SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Grizz,

Hope you're hanging in there. Wishing you the best outcome.

Ditto

Grizz,

Hope you're hanging in there. Wishing you the best outcome.

Me too. Holiday season is extra brutal with this stuff, I hope you are as well as you can be.

My Dear Friends,

It has been some time since I have been on here. A lot has happened. But the bottom line is I am doing much better. Thank you for thinking of me. I have been thinking about all of you as well. This is the kindest most miserable group and I am so glad to have found you and be a part of your collective.

Thanksgiving.

I decided that I wanted to spend Thanksgiving with my son and my crazy family. So my son and I went to my family’s house where we had a bit of a family reunion. You know what? We had a really nice time. I was shocked. Very little of the usual family drama. It was so nice to be with those people. I got along with everyone. The kids all played and laughed. We had great food. It was wonderful. My boy wanted to know why his mom wasn’t coming and I just said it was a “guys trip” which he bought. He wants to do more guys trips now! I did not discuss any infidelity or deep issues with my family. We are not close that way. But it was still a great trip.

My wife stayed at home and packed. She was miserable and complained constantly. I think this is the first time in our marriage that she “worked” while I was out having fun. It was a real eye opener for her. She hated every minute of it and texted me constantly about how miserable she was.

I think this changed things for us (in the short term anyway). She was a sad wet dog when we got home. And has been (mostly) since. She is actually working a lot these days. She works in our business and will be getting another job in January.

We have been going to therapy both individual and marriage. Sometimes it’s very useful sometimes it feels like a big waste of time. I think she realizes what she has done. I think she feels genuine remorse. She sees that our relationship has changed. Or maybe she sees that her infidelity has changed me and the way I see her. I am not quite so giving or trusting with her. I don’t cater to her whims as much. I don’t feel close to her. I think that could be a problem if that persists long term. I don't want to have a walking dead marriage.

We still fight. I still get enraged when I think about what she did. It especially happens at just the wrong moment. This morning when we were lying together in bed she was very close to me smiling at me when I thought that she did the exact same thing with the other guy and I wanted to puke. It ruined “the moment”.

I get mad at her when I feel like I think she has forgotten that things have changed. We were decorating the Christmas tree last weekend and she was pretending that everything was normal. Like it was all ok and we were just a happy family decorating our tree. That made me very mad. Everything is definitely not ok. Getting better maybe. But not ok. I want that to be on her mind all the time. She says she acts normal for our kid. That is reasonable but I don’t want her to forget or think that I have forgotten.

I am doing better myself though. I can function. I am more in touch with myself and my own needs. I was seriously considering having a revenge affair again. I have shelved it for the same reasons I didn't do it before. I will not go down that road. It would be a very selfish thing to do. The only reason I would want to do it would be to make me feel like a man and desirable after being cheated on. And to hurt my wife. I can’t use another person that way. I need to work this stuff out with my therapist and not hurt an innocent person. I just needed to admit that I have had those thoughts again.

Anniversary

It was our wedding anniversary recently. Normally I would spend weeks thinking of and searching for a thoughtful and meaningful gift for her. This year. Nothing. No card. No gift. She asked me if I wanted to go to dinner and a movie. No. I avoided her the whole day. She supposedly made me a special meal. I ate out. Childish I know. But fuck that. I am not pretending. I am not celebrating a marriage that is so fucked up. She got very mad at me. I did not really care. I was being an asshole for a day.

I think part of my pathology is to push her away to see if she will come back. I don’t know why I do that.

Christmas

Same thing. I am not getting her squat. Nothing.

When I give gifts or do things for people in my life it is because the gesture and the gift has some meaning. I don’t give gifts thoughtlessly. I agonize over them. I think about what the person would want and personalize it in some way. In the past these gifts to my wife were accepted with yawns. No more. So big big savings this Christmas for me.

I know much of this will sound petty, childish, and petulant, and I welcome your comments. But I am telling myself that I need to do these things to make myself feel better.

I have lurked on this site a bit in the middle of the night. It’s so sad to see people falling off the same cliff. The slow steady trickle of pain and sadness. The same discovery, confirmation, shock, despair, rage, denial, on and on and on…

When I first found out I felt like I was in a bad dream. Everything had a sense of unreality to it. There is nothing to be done to speed up the healing process. It is something that you just have to go through and come out the other end.

But if you want to know what the healing process feels like for me this is the song I would listen to on repeat while hiking in the woods when I found out and was trying to get my bearings.

Song: Circle, Artist: Bon Iver, Album: 22, A Million

I have no idea what the hell the song is about and I really don’t care. It doesn’t matter. It made me feel better.

Again thank you guys for your advice, for thinking of me, and for your kindness in the midst of your own pain. I am muddling through.

