SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yeah, the rage is so very easy to understand...We all get it...

With the number of years you have been on the planet you have probably learned ways to cope with anger and rage without getting into trouble legally..

So I just wanted to tell you that you are not alone by any means..

It takes an extremely calm natured person to express his or her rage and be heard without being hurtful along the way.

Quite simply your WW has put you in an awful place..

Whether or not you understand her reasoning, her FOO issues, it doesn't change the situation you are facing or how you will end up handling it..

Infidelity puts our lives between the proverbial rock and the hard place..Unless we are wealthy we are gonna suffer in many physical ways (for decades to come) as well as the emotional..

Either we learn to live a long portion of our lives on a steady diet of shit sandwiches ( if we stay in the marriage), or we suffer in other ways if we divorce..

I feel rage and resentment.. My rage, if I let it go, would probably power a rocket to mars and back...I have no hopes of being heard if I talk to the WH about it..BTDT..So I cope by keeping NC with the WH....We only speak only to issues that must be discussed for life to run smoothly..Who goes to buy the food, who pays the water bill, etc..

This way of living works for me for now..I live my own separate life, keep to my own social circle, come and go from the house as I please...WH does the same..Neither one of us hang out with friends in the marital home, I personally don't want to expose any of my friends to any awkwardness or tension..

Our marriage is toast...I will lose my retirement in getting out of this 40 year marriage...I am already 60..It's not hard to do the math.

So I bide my time until I can find a permanent situation that allows me to separate and divorce the WH without becoming a homeless person....I retired from my career for health reasons..I refuse to un-retire and take a steady paying job until my plans to D and move out are solid and fairly eminent..That day may still be far off in the future yet.. Many factors need to come together for me to be able divorce the WH and rebuild my life successfully..

Looooooooong story short, if your rage is getting the best of you in a given moment, avoid anyone and anything that moves and breathes..Until you feel like you can stay calm with your thinking and words..

[This message edited by doggiediva at 7:47 PM, July 21st (Thursday)]

The comment to your son about divorcing if it was the other way round would be enough to end it to be honest.

I get this thought, I really do, but it really boils down to the differences in our personalities. She has always been the black/white half of our marriage, and I've always been the shades of gray. She knows she would have divorced me, and she knows she's being hypocritical when she asks me not to, but at least she's honest about it. She could just have easily tried to lie and manipulate our son by saying she'd keep me if the roles were reversed. If anything, she gained a very small piece of respect back from me when she told him this, both for being honest and by shouldering the blame if we D.

I can understand that to a small degree. Although my personality is now very black and white when it comes to cheating.

I've heard lots of waywards say they would divorce if the shoe were on the other foot. That's nothing new here.The thing I found most disturbing is when she admitted that if she had the opportunity she would have went every night to the swinger club. I just simply would not be able to move forward from that point.

I am not encouraging D or R. Whatever you decide is best for you is exactly what you should do, and I wish all the fortune in the world reaching whichever goal you seek. I'm just saying I couldn't get past that.

Exactly what long forgotten said..Things like that send my rage into a hard boil.When I am abandoned in a way I can't get past, when something is said/ done to me that is so hurtful..

And the person who offended me proceeds to gas light me and tells me that I have no right to my feelings..This is the offender who is gonna be missing a pair of balls and a bat if he gets or stays anywhere near me..

The thing I found most disturbing is when she admitted that if she had the opportunity she would have went every night to the swinger club. I just simply would not be able to move forward from that point.

This is a HUGE issue with me. HUGE. I'm not sure I can get past this.

Whatever you decide is best for you is exactly what you should do, and I wish all the fortune in the world reaching whichever goal you seek.

That is the $64,000 question. What is my end goal. Haven't a clue. Right now I'm trying to get by on a whole bunch of mini goals. Spend 2 hrs a day minimum with DD, get caught up on my huge backlog at work, etc. All my goals right now are for existence, and not life. My IC told me to come up with one activity I could do on my own for a minimum of 5 hours a week and OWN it. Golf? Nope, we did that together, so scratched. Boating? Fishing? Hiking? Camping? Quads? Motorcycle? EVERY activity I did for fun, I did with her. It's absolutely crazy how hard it is to come up with something fun when you are miserable.

I used to drink alcohol and eat with the XW and I still do those things without her. I still enjoy both of those activities!

If you loved those activities, you will love those without her. You just need to do them again and start writing over those old memories.

I looooooooooooooooooved traveling with the XW. I still absolutely adore traveling. So chin up, do the things you love. You WILL forget about the association with the WW eventually.

