two paths. One is to find another boyfriend quickly and rugsweep what she's done. The other is take her time, get counseling, figure out why she's the type of person to betray people. It may be too soon to tell, but it looks like she took the former path. Less work, more ego kibbles.

But that shouldn't be your issue. Work on you! Get busy. Staying at home alone moping is a guaranteed path to unhappiness. You've gained weight? Workout. Join a gym. Improve your diet. Get in the best shape you've ever been. Grow your business. Make more money. When you're at the gym, exercising, running, doing things you enjoy, you will meet someone. It just happens. The key is, become the best Toopol you can be. Everything else will fall into place.

However, stop trolling Facebook. Maybe you should cancel it altogether? Studies show that the more time people spend on facebook the less happy they are. Because they're watching other people out having fun. That's looking backwards and will focus all your energy on what you've lost. You need to focus on the future.

exercise, improve your diet, improve your business, everything else will fall into place.

good luck friend.

[This message edited by mike7 at 9:21 AM, June 30th (Thursday)]

I think nme1 has it right. This only shows you she lied to you the whole time and never was committed to you. I know that it hard to hear and to really deal with but it is the truth. She just was playing all her options and she didn't really care if you were hurt or not. I would block her and never talk to her again. She is not the person you thought she was. She is a cheater and a liar and there is nothing that will change that. The less you see of her and interact of her the better off you are.

C

Okay, I blocked her Facebook page entirely.

I'm keeping busy during the days, mostly spending my time apartment-hunting (for the first time, really) and trying to catch up on work. In the evenings I tend to get mopey, but not usually as bad as last night.

A few times, I've gone and listened to her final voicemails and such. Oddly enough, that makes me feel better about leaving her. Firstly because it makes it clear that it was MY choice to end things, and secondly because she says a bunch of kinda-self-centered things that rub me the wrong way. Still, I'm playing with fire there. Pain shopping might be the accurate term.

What happened to NC and how she'd never give up on winning you back?

Yeah. One of the last things she wrote to me: “I have definitively cut off all communication with him and I know my mind will not go back on that decision.” In light of this, it's silly that seeing a bit of Facebook interaction bothers me, but I hope this means that she's truly given up on changing my mind.

Keep focusing on yourself and your business. You are going to have to fight the urge to think about her, so the steps you are taking are really good.

So much has changed in so little time for you. Unlike those who are married and have to go through the process of settlement agreements and legal proceedings, you were able to make a clean, swift break. I'm really glad for you for this (not for your pain, though). You are an awesome guy, you are going to have a fantastic life if you continue to make choices that prioritize your happiness and safety.

Thanks, Shattereddd. I'm keeping busy with the apartment hunt, and it has me fantasizing about how great my post-breakup life will be. I'm doing okay!

There were a few things about my XGF's affair that occurred to me recently. At this point, I'm mostly just journaling in public as I process what happened; I'm not in any dire need of advice or support. No need to keep reading unless you're curious. :)

- According to her story, it was when she broke up with me that she finally, suddenly realized that I was the right man for her. But apparently, when she had this realization, all that she told the OM was that she was "struggling with the decision" to break up with me. She claims that she had an epiphany and that she finally figured it out, but she still left the door open with him. Huh.

- She claims that, immediately after breaking up with me, she had a horrible knot in her stomach for the rest of the day until she finally called me to undo it. What's interesting is that she didn't have that knot in her stomach for the 10 days when she carried on the second affair. That is, she didn't feel so bad about betraying me. She only felt it when she lost something.

- Her rationalization for the second affair was that she was "confused" and didn't know what she wanted, and that seeing him would be the quickest way to figure that out. A) Considering that she'd already experienced the first affair, I don't see how doing it a second time would bring forth any new information. I think she just wanted to feel good and made up stupid rationalizations, just like the first time. B) In reality, seeing him again just led her to eventually break up with me, which she instantly regretted. So really it just confused her more.

- She later confessed that she had intended to keep the second affair a secret from me forever, and that "I thought it would be OK to keep that a secret from you because the affair would truly be over and I would truly know that I wanted you." So the lesson she learned from the first affair is that it's better if I never know about it. She always claimed honesty as one of her core defining values, and used that fact to explain why she confessed to the first affair, but it clearly became expendable at some point.

- After the first affair, she claimed that she wanted to stay with me and that she would support me as our relationship healed. However, when she needed support herself (and I was in bad shape to provide it), she wasn't willing to talk to any friends or family because she feared that they would judge her, even though it would have helped me. When her company asked her to go back for a second trip, she didn't want to say no because it would be a big inconvenience, even though it would have made things easier on me. Later, she decided not to confess her latest betrayals to me, even though that would have been necessary for a true reconciliation. I really do believe that she wanted to stay together with me. But what's now clear is that she was still prioritizing herself over me. She wanted to keep our relationship, but she wanted everything else too, and so she lost me in the process.

Selfish and greedy. Greedy and selfish.

The only reason she confessed the first affair to you was because she got the STD from Bellhop Boy and knew she'd eventually give it to you as well, so she came clean. Core defining value, my ass. She was going to keep that secret from you just like she would do the same with the second affair.

Conclusion? She's a serial liar and cheater, and she's going to cheat again in the future.

The commenters here tried to warn you to dump her, but in trying to logically analyze the situation by playing devil's advocate, what you were doing was rationalizing why you should reconcile with her. We all saw through your devil's advocate approach, and had she not dumped you, you'd have reconciled with her.

Just be thankful that you dodged a huge bullet here. Huge!

You look like a wiser person now.

Processing what happened is a good way of taking her out of your system. Just don't over analize everything that happened. Start to look ahead instead of looking back.

Take with you the lessons you learned. Think not only about her actions (after all she is a lier a cheater and a selfish person and everything that happened has to do with that) but THINK ALSO ABOUT YOURSELF. You were ready to belive her lies at first. You were heading to reconciliation. SI wisdom opened your eyes (remember your "I told you so" post?) Try to do some soul searching about yourself too. Learn about yourself not to do the same mistake again.

You will definetly get over her when you find a new love in your life. I pray you chose better the next time.

[This message edited by Esteban at 7:42 AM, July 2nd (Saturday)]

Esteban is right. Journaling is great. Reminding yourself of all the ways she was insincere and dishonest can help solidify your reasons for calling it quits. Brings closure.

You are a thoughtful guy. You still want to makes sense of it all. Hell, I'm still trying to figure out the mental aspects my WW's behavior from years ago. But over-analyzing what she was thinking and doing can be counter-productive. Truth is she wasn't thinking about this nearly as much as you give her credit for. She was simply acting impulsively. Not much thought went into those choices and actions. Most of the effort went into secrets and lies.

I agree with Lionshare. Her thought process was probably quite simple i.e. what do I need? what do I want? what do i need to do to get what I need and want?

It's encouraging to see how well you are doing, Toopol!

I'd like to make a suggestion if you don't mind. You say the nights are tough at times even though overall you seem to be doing extremely well. Also, you note that you've put on weight in the past few months and aren't feeling very attractive. Why not attack both problems at once? Start working out at night. Give your evenings a purpose, to lose the unwanted weight you've gained. It doesn't have to be anything complicated. Maybe just buy a pair of running shoes and get out and run in the evenings, building up endurance and getting rid of the weight. Hate running? Good. That will build character...lol. Or, go to a gym and work out there.

I think if you start an exercise regime in the evenings it will improve your life in just about every way. Force yourself if you have to. The great thing is you start to see results very quickly, which provides motivation to keep going.