SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

cheaters almost never use condoms. and they all lie and say they do. this is a top 5 lie of cheaters.

I told her maybe she should go stay with her parents while the divorce is going forward. Told her it's up to her to do anything she can for us to reconcile, I've done all I could. If she wants this she has to make it work. Her parents don't want her at their house.

So her parents don't want her either? Do you think it's out of shame for what she did to their beloved son in law? or are they just distant parents that don't want to take their daughter back in?

With limited options, this can be an opportunity for divorced douche to swoop in as her savior. I'm sure he's looking for a mom figure for when he gets the kids.

Pushing her toward him could be a way to break any lasting resistance. Force her to see what she was really getting herself into.

GTR: Why don't you go stay with your divorced douche. You can be a happy family with his kids.

Mrs GTR: But I don't want to be with him. I want to be with you.

GTR: Remember how you said you were confused. How I practically was begging you to stop but you kept texting him in my face. Now you expect me to believe you after all these lies.

Mrs GTR: I know I was wrong. I made a mistake. I'll do anything to fix it.

GTR: A mistake? The mistake was me believing you couldn't betray me like that.

I really see nothing new here.

Just lip service.

Buyer's remorse, maybe. But I seriously doubt the affair has ended. Seriously doubt they are not in regular contact.

This is not rocket science. If you were in her shoes, if you were told you have to prove it, what would you do? If you were told no marriage until you lose the job? Would you quit that day? Your spouse, whom you love over any other person? This didn't happen. She's hedging her bets. Is that a strong love?

Granted, she cheated, so it's like, strong love, duh? But believe it or not, there are some cheaters who really do want their marriages, just wanted some outside feelings, never planned to leave the marriage, liked the affair partner enough, but not wanted to be as "soulmates." Those are the ones you see hyperventilating, snot-blowing, please don't leave me, I'll do whatever you ask, and then they actually do it right away.

Try to follow this - where is this marriage going to go if you stay? I wish I could say that kids vs. no kids makes no difference, but you know what - I was married for a number of years before I had kids, and I was married with kids, and it does make a difference, at least for me. You have one or more other lives, they're going to be affected, and maybe more importantly, you're relationship with your kids are going to be adjusted somewhat.

Now you have no kids. Do you want some? When? Tell me if I get it wrong, but didn't she tell you she thought she got married too soon, implying she had to sow her oats? And she "had feelings" (that means "I am 'in love' with him" in cheater-speak) for him? Now you told her she won't have a chance with you with her still in the job, and has she quit? Has she gone to see an employment agency? Got her resume together? Looking for other jobs? Has she mentioned that to you? If she wanted you, wouldn't one of those things be something she would have told you by now? Or does she think she can do it whenever she gets around to it, and you will be waiting?

You're doing OK. Just watch her behavior - what she does and what she does not do.

wk55hn nailed it. Run !!! Unless she quits her job tomorrow.

For oral they didn't use condoms according to her. But for the sex they did and I do believe her on the sex part. My wife may have betrayed me in the worst way I could ever imagine, but she's not mentally stupid. I know for a fact she wouldn't have sex with this guy without protection as she would not have kids with a man she wasn't married to. When it comes to stuff like that she's rational, it would mess up everything for her and as you can see she's been all about herself this affair.

Sorry, but it is highly unlikely they used a condom. She was acting on her animal urges, not on her logic. That animal urge is the urge to collect different man's sperm to give her children diverse genetic background (read sperm Wars). Using a condom would defeat the whole biological purpose of having an affair--her subconscious was trying to get her pregnant. Rates of conception are far higher with affair sex than regular sex, because the body conditions itself to maximize the likelihood of pregnancy, at least according to academics cited in that book.

Sorry, but it is highly unlikely they used a condom. She was acting on her animal urges, not on her logic. That animal urge is the urge to collect different man's sperm to give her children diverse genetic background (read sperm Wars).

That actually is a comment that serves no purpose to this conversation. You have no idea if they used a condom or not.

If he affair was all about getting pregnant by the OM than yes, your comment might make sense, otherwise, it is conjecture at the most.

Well condom or not: Oral = STD's Easy Peasy. Let's start with Herpes?

Until something is figured out with you and her, confronting the OM seems like a waste of energy and could become a problem.

She broke vows and lied to you but he has no loyalty to you , he can say anything he wants and you won;t know if it the truth or a lie. He could say the screwed 20 times, she chased him, maybe she did but will you rely on him to tell you anything worthwhile?

The affair didn;t take place when he conked her on the head and took her back to his cave, two willing parties were involved and you should only deal with her.