Focus on what you love about them. Golf? The smell of the grass and the sound of a well hit ball come to mind. You can do it!

Try fly-fishing.

Getting the cast is so frustrating and challenging that it will give you a new type of misery…

Wittold,

All in all, you are doing fine.

I want to address a couple of points:

Is seeing the recording better or worse than only having verbal descriptions? I guess it’s totally based on what you think. What I can share is that walking in on my then-fiancé having sex with the OM turned out to be a positive for me. What I saw was “less” than my imagination could have painted. But then… I am a hand-on problem solver. I need to know exactly what I’m dealing with.

Wayward are experts in compartmentalizing. I’m guessing that when your WW went through the process of going to the club she left her role as Mrs. Wittold behind. Chances are she had all sorts of worries and even doubts in the build-up but once behind the wheel of her car heading for the club… She’s not longer Mrs. Wittold.

I am still not buying the “it was only physical” line. I would think she got some emotional kick, sort of like when rich people shoplift. To me – this not only being physical for her – would possibly be a key to understand why she said that if she could she would go there every night.

Just one more thought. After 30 years so much of my life had been "with him." I made a conscious choice to leave behind things I didn't care for, to reclaim all the activities and places I still cared for, and to try as many fun & healthy new things as possible. As a result, I've been blessed with many new friends and experiences I would not have had. Best wishes no matter which way you go, just remember you get to determine your life now!

Wayward are experts in compartmentalizing. I’m guessing that when your WW went through the process of going to the club she left her role as Mrs. Wittold behind. Chances are she had all sorts of worries and even doubts in the build-up but once behind the wheel of her car heading for the club… She’s not longer Mrs. Wittold.

I definitely agree with this. It takes a special kind of compartmentalization to do so, and I believe that your WW possesses this trait. At least we know what her IC can focus on for some time in the future.

I am still not buying the “it was only physical” line. I would think she got some emotional kick, sort of like when rich people shoplift. To me – this not only being physical for her – would possibly be a key to understand why she said that if she could she would go there every night.

I agree with this also, but I do believe that your WW didn't, or doesn't, even realize that there was any sort of emotional connection. It was mixed up in all of the 'excitement' for her, but that emotional tie was still there. Again, that damn compartmentalization.

But your WW is being painfully honest with you. As shitty as you feel, just try to imagine if she wasn't forthcoming...and you had to try to gather all of the information yourself. Even the THOUGHT of reconciliation would be an impossibility. All that she can do from this point forward, if she wants to better herself, is to be transparent and to try to figure out her deficiencies through counseling and other resources. So at least she is taking positive steps.

I get this thought, I really do, but it really boils down to the differences in our personalities. She has always been the black/white half of our marriage, and I've always been the shades of gray. She knows she would have divorced me, and she knows she's being hypocritical when she asks me not to, but at least she's honest about it. She could just have easily tried to lie and manipulate our son by saying she'd keep me if the roles were reversed. If anything, she gained a very small piece of respect back from me when she told him this, both for being honest and by shouldering the blame if we D.

I agree with this also, but keep this in mind---in the THOUSANDS of stories that I have read here, there are only a handful(probably less than ten) that did not think that infidelity was an instant dealbreaker....and would have divorced immediately. The bottom line is that we just don't know what our boundaries are until we are challenged to act upon them. So for your wife to say this to your son is at least in my opinion, another sign of her trying to be honest. Again, a positive step in a shitty situation.

Who sent the email with the videos? I find that to be odd. Who would have a video, only someone in the "group"? And why? A jealous woman who your wife was too close to her guy? A man who wants to be his, not yours?

After the first video, wouldn't your wife be wondering who is the person who did this? She must have a good clue of who and why? Have I missed this here of who and why sent those emails with the videos?

Disturbing to me that she "almost" got caught, but didn't decide enough was enough.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 4:58 PM, July 24th (Sunday)]

He has explained that he believes the videos were sent by someone they know who she wouldn't fool around with. He also says the polygraph shows she stopped going after his medical treatment two years before the videos were sent.

[This message edited by Veub at 5:16 PM, July 24th (Sunday)]

Wittold, your wife told you that she would have gone to the club every day if she could have back then, and that statement bothers you particularly. Perhaps you and she have different meanings of that statement. Perhaps you hear her saying that she would have cheated whenever she could, but what she might be saying is that she would have had sex whenever she could. After all, she stopped going to the club once your medical condition was remedied.

