SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Nothing new, I did get info right after confronting her. It was more than I really wanted to know, but at the same time I am quite certain that there cannot be much more.

But you guys were right. At first you are protected by the initial shock and later on anger, self-loathing and all the nasty thoughts roll in like a thunderstorm. Between the storm fronts is actually quite nice, but the storms are pretty severe.

More details is good, even though it's hell emotionally. I was worried you'd had another D-Day!

I have been pretty mean to her on occasion since D-day.

Dude... there were times when I seriously ripped my FWW to emotional shreds while never once blinking an eye. Rage was just another lose screw as those hinges came flying off. It happens.

Don't be too hard on yourself. She deserves to every ounce of that anger. She's earned it. If it gets to be a serious problem for you, seek out an IC. Been there, done that, worth it.

I know the anger is justified, but at the same time I'm trying not to become a manipulating dick. I don't see much value in trying to manipulate my wife to stay married/stay in relationship with me if it's just me forcing her to stay.

She does keep telling me that she loves me and wants to work on re-building our marriage.

She has been great for the last weeks. Or she was quite a mess at first and somehow, with the protection of shock, I was able to listen and "support" her without getting too excited. Now that I've had some rough times, she's been really good. I'm sure it's not fun dealing with me when I wrap myself in my self-pity pain-blanket.

[This message edited by BusterMcBust at 3:26 PM, May 30th (Tuesday)]

Don't chastise yourself. It's unnecessary. When you get angry or fall down the rabbit hole, asking her to confront and deal with your pain and anguish, the fallout from her affair, isn't being a "manipulative dick." It's the same with wrapping yourself up in your "self-pity pain-blanket." Again, man, we all feel this way. It hurts! It hurt unlike anything I've ever known. There were times I seriously lost my shit, I was so fucking angry at my wife. And then there were times I was a wasted heap of a sobbing mess on the shower floor. Sometimes that shit happened in the same day. Don't be too hard on yourself.

She does keep telling me that she loves me and wants to work on re-building our marriage.

That's all well and good. I once worked at a restaurant, long ago, that burned to the ground one night. It was a total loss. Nothing was left but smoldering ashes and barely recognizable bits and pieces of flotsam and jetsam. All of that had to be removed and cleared. The entire foundation had to be ripped up. When it was all said and done, there was nothing left but a dirt lot amid the surrounding buildings. There was no indication, but memory and photos, that the restaurant had ever existed.

It was rebuilt. The site was inspected and approved. The plans were inspected and approved. Everyone had their 2c to throw in. A new foundation was poured. New walls constructed, electrical, plumbing, gas... an entirely new building.

Right now, you're still watching the flames. That vision of a new marriage maybe a grand vision, but you've got a long way to go before you know whether or not your WW is capable of clear away all the flotsam and jetsam she created.

Maybe I don't like the "new restaurant", I don't know that yet, but I would like to find out. Assuming there will be a "new restaurant".

Also, talked to a lawyer. Legislation in our area has an option for immediate divorce in case of adultery, but one main requirement is immediate separation after discovery. The lawyer I talked to advised that he is not aware of any precedent that would allow immediate divorce for example after living together one month after discovery. So the option is one year separation before divorce could be granted. Wish for separation must be clearly communicated by one or both parties. Obviously if only one party communicates his/her wish for separation, courts will rule accordingly.

I have to say that the D side of the fence doesn't look that green right now.

[This message edited by BusterMcBust at 9:05 AM, May 31st (Wednesday)]

Another weekend went by. We had really good time, didn't get much done, but had really good time together and with the kids. My wife behaves different, nicer and shows more affection, and I respond in likewise manner. I don't mind this at all.

Our discussions have been better as well. Less crying at least.

Not much to update really, other than things seem to be going quite well right now.

[This message edited by BusterMcBust at 10:32 AM, June 5th (Monday)]

Glad to hear that. Baby steps huh.

Are you both in IC? Eventually MC?

Do you have a plan in place for her to convince you she's a committed safe partner?

Keep up the hard work.