OTOH if you are sure she is NC and trying to save the M but he is coming around or contacting her then think about shutting him down. just don;t go to jail.

[This message edited by MickeyBill2016 at 1:42 AM, January 18th (Wednesday)]

STD from unprotected oral sex is a real risk. As one who was made seriously ill by this route, I can't emphasize strongly enough the need for testing for both of you. This includes the serial follow-up most infectious disease docs recommend (which may extend for up to 2 years after last contact with OM, depending on assessed risk factors), and using condoms for ALL contact until you get the all clear after all testing.

Keep in mind that infections that originate orally can be transferred anywhere contact occurs. For me, this was a blessing. I was very, very ill until an organism (which caused me to lose my voice 100%—for over a year—and caused a violent productive cough that both caused me to drown in secretions when I laid down and to crack ribs from coughing) finally manifested as a vaginal infection apparent on Pap.

So don't minimize failure to use condoms during any sex act or give accolades for use during vaginal penetration; the lack of use during oral = vaginal exposure, eventually.

GTR:

From her story the sexual encounters on break happened twice with kissing and oral and the two days of doing everything, January 2nd and 3rd.

In the heat of an affair, waywards lose their mind and self control. The whole thrill of sneaking around, being so naughty is not only intoxicating, it is addictive. Do you really believe a woman that's willing to blow a guy in his car will do it only twice over a couple of months? More like twice a week or more.

Many have described waywards as people who have become possessed. They say and do things that are so far from norm of what you've known them to be over the years.

I seriously doubt the affair has ended. Seriously doubt they are not in regular contact.

I agree with WK55hn that you need to verify what type of contact she's having with divorced douche. Don't believe that she's going NC. They are still definitely in contact and may be talking about laying low for a while. Douche will try real hard to reel her back in.

French123 said:

Sorry, but it is highly unlikely they used a condom. She was acting on her animal urges, not on her logic. That animal urge is the urge to collect different man's sperm to give her children diverse genetic background (read sperm Wars). Using a condom would defeat the whole biological purpose of having an affair--her subconscious was trying to get her pregnant. Rates of conception are far higher with affair sex than regular sex, because the body conditions itself to maximize the likelihood of pregnancy, at least according to academics cited in that book.

This is an interesting concept and something that GTR should think about. Did she subconsciously want to get pregnant? You said you were talking about having kids. Could she have thought it was just that, talk?

She gravitated to a guy who's proven to be able to give a woman kids. In the early 30s, woman have a spike in their sex drive meant to get them to have kids just before their fertility takes a sharp dive. All of these things are at the animal brain not the logical thinking part.

Do you think that she thought you were never going to want kids and felt it was time to move on?

If she wants to make babies with that stupid piece of shit that's fine. I am starting to see that I can do better. I love her still and that probably won't change for awhile. She asked me if I would prefer her to put her notice in first or just quit her job. Someone here also suggested me writing a list of what she needs to do if she wants to reconcile. Well I made her write the list. She told me she'll quit her job and if I want to move forward with the divorce she will not ask for spousal support or anything because she knows this is her fault.

I've realized it's not even the sex I feel betrayed about the most. It's the emotional bond me and her shared that was stronger than any other bond I have ever felt. I feel sad, and I don't know what to do. I want to reconcile and also divorce.

Patience, brother.

Often in situations such as these, the best thing you can do is just to simply be still. I know it feels like you have to do something, and the urge to do so is strong. But keep in mind that doing anything to simply stifle them may cause you take the wrong course of action.

At this point, you may want to follow the example that Walloped and others have done by getting away for a week, or at least a few days. Go do something you love without your WW being present. Take that opportunity to clear your head and decide what you really want to do.

[This message edited by farsidejunky at 8:04 AM, January 17th (Tuesday)]

She asked me if I would prefer her to put her notice in first or just quit her job

.

If I were on her shoes and trying to save my marriage I will just quit the job, prioritize my BS feelings. If she has to ask IMO you know all you need to know.

You can not R with a WS that is not willing to do what it takes and not have the initiative to do it. The job thing is a great example, she should have quit her job on DDay

Good luck

She's saying what you want to hear. Not unusual at all. It's easy for her, habit even to just lie.

Wait until you start to see actions from her. Like actually quitting her job. Then you can stop and consider if R is even in the realm of possibility.

Do not fall into the hopeful BS trap of words without action. It's a sad and lonely place.

I agree she should have quit the same day. That is putting action to her words. Only if she completely submits herself and cleaves to you,will you be able feel comfortable to try to R.

She shouldn't concern herself with career or any other concern, just a complete drive to win your forgiveness. Anything short of that is not sincere.

