SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Anything that helps you find some joy is a positive thing.

Hopefully, now that she has admitted childhood sexual abuse, and it is now out in the open, she can heal from this and start to live a normal life.

I hope she tells the full story to the therapist, because she most likely needs to get the entire story out now about her brother.

I've decided to take Krav Maga twice a week starting Thursday. I'm actually looking forward to it.

That's neat, I have always wanted to do that.

Probably this post will offend a number of people on this forum, but:

You have ample reason to divorce her. There's no excuse for what she did.

Even though you have good reason to walk away, that if you give reconciliation a chance, doesn't mean you have no obligations. If you want to pursue a reconciliation, you have to be completely committed to the process.

Reconciliation is just as much work for you as for her. You have to be honest and open, both to her and to yourself. It's tempting to do things that will "punish her," but you have moral and ethical obligation not to do that. You can't try to isolate her from family and friends to "get them on your side." In fact, there can't be "sides." You cannot have any concern whether your actions look like "forgiveness" to outsiders - including people on this board.

None of these things are easy to do.

You also both have to examine the reasons you both did things destructive to the marriage. I not talking about "excuses" for the behavior, but the reasons, good or bad, why you did those things.

She has to examine why she wasn't honest with you upfront about her intentions. Why didn't she confront you with an ultimatum? I strongly suspect that it was less about your failure to perform sexually, and more about your apparent disregard of her concerns.

You have to examine the reasons why you ignored her "begging" (your word) for years to do something about your problem. It's not as simple as low testosterone - it's why you ignored her concerns. I AM NOT saying your actions are an excuse for her behavior.

I hope I am wrong, but it seems to me that you are falling into the trap of punishment and isolation. You are requiring her to separate, apparently also from your daughter. You even imply that you are trying to set a trap to see if she cheat again. I can't see any good coming out of the separation - if anything, it's going to drive you farther apart.

Sorry for this long winded rant, but if you don't have a legitimate desire to reconcile, don't pretend to either her, or yourself. If you know that you will not be able to put in an open and honest move on now. A pretense will only lead to more heartbreak for you, her, and your family.

[This message edited by Veub at 11:48 AM, July 27th (Wednesday)]

You have ample reason to divorce her. There's no excuse for what she did.

Even though you have good reason to walk away, that if you give reconciliation a chance, doesn't mean you have no obligations. If you want to pursue a reconciliation, you have to be completely committed to the process.

Reconciliation is just as much work for you as for her. You have to be honest and open, both to her and to yourself. It's tempting to do things that will "punish her," but you have moral and ethical obligation not to do that. You can't try to isolate her from family and friends to "get them on your side." In fact, there can't be "sides." You cannot have any concern whether your actions look like "forgiveness" to outsiders - including people on this board.

If we decide to R, I'll give it 100%.

I hope I am wrong, but it seems to me that you are falling into the trap of punishment and isolation. You are requiring her to separate, apparently also from your daughter. You even imply that you are trying to set a trap to see if she cheat again. I can't see any good coming out of the separation - if anything, it's going to drive you farther apart.

You are wrong. We are both wanting to separate, it's not just me. My daughter is free to roam back and forth between houses. She will have a room at both houses, but this really isn't a big deal. Daughter has a car and the houses are pretty close together. I am in no way setting a trap? I don't even know where this comes from? I also disagree that nothing good will come from the separation; my sanity is absolutely priceless.

Sorry for this long winded rant, but if you don't have a legitimate desire to reconcile, don't pretend to either her, or yourself. If you know that you will not be able to put in an open and honest move on now. A pretense will only lead to more heartbreak for you, her, and your family.

I neither have a legitimate desire to R or D. There is no pretense. I don't know what I want, and the only way that I think I'll find that clarity is by getting away from her. It's as simple as that.

[This message edited by Wittold at 6:08 PM, July 27th (Wednesday)]

I can understand why you need a little separation (for your sanity), but you said she wants the separation too?

I don't think that is a good sign. what is her reason for wanting separation?

usually when a wayward spouse wants separation it is to continue the affair.

Owing two homes close to each other is a blessing that many people don’t have. Your daughter having a car and being able to go wherever she wants is a major plus. Hopefully this environment will foster a friendly working relationship. After that you can see what develops.

I can understand why you need a little separation (for your sanity), but you said she wants the separation too?

I don't think that is a good sign. what is her reason for wanting separation?

usually when a wayward spouse wants separation it is to continue the affair.

She wants focus on healing as well. Between IC and Psychiatrist, she is doing 4 visits per week, and is also joining a support group that meets ? times per week. She just wants time to be able to get "fixed", and doesn't want me or daughter to feel like she's not giving us the attention she feels we need. We'll still see each other, but we won't be living together. I doubt she'll use the time to see other men, but if she does, then there's nothing I can do about it. She's an emotional wreck right now who hates what's become of her life; I sincerely believe she won't stray any longer and absolutely ruin any chance of R that we have.

