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Just Found Out :
I feel as guilty as she is

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nekonamida ( member #42956) posted at 6:34 PM on Thursday, August 4th, 2016

Morris, I agree. I was also just by chance thinking about how codependency is almost always framed as a problem women have like the book "Women Who Love Too Much" when just as many men deal with being codependent too.

That said, Wittold, I think your decision to separate and really think hard about if the M can even come back from this on your end is a very healthy idea. Continue to find support and guidance with your new friend.

posts: 5232   ·   registered: Mar. 31st, 2014   ·   location: United States
id 7625131
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Tigersrule77 ( member #47339) posted at 4:08 AM on Friday, August 5th, 2016

Wittold glad you are doing better. Good to hear you are making friends. That is important to remember this doesn't define you. It is not who you are.

I went through a period where I felt everyone was feeling sorry for me and seeing "the guy who's wife cheated on him". It took a while to move out of that. Seems like you are doing a good job.

posts: 1593   ·   registered: Mar. 27th, 2015   ·   location: Maryland
id 7625537
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 Wittold (original poster member #53051) posted at 11:29 PM on Wednesday, August 10th, 2016

WW moved out on Sunday, and it's been really quiet. DD has been staying with her, helping with decorating and such and providing her with moral support (she still comes home daily, so we still have dinner together while WW is at her sessions). The first night sleeping back in my bedroom for the first time since 4/2 was strange. I don't think I got 2 hours of sleep, it was just too strange being alone in both my house and our marital bed. The second night was much better, and last night I slept fine (maybe because Krav Maga kicked my butt yesterday).

I'm not sure if I'm missing WW, but I am definitely more lonely than I was when she was staying here. I can't really tell if I'm missing her, or just missing companionship, but I found myself doing a drive by of her house on the way home from work today. Not done out of fear she was screwing around, just because...I don't know? I do know I didn't want to be seen by her, but I also did want to catch a glimpse of her? DD has been very good not to talk to me about WW, but I'm starting to get to the point where I want to ask DD about WW, which I DO NOT want to do. I'm afraid that would either build false hope for her, or if it gets ugly, could make her feel like she's stuck in the middle of her mother and I. The fact that I'm curious to the point of mild anxiety about what's going on in WW's life is making me think that maybe I do want to R in the future. It's obvious I still care about her, I'm just not sure if it's going to be a ILYBINILWY deal for me. I guess only time will tell.

WW told at least 2 of her friends our situation. One of her friends (whose H is probably my BF) sent me an email explaining that WW had told her the whole story, and that I needed to stop being a stranger to her husband. She said that nobody wanted to pick sides, and that both WW and myself were missed and that both of us would always be welcome in their house. She also stated that they would never invite both of us to any party/event without talking to both of us first, and wanted to know if I'd be OK with seeing WW at their house, specifically this Saturday for a BBQ for BF's birthday. I told her I was fine with seeing WW, but inside I have to admit my heart skipped a beat. I'm actually a bit excited to see her, but I can't pin down if it's just because I'm curious about what's going on in her life, or because I just want to spend time with her again. I still have zero desire to be sexual with her, so it's not that.

Tonight I'm going to meet BF for beers and brats at a local tavern and tell him the whole story. We've talked since DD, but I've never confided in him. He's asked to do things and I've come up with excuses not to because I didn't want to disclose until I knew what was going to happen. WW took that decision away from me and I have to admit that I'm glad she did as I definitely feel a burden has been lifted by him knowing, and my getting to talk to him tonight.

BS (me) 50 WS 45 M 1990
DS1 25, DS2 22, DD 16
False D-Day 10/2015 I was sent a vid, but the quality wasn't good enough to prove. She denied, I believed.
D-Day 4/1/2016 (and I was stupid enough to at first think it was an elaborate April Fools

posts: 124   ·   registered: May. 3rd, 2016   ·   location: West coast
id 7630809
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ivehadit01 ( member #54210) posted at 12:26 AM on Thursday, August 11th, 2016

We all miss them at first , part of it is just out of habit , it will take some time but you'll get over it.

posts: 569   ·   registered: Jul. 18th, 2016
id 7630866
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 Wittold (original poster member #53051) posted at 1:29 AM on Thursday, August 18th, 2016

I just spoke to WW on the phone and she told me her Psychiatrist has given her a referral to see a neurologist, that she thinks she might have some problems stemming from a car accident 15 years ago (ww fractured her skull on the dashboard while riding in the front seat of a taxi and was in a coma for 6 hours). I asked her point blank if she thinks this caused her to sleep around and she said "no, I did that". On the one hand I'm glad she's taking ownership, but on the other, just for the fleetingest moment, I felt extreme jubilation before she answered; like somehow, it was all explained and wasn't her fault and everything was going to go back to normal again. Then she answered and I now feel just like I did on day one. For a split second all that weight was gone, then it came crashing back.