Nice update. No matter what you'll be fine.

Why? Because you now know you can do it on your own.

I wouldn't worry much about skipping the anniversary or holidays with her. Consequences can be a good thing. It's how we learn.

Doesn't sound petty, childish, or petulant to me. It sounds totally normal. Our first Christmas after dday, I told my WH I was sitting this one out. If he wanted a celebration, he could do it himself. So he and the kids did it all and I waited for the days to pass.

Focus on yourself and your son.

Glad to hear you are hanging in there and focusing on yourself a bit. I think your feelings are normal. Continue to feel those.

You mention 22 a Million. I've listened to that album more than any other this year and it's been like the friend I needed.

Circle is one of my favorites. So many incredible verses. This is probably my favorite:

"So much for me to pick up, not sure what forgiveness is".

Hey, great to hear from you. And no, you sound actually pretty darn healthy to me. This is the time for you to think about what you want and need, and to be selfish about pursuing that. It's a time to set up new expectation, new realities, and break old chains of habit and dependency.

Best of all, it's a time for you to come to the realization that you can be fine by yourself. That no matter how this all ends up, you ARE enough and you WILL be fine with or without your WW.

That was a big step for me Knowing, deep down, that if push came to shove, I would be just fine with FWH. That I could and would thrive without him. That was a big eye opener for him as well. When I went from the person who needed the most, to the person who could stand alone, the dynamic shifted. BTW, it took me four years to acknowledge our anniversary with so little as a card. That first Christmas? Bleah. My give-a-fuck was sorta broken. Rightfully so.

All in all, you sound like you're in a pretty good place right now. Keep the detachment going, until you see solid progress on her getting off the Pity Party float. If you do R, yes, at some point, you're going to have to start to re-attach, but until then, some healthy detachment is god for you. And if/when you do make a commitment to re-attach, let it be in a healthy way for you.

God bless you, Grizzly. I check on here every day for you.

Griz, I'm here just to say that I admire your honesty and wisdom. God bless you.

Thank you for the update, Grizzly. I've checked daily and was concerned you had not posted for so long. As you well know, this is a shit storm and it's not easy; in fact, xh's cheating and behavior constituted the most difficult trial of my entire life. If you don't want to acknowledge your anniversary or buy a Christmas gift for your WW, don't. You're entitled to bypass any event you want. I'm with you: gift giving is a thoughtful exchange that has meaning to it and reflects who YOU are. If you're aren't feeling it, that's ok. And understandable.

Please don't stay away so long between posts. Even a short post saying you're ok is enough.

Based on your circumstances - a very decent update, standing up for you and trying to figure out what you need.

Take care Griz.

i think the ignoring anniversary, x-mas, etc is all normal. ive not bought a present for my wife since i jfo and i used to shower her in gifts.

Hey Griz, thanks for the update.

I think you're doing relatively well.

You may feel that the things you're doing and/or thinking about are childish or vengeful, and maybe they are. The upside is that you are VERY tuned into yourself. You are able to objectively analyze your thoughts, feelings and actions to try to understand yourself. Well done. This is not always easy for folks, especially us boys.

You'll start coming through soon, I can feel it. You'll decide one way or another soon, but there's no need and no real way to rush it.

I hope you have a good holiday season, Griz.

Thank you for your kind responses. My therapist agrees with a lot of your feedback. I guess I am not being a selfish crazy prick after all. My intent is not to hurt anyone (much) and I think that is part of why I am ok with no gifts this year. I need to do this for myself so there are some consequences for her. And I just need to do it for me. So I am ok with it.

We have the same plan questioningall. I will be jovial and jolly for my boy and will make it a memorable Christmas for him. Maybe if my wife and I are still together next year, we can get back into the whole family spirit.

Yes Mark6! Isnt’t it a great album? I really like it except for some of the autotune numbers. And you nailed it with the Circle line. It haunts me. It was like that line was written for my circumstances. But that is the thing about that song, it could mean almost anything to anyone. It’s beautiful and haunting and it helped me as I walked through the woods this Fall despairing about my life.

Thank you Skan. You are right and I am coming to that realization. I know I am going to be ok. One way or the other. The chaos of the past few months is coming to a head. We move tomorrow. We will have some time over the Holiday to relax (finally!) and reset what is left our marriage in a new house and new town.

That you wool and lifeisbroken for your concern. You guys have been wonderful and I really appreciate your support.

And to everyone and anyone reading this I hope you and your family and loved ones have a wonderful Christmas/Hanukkah or whatever you celebrate. If not wonderful, at least peaceful. Even in the midst of the shit that we are all going through, we can slow down, and take stock in some things that we are grateful for. We are alive (even if sometimes we wish we weren’t). There is good and beauty in the world despite our present circumstances. If you have children, love them. If you have friends or family tell them that you love them. If you have no one, love yourself and do something kind for a stranger in need.