ManualGTR:

Let me preface what I am about to say by telling you that I am incredibly hard on waywards. That said, when someone tells you it should be instinctive for her to just "do", they are frequently wrong.

Right now, your WW is likely scared to make a move. We already know she is weak willed and lacking in the character department. This is leading her to be frozen; afraid to move as it may be the wrong one; afraid to stay still because she knows she has to move; paralyzed.

When a wayward begins to turn away, and you are entertaining even the slightest notion of reconciliation, you need to make room for her to follow you. She will need leadership. She will need clear standards for which she can adhere. You are essentially training her to understand your boundaries.

Yes, it all seems silly. Yes, it should be intuitive. However, if you do enough reading on infidelity at this and other sites, you will see that (at best) 1 of 50 knows instinctively what to do to help their BS heal. Most of them are so lost, so flooded with guilt, and suffering from toxic shame, that they simply have no idea what to do.

All of this is moot if you are going to kick her to the curb. Frankly, you have more than enough reason to do so, and with not having any children, that would by my course of action without hesitation.

However, you are not there yet. It is clear to me you would like reconciliation even if the thought of doing so churns your guts. With that being the case, you are going to need to understand that the BS in all likelihood will have to lead the reconciliation.

Take care, brother.

I made her write the list.

YES! I agree that the Wayward should tell the BS what they're gonna do - NOT the other way around!

She told me she'll quit her job and if I want to move forward with the divorce she will not ask for spousal support or anything because she knows this is her fault.

I think you should capitalize on this right now. You can always re-marry later if you like. Protect yourself. Get her to sign off while her guilt is still hot, because it will cool eventually. Tell her it's only symbolic - that you have to end the poisoned marriage so the two of you can start a new one. I am not ashamed to admit that I heavily manipulated my XWW into a settlement that favoured me. I told her a hundred times that we'd get back together - and never meant it once.

Manualgtr

What is it you want?

That is the million-dollar question.

Some will argue that you don’t need to decide right now if you want to R or D but I want to counter that. To me marriage is like a switch – it’s on or off. You can’t be partially married. Deciding not to decide IMHO is commitment to a status quo. To me that’s not acceptable.

But even if you decide one or the other than what you decide is only a decision. You can change your mind. You can decide to divorce and proceed along that route and IF you change your mind then that’s fine. Same with reconciliation. You can decide you want a shot at that and try.

Granted your results won’t be good if you constantly switch, but I strongly encourage you to think what you want because then we can offer the best path to that destination.

Like demanding she quit her job. If you don’t want this marriage, then her being unemployed is not to your advantage. Pressing that point without having at least some desire to reconcile would be a waste of time.

Possibly the same with a detailed timeline. You already know enough to decide if it’s a deal-breaker. If you are determined to divorce, then a detailed timeline isn’t really going to do any good. It’s not as if you can flip an off-switch more off.

However, If you entertain any hope of R, then both the above are necessary.

I suggest you contemplate and then share with us what you want – Realistically where do you want to be 6 months from now.

If it’s R, then list what you think you need for that to be possible. Maybe 10 items to begin with. We can work with you from that.

BTW – Her offer for no spousal support…

Correct me if I’m wrong but you have been married for 7 years and don’t have children. Correct?

She has a job and is fully capable of earing an income. Correct?

The house is easy: Calculate the market-value, subtract all debt. That gives you a number. If positive add it to whatever savings you have. If negative add it from whatever debt you have. Add value of all cars minus possible car-loans.

Subtract debt from assets/savings, divide by 2 and there you have the baseline to negotiate from.

She probably has minimal – IF ANY – right of spousal support so her offer is totally unrealistic and shows she’s still in la-la fantasy-land of infidelity.

THIS is how you deal with infidelity: By making it REAL. By focusing on reality and making the options based on cold facts and reality.

I'm confused, when you discovered the affair she reacted by, 48 hours later, meeting him to have sex.

You serve her papers and now she's "remorseful". I certainly do no want to position this as a no-win situation, but a short time ago he was literally so important to her that she was willing to rub your nose in it, and now BLAM, it's all changed. My gut is that this is lip service, people don't just change automagically, though you putting the burden on her is the correct way to go about things.

You're at the point where people get confused about if they should R or D. My (strong) recommendation is to check off date on your calendar, 60 days perhaps, and continue with the D full steam until then. The first benefit of this is you'll see how she really thinks of you even when there is no to little hope of keeping the marriage --- full remorse happens between a couple because of respect, not to "save". Secondly, it will allow you some time to sort out your head.

As a sidebar to all of this, you should be pulling away. Codependence and intertia are really your two biggest enemies right now. They need to be abstracted away.