BS (me) 50 WS 45 M 1990
DS1 25, DS2 22, DD 16
False D-Day 10/2015 I was sent a vid, but the quality wasn't good enough to prove. She denied, I believed.
D-Day 4/1/2016 (and I was stupid enough to at first think it was an elaborate April Fools

posts: 124   ·   registered: May. 3rd, 2016   ·   location: West coast
id 7637178
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PlanC ( member #47500) posted at 1:41 AM on Thursday, August 18th, 2016

Noticed any other impairments in mental executive function post accident?

BS 50; xWW. 4 children.
DD 1: April 2013, confessed ONS June 2012
DD 2: March 2014, confessed affair August 2012 through March 2013
DD 3: October 2015, involuntarily confessed 5 additional ONS starting August 2014 through November 2014 (manic)

posts: 2202   ·   registered: Apr. 10th, 2015
id 7637189
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craig2001 ( member #55) posted at 1:42 AM on Thursday, August 18th, 2016

Can you call the Psychiatrist and talk to him or her. Get the story straight. Sound like some blameshifting going on here. But at least she might be trying to take responsibility.

posts: 7391   ·   registered: Jun. 8th, 2002   ·   location: USA
id 7637191
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SpokenFor ( member #48401) posted at 1:43 AM on Thursday, August 18th, 2016

Hey, here's the thing: if you think your wife, healthy again, is someone you want a relationship with, then it is a good thing that she is kind of taking a survey to figure out anything she needs to address, physically or emotionally.

Yup, I get the desire to find a cause that is "not her fault", but it is good that she continues to own her fault and hopefully that means she keeps doing the work.

Best wishes, hope you are finding more peace simply by knowing that the process is moving along day by day.

posts: 162   ·   registered: Jun. 26th, 2015   ·   location: California
id 7637192
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longforgotten ( member #48997) posted at 1:55 AM on Thursday, August 18th, 2016

good luck moving forward.

[This message edited by longforgotten at 11:38 PM, August 17th (Wednesday)]

posts: 873   ·   registered: Aug. 16th, 2015   ·   location: West Virginia
id 7637198
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ivehadit01 ( member #54210) posted at 1:57 AM on Thursday, August 18th, 2016

I hope they don't find anything wrong with her , brain damage is no joke.

posts: 569   ·   registered: Jul. 18th, 2016
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 Wittold (original poster member #53051) posted at 6:12 PM on Thursday, August 18th, 2016

Noticed any other impairments in mental executive function post accident?

It's hard to say. Looking back I can say yes, her judgement (obviously) and maybe emotional control. That being said, neither was obvious in real time, only in hindsight.

Can you call the Psychiatrist and talk to him or her. Get the story straight. Sound like some blameshifting going on here. But at least she might be trying to take responsibility.

No blame shifting here, the subject of her accident came up and the psychiatrist asked if she'd seen a neurologist in her follow up, which she hadn't. Psychiatrist told her she should for safety sake, but that some of the medical problems she has (migraines/tinnitus) could stem from the accident and could possibly be addressed.

Hey, here's the thing: if you think your wife, healthy again, is someone you want a relationship with, then it is a good thing that she is kind of taking a survey to figure out anything she needs to address, physically or emotionally.

I'm still not sure I want a relationship with her, but I do want her to be mentally healthy.

BS (me) 50 WS 45 M 1990
DS1 25, DS2 22, DD 16
False D-Day 10/2015 I was sent a vid, but the quality wasn't good enough to prove. She denied, I believed.
D-Day 4/1/2016 (and I was stupid enough to at first think it was an elaborate April Fools

posts: 124   ·   registered: May. 3rd, 2016   ·   location: West coast
id 7637759
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Veub ( member #52948) posted at 2:13 AM on Monday, August 22nd, 2016

She suffered, at least, a moderate TBI. That can cause dramatic changes in behavior. It disrupts or destroys connections in your brain that help control you actions.

Google "brain injury and disinhibition"

She may take responsibility, but I know the changes it can cause in speech and actions. My daughter, the 22 suffered a TBI.

One of the results was a loss of sexual control for a period of time. We were warned by her physicians of that possibility, and were able to deal with the situation. I don't think about what could have happened if we had not known what to look for, and the treatment she needed. This is a physical, not psychological condition.