Owing two homes close to each other is a blessing that many people don’t have. Your daughter having a car and being able to go wherever she wants is a major plus. Hopefully this environment will foster a friendly working relationship. After that you can see what develops

.That's our goal.

I

get this thought, I really do, but it really boils down to the differences in our personalities.

[

bold]She has always been the black/white half of our marriage[/bold],

If she was so black/white she would have the clear stance of cheating is wrong no matter what. Most cheaters always say it's complicated or it's not actually black or white to make excuses for their cheating. Or is it that she went against her own principles.

If you had a medical condition in the future which made sex impossible, can you trust her not to seek it elsewhere?

[

bold]She knows she would have divorced me, and she knows she's being hypocritical when she asks me not to, but at least she's honest about it. [/bold]

I really struggle with the hypocrisy of this to be honest and I also wonder how much respect she'll really have for you deep down, if you don't get divorced.

My two cents. In most cases a separation is as good as asking for a divorce. The WW is able to be on her own and not see the damage/pain she has caused and is able to rug sweep. The BS is alone with many questions, and always wondering if she is still cheating. Normally, a seperation means that the WW wants to continue their affair without the BS getting in the way.

That said, I do believe your case is different. You may have the whole story but how do you even process how many times she had sex? Could you ever compete? How could she think this was OK?...I can see a lot of things you need to process to figure out if you can ever got over this.

On her end, I think she is finally seeing how very broken she is and how badly she needs help. I think I can understand how she can be black and white and still have allowed this. She seemed to have many black and white boundaries within her cheating... Can't know the person, you must be OOT, location of the swingers club, no attachment...

I think you are making the right decision to separate especially with the houses close together and daughter driving.

Wittold

All-in-all I think you are doing an excellent job and all things considered in a very good place.

It’s all relative though… Standing on the ledge on top of a 100 story building might not be a “good place”. That is unless the building was ablaze and you could see the rescue helicopter approaching. That would make the ledge a better place than the burning inferno you just left. In a sense that’s where you are and all things considered then that’s about as good a place as you can be on.

Great your WW is seeking professional help. Maybe it will lead to a situation where you feel safe and want to reestablish a marriage. Maybe it won’t. That’s totally your call. No matter what anyone else says here on SI or anywhere else then it’s TOTALLY your call. I have seen people reconcile from what most would consider more, I have seen people divorce for what many would consider less. It’s your call and you will make that call at a time that’s convenient for you.

Two things I want to warn you about:

Set yourself some deadline. It doesn’t have to be decisive. It’s enough that you write down the pluses and the minuses as you see them now and promise yourself to revisit that list in 30-60-90 days. Whatever is convenient to you. When you revisit that list add to it, strike out, evaluate. At some point – when you feel safe and ready – commit to either D or R.

What I would hate to see is that you and WW stay married but separated in all but name. That’s no life for either of you. If you do decide to remain married, then strive for the BEST marriage in the world. If you decide to divorce, then get it over with in as amicable and dignified way as possible.

The second thing is the sexual addiction…

Let me start by sharing that I do believe it’s a real affliction. There are people addicted to sex.

But you have to realize what an addiction is, what it means and what it REALLY is.

For you and your WW sake I hope she’s only screwed up and not a SA…

Back in the 1980s alcoholism became commonly acknowledged as a disease or condition. Before that people simply had problems with their alcohol or couldn’t handle it and were simply told to stop. Well… with the acknowledgement came all the people that excused their failures to alcoholism:

Businessmen would explain embezzlement, bankruptcy or losing money to alcoholism and their banker or shareholders would all wish them well and a good recovery and hand them their old jobs.

Husbands could get away with being abusive because they acknowledged their alcoholism, got treatment and their wives were told that now things would be great (until next weekend…).

Basically nearly ANY bad behavior could be excused, explained or hidden by an alcoholism diagnostic and simply seeking treatment and abstaining would more-or-less wipe the slate clean and fix the issues.

Only… not all these people were alcoholics. And not all alcoholics become nice people simply by not drinking…

Plus, an addiction is a LIFE-LONG issue and needs LIFE-LONG treatment. That’s why they give medals for those that have been going to AA for 10-20-30-40 years… Once an addict – always an addict…

And treating someone that isn’t an addict with an addict-based treatment is about as effective as treating a cold with foot-fungi cream.

Is her psychologist really capable of diagnosing SA? Honestly I don’t think they are without some really good and intense training…

For both your sake I would hope your wife was “only” a sexual deviant, or someone that got her validation through the currency of sex rather than a SA. Those two are treatable, SA is only containable.

Ps: an afterthought: For someone seeking validation then going to an SA meeting and sharing “hi! My name is Mrs. Wittold and I’m a SA…” IS validation.

just to address black/white thinking...

many serious mental illness have black/white thinking as a symptom. another trait for these mental illnesses is risk taking behavior which includes cheating and promiscuity. im not saying your wife is mentally ill but white/black thinking is a major red flag when added to what shes done.