We are all going to be OK one way or the other.

Many others have been through this hell and have survived and even thrived in some cases. That is what this site has shown me and I am very thankful.

Here is to a new and better year for us all.

it sounds as though you are toughening up and that is a good thing IMO

I appreciate the update.

Cheating has consequences. You are showing her that and that is good.

However, think about what expectations you have and don't live in limbo too long. whether she leaves or stays. Limbo is hell

[This message edited by Western at 2:13 PM, December 21st (Wednesday)]

Hello All,

I just wanted to post and update and get some advice about a few issues.

Wordsofwisdom - I have looked up the Eisenhower Matrix. Very cool. I have asked my staff to look at it and we might use it in our business. Very simple and elegant idea. Thank you very much. And I have downloaded 7 Habits. I appreciate the suggestions.

manfromlamancha - yes she has displayed these behaviors in the past. she is flirtatious by nature. not to the point of being disrespectful with other men in front of me, but she has been flirty in the past. Behind my back she has clearly been more than just flirtatious on at least two occasions. I think the attention fills some emptiness she has in herself. I think she recognizes this and says she is working on it. But that is her GD problem not mine.

And you are absolutely right. I have satisfied every need of hers. From being a “respectable husband and a good catch” to being gracious with her family and a source of financial stability. She knows she can count on me for anything. I have been a rock for her. And it is infuriating to me that I let her treat me and disrespect me the way she has.

And yes she is a fantastic liar. World Class. I would never have thought it possible that I could be so completely duped for such a long time. She lied to my face again and again day in and out for months and years. But maybe it’s because I wanted to believe that everything was ok. But also because she is an exceptional liar.

Other News

We have moved, I am down to 2 part time jobs and my full time business. Compared to what I was doing a few months ago, this is a total breeze. So I have some time and bit more energy to dedicate to myself and getting my own shit together. You may be right, I may very well go the D route. It seems less scary to me that it did previously.

I recently had a conversation with a guy I know. He got divorced a year ago and he says his life is much better now. He is dating a fabulous woman. He is happy. He is glowing. He looks great and feels great. I don’t believe all the hype. I don’t think any relationship is all roses. There is a sober reality and a mundane nature to our everyday affairs. I don’t think many people are HAPPY all the time. But divorce for a second time doesn't seem like the end of the road for me as it did a few months ago.

I care less about any rebound guy that she might find if we D. You guys are totally right about that. I worry more about what kind of a person I would end up with. I have a lot of work to do on myself before I get in any other relationship if we do divorce. I don’t need any more crazy women in my life. I know there is life after divorce. I have done it once before. I just don’t have the desire to date go through all that crap. I like being in a relationship. But I don’t like being in a tortured one.

The issue I am struggling with now is how differently I am seeing my wife now. All of her faults are magnified in my mind. Everything that I just accepted because she was my wife and I made a commitment to her is now coming up for review in my mind. Her health problems. Her dietary issues. Her infertility (I wanted more children but came to accept that we would have only one). Even her appearance. Every wrinkle and flaw is standing out more now. The way she chews and coughs grates on me. I don’t feel the need or desire to be around her as much. She wants more hugs and affection and I give them reluctantly. Now I am being fake with her. I think I am pulling away from her to protect myself. But how can we reconcile if I do that? Do I even want to reconcile? I think to myself constantly that I could find someone so much better. And that is the fatal flaw any relationship. There is always (in my opinion) someone better. But at some point you decide to make a life with one person.

But why shouldn't I dump this woman who lied to me and cheated on me and disrespected me for a newer, shinier model? Someone without all the baggage and issues that she has? I know everyone (especially me) has baggage, but these are the things I have been thinking about lately.

I don’t know what to do with these thoughts. These ideas make any chance of R half-hearted and a half hearted R is doomed and a waste of time as you guys know.

But that is what is going on with me. What about her? I have to give her some credit. She has been working hard. She wakes before me and goes to bed after me and is working almost constantly. For our new house, for my business. She has been getting a lot of stuff done. And she interviewed and got a job which starts next week. Go figure. I can’t wait until she sees her first paycheck to see how little she has earned. She has no fucking idea how hard it is to earn money as I have been supporting her lazy ass for years now.

She is going to IC and it seems like she is trying to be a better person. But I don’t know this woman anymore so I can’t be sure of anything.

She mostly tells me where she is and what she is doing if I ask. I don’t think she is still in contact with OM or gogirls, but I could be wrong.