[This message edited by Veub at 8:30 PM, August 21st (Sunday)]

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id 7640307
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Veub ( member #52948) posted at 2:43 AM on Monday, August 22nd, 2016

Double post

[This message edited by Veub at 8:43 PM, August 21st (Sunday)]

posts: 52   ·   registered: Apr. 26th, 2016
id 7640319
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 Wittold (original poster member #53051) posted at 12:59 AM on Tuesday, August 30th, 2016

She was checked out by a neurologist and is on another medication that's supposed to help with the tinnitus. As far as her becoming a WS because of this, she says her DR says it's possible (lowered inhibitions, etc), but she doesn't believe that to be the case. She says she felt just as sexually charged before the accident. I'm not sure I share her belief, just because looking back I don't remember her being as black and white about things like she is now, and I think that maybe there are multiple personality differences that just slowly phased in that started after her accident. I'm not sure if it can/will make a difference in our ability to R though, as I just don't know I can feel "that" way for her again.

On the plus side, we've been meeting up once a week for coffee before work and once a week for dinner. I've really enjoyed her company, and it feels like I've regained my friend to some sort. Obviously not like it was before, but I do find myself looking forward to seeing her again. My IC has suggested that I may need to go through with D to put this behind me, but that we could always continue to be friends and possibly start to date again later. I've talked to her about this and she seems receptive, but she has pretty much been receptive to trying anything I want. I get the feeling she doesn't really believe we'll ever be together again if we D, and that she's putting on a brave face. In a nutshell, we've agreed to go forward with D at the start of next year if things haven't significantly changed.

Our positive relationship has helped tremendously with the kids. They see that WS and I will always try to remain friends at the very least, and they have visibly relaxed and appear to be coming to grips with the new reality. They have been advised that we plan on going for D if things don't change and have accepted this outcome.

Personally, I've become "comfortably numb". I'm no longer angry (for the most part), but I'm also not happy. I have moments of happiness, but my mindset is just...blah. My IC says I'm a "loyal to a fault" type of guy, and says I won't start to really be happy until there is closure; she believes the only way for me to re-boot my emotional self is by going forward with the D, so it's looking like that's what we're going to do.

BS (me) 50 WS 45 M 1990
DS1 25, DS2 22, DD 16
False D-Day 10/2015 I was sent a vid, but the quality wasn't good enough to prove. She denied, I believed.
D-Day 4/1/2016 (and I was stupid enough to at first think it was an elaborate April Fools

posts: 124   ·   registered: May. 3rd, 2016   ·   location: West coast
id 7647486
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Veub ( member #52948) posted at 6:43 PM on Tuesday, August 30th, 2016

just to be clear. The TBI doesn't cause an increase in sexual desire. It causes a loss of inhibitions in dealing with them.

Sexual desire is an emotion. Sexual activity is a physical expression of that emotion. Sexual or suggestive talk would also be emotional expressions. Sexual desire can also be expressed in the clothing one wears or the “signals” that pass between persons.

Think of that definition again. Disinhibition can be unrestrained behavior resulting from a brain injury. Many people think of Mardi Gras and Spring Break as periods of unrestrained behavior, and, for some people, they might very well be.

Dr. Glen Johnson, neuropsychologist, says in his book, Traumatic Brain Injury Survival Guide:

“Deep in the middle of the brain are sections that control emotions. They’re very primitive emotions that deal with hunger, aggression, and sexual drive. These areas send messages to other parts of the brain to DO SOMETHING. If you’re mad, hit something or someone. If you’re hungry, grab something and eat it.”

Both caregivers and medical professionals have reported being “hit on” by brain injury patients. This does not happen because the brain injured person has become an evil person; it’s because those primitive emotions are screaming DO SOMETHING.

The brain’s frontal lobe filter is taking a break from its usually non-stop activity of raising a STOP sign, and DO SOMETHING very well may escalate to DONE SOMETHING.

Sexual disinhibition can ruin your marriage if you do not recognize it for what it is. Remember the definition: unrestrained behavior. That sexual emotion becomes unrestrained behavior because of a brain malfunction, not because your spouse no longer loves you or has taken up a life of cheating.

I know that sounds pretty ridiculous to those of us who do not have an injured brain. We can think clearly; we can organize numerous sources of information into a related string of thoughts and make a decision based upon that thought string.

The frontal lobe of the brain that contains that big emotion filter also contains planning and organization “modules” that are used to sequence information and make decisions.