Two things I want to warn you about:

Set yourself some deadline. It doesn’t have to be decisive. It’s enough that you write down the pluses and the minuses as you see them now and promise yourself to revisit that list in 30-60-90 days. Whatever is convenient to you. When you revisit that list add to it, strike out, evaluate.

This is what my IC told me to do. "Write down where your life is now, then write where you want it to be in a month, then write your plan how to get from where it is now, to where you want it to be. Then execute your plan. When you are there, do the same thing for the following month, lather, rinse, repeat." She told me it should be a living document, and should fluctuate just like life. The main thing she's been helping me with are setting goals, and getting away from the "I don't know" answers that I have in my life.

Let me start by sharing that I do believe it’s a real affliction. There are people addicted to sex.

But you have to realize what an addiction is, what it means and what it REALLY is.

For you and your WW sake I hope she’s only screwed up and not a SA…

I get this, I really do. I'm of mixed emotional feelings as it would be easier for my pride to accept if it was caused by a true SA, but the logic part of my brain then tells me that means I'll always be afraid of her doing it again. I don't want to live in fear.

Is her psychologist really capable of diagnosing SA? Honestly I don’t think they are without some really good and intense training…

Her psychiatrist is one of the co-authors of the American Psychiatric Association paper that defined Hypersexual Disorder. She's a rock star in her field. That being said, I'm not sure what her true diagnosis is, only that she says my wife needs medication and further therapy.

Ps: an afterthought: For someone seeking validation then going to an SA meeting and sharing “hi! My name is Mrs. Wittold and I’m a SA…” IS validation.

This is a great point.

many serious mental illness have black/white thinking as a symptom. another trait for these mental illnesses is risk taking behavior which includes cheating and promiscuity. im not saying your wife is mentally ill but white/black thinking is a major red flag when added to what shes done.

Her psychiatrist has stated that she is mentally ill and requires ongoing treatment. Since my wife is the patient, I really haven't been privy to diagnosis/prognosis. What I have been told is that she has a valid medical condition that requires treatment and medication.

Since my wife is the patient, I really haven't been privy to diagnosis/prognosis.

Your WW can give written authorization for her doctors to discuss all things freely with you concerning her diagnosis and prognosis. If my spouse was mentally ill I would want to be privy to all that information. In fact, it would be a requirement to be able to even consider reconciliation.

I do feel you have made great strides for your healing wittold and that you are on a path towards healing. Best of luck.

Don't allow yourself to use this as an easy out for her. She didn't cheat with dozens of men and women because she is sick. She did so because she had the opportunity and she wanted to.

Make sure to hold her accountable and don't allow yourself to feel sorry for her and rugsweep. Stay strong.

[This message edited by longforgotten at 11:56 AM, July 29th (Friday)]

Bigger's post. Read it and read it again.

Her psychiatrist has stated that she is mentally ill and requires ongoing treatment. Since my wife is the patient, I really haven't been privy to diagnosis/prognosis. What I have been told is that she has a valid medical condition that requires treatment and medication.

It sounds like your ww is being aggressive in treating her illness. This is a very good thing. One way you will know if your wife is serious is the actions she takes to understand and her treat her condition.

This does not excuse the behavior. It is a partial explanation, but your WW was capable of knowing she was wrong.

In my own story I found my wife's desire to get better important in my decision to R. But as bigger rightly points out: that decision is your own.

Wittold

I believe I read that your wife has been diagnosed was being bi-polar. If I'm mistaken, please disregard the rest of what I write. I've read that being bi-polar can make someone hypersexual. Well, I read an article by Suzy Favor Hamilton's husband. You may recall, she's the olympic runner that became an escort in Las Vegas. She was also diagnosed as being bi-polar. Her husband Mark wrote a brief article as to why he stayed with her. I think you might find it useful to read and understand that you are not alone in this nightmare. I don't have the link but it should only take you a simple google search to find it. It might be helpful.

I can only imagine how difficult this is for you. And yet, it appears that your wife loves you.

good luck friend.

The tenants in our rental moved out early, so we're going to spend the weekend doing new paint, etc and then moving her in (hopefully Sunday).

We're getting along well, but I just don't feel like there is an "us" anymore. I feel sympathetic to everything that she's going through, but I'm beginning to doubt that I'll ever be able to get the spark back. Her moving out and us not seeing each other every day may make me feel something for her (other than pain), but at this point I'm beginning to doubt it. We had a long talk last night and I told her how I'm feeling, and she gets it. She's asking that I don't file for at least 3 months so we can see if I start to re-develop feelings and I've agreed.

I've met some pretty cool people at Krav Maga, including another Dad going through a D. He and I (along with his 14 y/o S and my daughter) went golfing Saturday and then back to his apartment for a BBQ. It's amazing how nice it is to have a friend who gets it, and wasn't part of our circle of friends.

Bigger's post is good. But,curiously,he confines his examples of alcoholics who abused spouses and embezzled etc.to the male gender.

I think it is pretty well established that women abuse and steal as frequently. Must be some stereotyping going on.