And I can’t get over not being able to trust her. She went out the other night to get some groceries late at night. She was pretty insistent on it. So I facetimed with her. And she was in fact getting groceries. I can’t live like this. Worrying that she is going to meet up with someone or get back in touch with the gogirls. I get worked up (in my mind) about the most innocuous things. She is watching a video on her phone and laughing and I think she is texting someone. She is in another room for an extended period and I think she is up to something. That is just it, I always think she is “up to something”. What? I don’t know.

She has really not done anything overtly for me to freak out about lately. Christmas happened. New Years was no big deal. Overall I think she has been doing the right thing. But I am always paranoid that something is going to happen. That I will find her texting or talking to something and think she is scheming. I never used to view her this way. Remember, I loved this woman and trusted her implicitly. I feel so differently now. Sometimes I think those feelings of love are coming back. But mostly I feel neutral towards her. Sometimes I feel disgust or pity or rage.

I certainly don't do the nice little things I used to do anymore. Hold doors, lift heavy things, go the “extra mile”. A heavy box needs to be moved upstairs? Ok, don’t hurt your back. It sounds mean and it is mean. But I don’t really care and that is a problem.

I am not cruel to her and I try not to be a jerk. But I am not nice in the way I used to be. My behavior toward her is not cold but cool. On occasion I am cuddly and loving, but mostly its about business. I don’t think this is sustainable for either of us. Is this something that I will snap out of someday or is there a gradual thawing and warming into real reconciliation?

As far as MC goes, we have not gone in several weeks because of the holidays but go again next week.

I am not unhappy but I am not happy. I don’t have interest in much. I am finally sleeping well. My passion for work has diminished significantly. I care a lot less about it. That is probably a very good thing. I am more detached from my job. I don’t think I’m depressed. The ups and downs are still there but the amplitude of those mood swings is much smaller.

And Crushed7 you are so correct. I think I fit the “Nice Guy” mold so well. It is really frightening that I am a “type”. “Nice Guy” love is indeed very inauthentic. Giving to get. And then being upset when you don’t get in the way you expect to. My wounds are very deep as well. And the sad thing is that my behavior and expectations seem so normal to me. I’m afraid I don’t know how to be authentic, how to love, or how to be loved. I need to do a lot of introspection and undergo a lot of therapy. My next read is the book about codependency. My IC is good but I don’t think he understands this “nice guy” business and makes light of it. So I think I am going to need to find another therapist.

Thanks for the advice Changemaker. I am getting off my ass and out there more. My goal is one friendship this year. A real one. I think I can do it.

Finally, should I move to another forum out of respect for the other newcomers to SI or keep posting here?

I wish all of you wonderful people a happy, healthy, prosperous, and peaceful 2017.

Sometimes the infidelity is just too much for the BS to come back from. It's a total deal breaker.

But, because of the emotional roller coaster, you might be done one day and want to R the next. As long as she's doing the right things, that's why we say to wait six months to really figure out what you want.

All that said, you know when you're done. You just know.

Good luck.

Thank you Grizz for the update. Now I do not have to write mine.

Post in any forum you want, Griz, but your on-going story and updates are IMO very helpful for this forum. If you want to start a different topic, then figure out where you think it would be most helpful, and post it there.

Listen. You registered in October 2016 and if I remember correctly, your DDay wasn't too far off of that date. It's only been three months. I know that it seems like it's been three bleeping decades, but three months is far too soon to expect that you are out of the trauma. Heck, you're the equivalent of a burn patient, or someone who shattered his pelvis! You're still in the healing and pain mode, and rightfully so. Yeah, at some point, you're going to have to work on attaching again, if it's possible for you, but right now, you need to do what you need to do to help you get healthy again. And frankly, it's not "good" for your WW to be given too much grace at this time. She purposefully shoved you over a log so you shattered your pelvis. You're just at the stage of trying to see if you can manage crutches while on heavy-duty painkillers. It's far too early to forgive the wanton cruelty that put you into that hospital bed. She needs to prove, with her actions, over a LONG period of time, that she can be a safe partner for you, before you can even think about forgiveness or reconciling. She's still not safe for you right now, although it sounds like she's making some effort. I'd be more impressed if she didn't play the misery card by texting and nagging at you, when you're away visiting relatives with your DS.

BTW, if you can, though, try to enjoy the times when there is peace and harmony in the house. It's OK to just enjoy the minute. And it will be a minute at a time, at first, because you're still hyperaware. To every stimulus or danger, no matter if it's true danger or not. That's normal. But what you should hopefully see at some point, is that the times when there is peace and harmony will increase, as your hyperawareness goes down. That's a good thing, as long as neither of you are rugsweeping. You need those moments of contentment, of peace, to heal as well. (((hugs)))