Now think again about the situation: primitive emotion says DO SOMETHING. It enters the organization stage as Step A. The brain misfires; there is no Step B and no Step C. The only brain activity to be organized is DO SOMETHING.

It passes from organization to planning where a decision will be prepared. DO SOMETHING is the only brain impulse flowing through the injured brain from planning to preparation to decision. Now it goes to the filter where the decision is lessened from its primitive state to a state that meets society’s expectations.

But the filter allows it to pass without modification. Is is the brain injured person’s fault their brain failed to act properly at a moment in time when it really needed to perform properly? No, it’s not.

So, the question is this. Are you prepared to love and live with a spouse who may become much more flirtatious, who may dress much more provocatively and who may actually follow that primitive emotion with primal action?

You, the spouse, are the only person on earth who can answer that question. You are the only one who knows your innermost feelings. Beth and I were fortunate to have an excellent social worker who clearly and plainly laid out to me much of what you have read in this article.

According to neuropsychologist Dr. Glen Johnson, approximately 75% of brain injury victims will never receive formal brain injury rehabilitation like Beth and I did.

Never forget that family members are in need of rehabilitation as much as the person who suffered the brain injury. The brain injured person may not recognize their behavior has changed. Loved ones, though, will know. And loved ones are the people who must deal with this new person.

I don’t guess anyone said it better than Judy Martin-Urban and her daughter, Courtney Larson, in their book I Can’t Remember Me. Courtney wrote:

“My husband tells me that I am different now, but ‘I can’t remember me.’ Mom says that my personality is changed, but I don’t remember my other personality.”

Beth and I pointed out in our book about her personality change. The Beth I was married to for twenty years is not the same Beth I have been married to for the past seventeen years.

The good news is that Beth’s filter works much, much better now than it did the first few years following her injury. And, yes, she has a body piercing…and, yes, she has a tattoo. There is nothing in the world wrong with either of those, but the “former” Beth would not have done it.

Your loved one has changed from the person you knew. He or she will exhibit new traits and new behaviors. How do you feel about that?

http://braininjurysociety.com/information/acquired-brain-injury/sex/

[This message edited by Veub at 1:27 PM, August 30th (Tuesday)]

posts: 52   ·   registered: Apr. 26th, 2016
id 7648093
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Veub ( member #52948) posted at 7:25 PM on Tuesday, August 30th, 2016

I need you to understand that my post was not meant to advise you on what you should do, but to point out the result of such an injury.

posts: 52   ·   registered: Apr. 26th, 2016
id 7648128
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 Wittold (original poster member #53051) posted at 10:04 PM on Tuesday, August 30th, 2016

just to be clear. The TBI doesn't cause an increase in sexual desire. It causes a loss of inhibitions in dealing with them.

Yes, that is my understanding. Her lower inhibitions could have lead to it, but when confronted, she says that wasn't a factor, and that she feels she could have stopped herself. I'm of mixed opinions here. I'm supposed to attend a session with her and her psychiatrist next Tuesday and hopefully I'll get a better understanding of just what exactly is going on with her.

I need you to understand that my post was not meant to advise you on what you should do, but to point out the result of such an injury.

Thank you, that's how I took it.

BS (me) 50 WS 45 M 1990
DS1 25, DS2 22, DD 16
False D-Day 10/2015 I was sent a vid, but the quality wasn't good enough to prove. She denied, I believed.
D-Day 4/1/2016 (and I was stupid enough to at first think it was an elaborate April Fools

posts: 124   ·   registered: May. 3rd, 2016   ·   location: West coast
id 7648285
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Veub ( member #52948) posted at 10:19 PM on Tuesday, August 30th, 2016

Her opinion on this is worthless. The simple fact is that people with brain injury cannot comprehend the personality changes they have suffered.

They think the changes were always the way they were.

Treatment makes a major difference in this perception.

Unless you deal with someone who specializes in brain injury rehabilitation, the MD won't have a clue.

Good luck to both of you.

[This message edited by Veub at 4:21 PM, August 30th (Tuesday)]

posts: 52   ·   registered: Apr. 26th, 2016
id 7648301
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longsadstory1952 ( member #29048) posted at 11:27 PM on Tuesday, August 30th, 2016

Sorry. I had Tbi to the point of amnesia for a short term. I didn't spend the next 10 years screwing 20 people of both sexes. This is a bs cop out.

posts: 1231   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2010
id 7648346
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Veub ( member #52948) posted at 2:38 AM on Wednesday, August 31st, 2016

.

[This message edited by Veub at 8:55 PM, August 30th (Tuesday)]

posts: 52   ·   registered: Apr. 26th, 2016
id 7648531
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