Wittold, your wife told you that she would have gone to the club every day if she could have back then, and that statement bothers you particularly. Perhaps you and she have different meanings of that statement. Perhaps you hear her saying that she would have cheated whenever she could, but what she might be saying is that she would have had sex whenever she could. After all, she stopped going to the club once your medical condition was remedied.

This is true, both ways; that is what I meant, and that is what she meant, but it doesn't make it any easier.

I agree with this also, but I do believe that your WW didn't, or doesn't, even realize that there was any sort of emotional connection. It was mixed up in all of the 'excitement' for her, but that emotional tie was still there.

This is also true, and has been confirmed by her psychiatrist, although is wasn't excitment she was getting out of it, but more self validation.

She (the psychiatrist) also confirmed the sexual addiction diagnosis, and prescribed WW with an anti-depressant. I've also learned that there was some sexual trauma with her older brother when she was 8-10. WW said she never thought it was a big deal and that it didn't affect her, so she never told me (that and she didn't want me to think poorly of her brother as they were "just kids". With him being 6 years older than her, I sure as hell think poorly of him). The psychiatrist thinks it's a HUGE deal, and is likely the root of her need to seek validation from sex.

I'm currently caught in an emotional rut. With everything she's learning about herself, and finding out that there is a medical root cause for her behavior, I'm very sympathetic, but as of right now I still don't have forgiveness in my heart. We ARE getting along much better, so I guess that's a start. I no longer have feelings of hate for her, but I also don't have the feeling that I want to always be around her like I used to. I have to admit that over the weekend while she was laying out at the pool she was looking desirable, which I didn't think would ever be the case again.

We are both still in agreement that it will be good for her to move into the rental house next month when it becomes available. She feels (as do I), that it will be a good way for her to come to terms with herself and start healing without the emotional distraction of having to interact with me on a day to day basis, and I completely agree with her. We told the kids (even our deployed son) that we need to do this separation if we are going to have a chance at R, and while I'm not sure they understand why we need to split if we want to stay together, they are supporting our plan. All of the kids now know about WW's infidelity, as do her parents (she told them all); the kids all told her that they'd pretty much guessed that was what had happened.

DD has asked that WW go with us this afternoon on our "date" to the park to go Pokemon hunting and I told her "we'll see". A part of me wants her to come along, but another part of me still doesn't want to allow her because it would be showing forgiveness, and I'm still in too much pain for that. I'm also not sure it would be a good idea for us to start doing family things together in case we do go the D route. I don't want my daughter to get false hopes. I have an IC session today after work and will talk to her about this and get her advice.

Is seeing the recording better or worse than only having verbal descriptions? I guess it’s totally based on what you think. What I can share is that walking in on my then-fiancé having sex with the OM turned out to be a positive for me. What I saw was “less” than my imagination could have painted. But then… I am a hand-on problem solver. I need to know exactly what I’m dealing with.

I don't really know. The vids don't really show that much as far as what was really going on. These aren't porn quality vids by any means. My imagination is still very much involved.

Chances are she had all sorts of worries and even doubts in the build-up but once behind the wheel of her car heading for the club...

Yup, this behavior was part of her diagnosis. She felt tremendous shame all the time, except when she was at the club, where she felt totally relaxed, which lead to her desire to be at the club more, which increased her feelings of shame.

People who have been cheated on...and some therapists..are quick to use the sex addict diagnosis. Unless a CSAT has diagnosed her as a sex addict, then I'd take that diagnosis with a grain of salt.

I've also learned that there was some sexual trauma with her older brother when she was 8-10. WW said she never thought it was a big deal and that it didn't affect her, so she never told me (that and she didn't want me to think poorly of her brother as they were "just kids". With him being 6 years older than her, I sure as hell think poorly of him). The psychiatrist thinks it's a HUGE deal, and is likely the root of her need to seek validation from sex.

I agree with your therapist that this is a HUGE reason for your wife's actions. Childhood sex abuse (CSA) is so many times the real reason that woman have affairs and feel the need for outside validation.

Your wife loves you but probably thought she could never be that way with you. CSA is so devastating that it can ruin a woman's life until they finally are able to admit the past.

I would be more than angry with her brother, especially if this was forced sex when she was 8 years old.

One poster on here, I think it was Bigger, one of the finest posters on here, posted this a while back and it really sums it up...

"Re-creating the abuse is common, seeking a different outcome or seeking to control the outcome or a combination of that and non-existent self-esteem, of being convinced that you're not worth anything more than being used as a sex toy."

I am not so sure separation is really the right way to handle this. Being together can help you heal along with your wife. But if you are separate, it can just prolong the situation and maybe she feels that it is okay to have more affairs.

All of the kids now know about WW's infidelity, as do her parents (she told them all); the kids all told her that they'd pretty much guessed that was what had happened.

Wittold

Guessing infidelity would be pretty easy with the information they had to work with. Did your wife tell them she was a member of a swinger’s club for years?

DD has asked that WW go with us this afternoon on our "date" to the park to go Pokemon hunting and I told her "we'll see". A part of me wants her to come along, but another part of me still doesn't want to allow her because it would be showing forgiveness, and I'm still in too much pain for that. I'm also not sure it would be a good idea for us to start doing family things together in case we do go the D route.

Wittold

Doing family stuff is a visible sign to the WW and the world that what she did must not have been so bad. As a BS you have a magic wand that can make all the bad fallout go away. People put pressure on you and paint you as the bad guy if you don’t wave it.

Your forgiveness is very valuable. Since you are the party most injured how could anyone else not forgive her if you do? “Your father forgave me why can’t you?”

I am curious about the diagnosis here. Is it PTSD/ CSAT isn't an illness that medication is typically prescribed (I don't think)

So I used to represent patients in their commitment hearings at a State Mental Hospital. It was not unusual to see Bipolar patients in a manic phase become hyper-sexual. There are other illnesses, BPD for example, that also have the same tendency.

My point here is that I think there are very complicated issues with your wife. There are with mine - I sympathize.

As far as I am concerned THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR CHEATING!!! It's pure selfishness of their own needs with no thought at all of the consequences and impact on the betrayed spouse or children. It affects all aspects of life. It would have been easier for her to have a serious talk to you about her needs instead of cheating. And you are NOT TO BLAME YOURSELF FOR HER SELFISHNESS.

GennyA,

Couldnt agree more!

As her bahavior may be explained by psycology it will never be justifyed!

If is not admissible in court, and she knew all the time what she was doing, it was not a mistake, was planned everytime, was calculated and executed fully knowing that she will D Wittold by less than she was doing.

I am curious about the diagnosis here. Is it PTSD/ CSAT isn't an illness that medication is typically prescribed (I don't think)

I'm not really sure. I was asked to come in for the last 10 minutes of her session yesterday, and the psychiatrist spoke to me very much in layman's terms. It was more along the order of "yes, she has a medical disorder and here is how we're going to treat it" than "I have diagnosed her with X and am proscribing Y". Most of the info I have was given to me by WW afterwards, although I did see the prescription.

Guessing infidelity would be pretty easy with the information they had to work with. Did your wife tell them she was a member of a swinger’s club for years?

Her mother yes, our children no, nor would I have wanted her to.

Doing family stuff is a visible sign to the WW and the world that what she did must not have been so bad. As a BS you have a magic wand that can make all the bad fallout go away. People put pressure on you and paint you as the bad guy if you don’t wave it.

Very good point. My IC said it would be a horrible idea for us to be together with DD, for multiple reasons, and that I should be honest with DD that I didn't want to do it and get her hopes up that we were going to R. I told my DD and she understood. I told her she should take her mom tomorrow and do it and she said no, that's our thing.

As far as I am concerned THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR CHEATING!!! It's pure selfishness of their own needs with no thought at all of the consequences and impact on the betrayed spouse or children.

I'm sympathetic, not granting her an excuse. Trust me, I am NOT going to give her a pass on this.

I am not so sure separation is really the right way to handle this. Being together can help you heal along with your wife. But if you are separate, it can just prolong the situation and maybe she feels that it is okay to have more affairs.

Maybe, but it's going to happen because I need the time away from her. I see 3 potential outcomes:

1. She cheats and we're done.

2. She doesn't cheat and we're still done.

3. She heals, I heal and somehow I am able to accept her back and we R. In order for this to happen, I need to be away from her so I can actually miss her. Right now she's still trying to do all the little things for me but they irritate me and I've asked her to stop. I need to get back to the point where I want those interactions and look forward to being with her again (if possible). I need a break from her.

I would be more than angry with her brother, especially if this was forced sex when she was 8 years old.

I'm told there wasn't intercourse; she wanted to tell me everything but after the first thing she told me I asked her to stop because it was just flat out disgusting. Suffice to say I told her I didn't want him around either myself or the kids and she agreed (I think I've met him 4 times, so not really a big deal).

I worked with my IC today about finding something to do during "ME" time and she bounced around some ideas, none of which appealed to me. She suggested I look through the local community college non-credit courses and bingo! I've decided to take Krav Maga twice a week starting Thursday. I'm actually looking forward to it.