I had couple of IC sessions...almost total waste of my time and money (if not total waste of time and money). She hasn't had any IC yet. Right now I'm really skeptical about MC and IC unless we find a counselor that we find to be somewhat OK. I don't want to keep throwing money away in pursuit of counselor who could bring something valuable to the table. Having said that, we'll probably take another stab at finding a good counselor later with MC. I don't think I'm ready for MC yet anyway.

We have talked quite a bit about how she can become a safe wife again. I don't think this is a "final version" yet. I have taken the approach of letting her tell me what she will do instead of me telling what I want to hear and what I wish her to do.

I'm trying not to become a manipulating dick.

To some extent, yes, you do. She has a lot of ground to make up, and it is your option to allow her to do that.

Reverting back to the weak, nice guy, everything is alright is a recipe for disaster, no matter how much you want this to have never happened.

I did happen, and you can't treat this like she had a fender bender in the WalMart parking lot.

For the next year, you need to make sure she understands that D is not off the table, she has a lot of work to do.

twisted Appreciate your advise, as always. I'm OK being a dick, but I do not want to force her or try to manipulate her to stay in a relationship with me. She will have to be all in by her own accord.

I've told her that I'm not afraid of divorce. I've also made it very clear that I have no intentions to stay in a relationship that is not working. And I don't want to stay in a relationship with somebody who doesn't love me.

Just out of curiosity - aren't you afraid you'll end up rug sweeping the entire thing and going through false R?

I ask because I struggle with similar issues - WH is a lot nicer, patient, does even more than he used to (that wasn't too little to begin with), is more active with the kids, asks me if I want to talk, we had a great weekend, etc. But I cannot begin to explain how much this 'pretend normalcy' is bugging me. I have this intense fear of rug sweeping. Of faking everything until I can no longer make the difference between what is real and what is fake. I also struggle with him not being really 'punished'. Life goes on as it always did and nothing much has changed for him. Sure, he is in IC and we are giving MC a try and he claims to be thinking and reading and has even opened up a bit.

You don't worry about not really dealing with the A intensely and urgently? Do you think what you are seeing is true remorse and contrition?

Of course I am afraid of rug sweeping. I have to be very careful not to slip into "faked normalcy". I just have to get some normal life going for the kids and for my work.

Talked to her last night to explain some of my feelings of being robbed of so many "things". I didn't see it at first, but many of the words that I used to compliment her before have been stolen from me as the POSOM used many of those same words and now I feel like they have lost quite a bit of their significance. Sure she is saying that she doesn't deserve any compliments and nice words and nice gestures. Maybe she doesn't deserve them, but I want to give the compliments when I feel like it. But now calling her for example beautiful doesn't have the same punch as before as somebody stole and abused it.

I also explained that his attempts to belittle our marriage to sway her opinion on our relationship and marriage are unforgettable assaults on our kids, on our marriage, on me and on her. It's also unfortunate that she had deleted those emails well before D-day. Now I have only her word that she never talked down on me or on our marriage. It's some type of consolation in a situation where me and our marriage were brutally assaulted and abused.

Stuff...

Get out a thesaurus and create a new vocabulary for your M. He can't have used Every word in there. It might even be a bonding activity.

One question. Early on you said this.

Opportunity presents itself and she gives in to excitement.

What work has she done to ensure that the next man to hit on her won't get the same reception. She needs real tools to know how to speak plainly to those that hit on her. She may not even be someone that can tell who is hitting on her.

What work has she done to ensure that the next man to hit on her won't get the same reception. She needs real tools to know how to speak plainly to those that hit on her. She may not even be someone that can tell who is hitting on her.

So far just set herself boundaries. The biggest risk she sees, and I tend to agree, are friendships with opposite sex. She has agreed to not meet with any male alone, even if it's work lunch. She wants to distance herself from all men that are not close family even if it might be overkill. I think becoming "friends" with opposite sex is the risk...I know it would be a risk for me.

Today is a day that I'm considering separation and 180. I know she thinks that she is trying, but I don't know if she is trying hard enough for me. It appears that the effort she put in to the affair and OM for months was greater than what I'm getting. I did stop communicating my wants and needs to see what she can come up on her own and so far it's not really worth mentioning. Last thing I asked from her was on Sunday with no response so far. Big thing holding me back from separation and 180 are the kids. Both of them have birthdays coming up and I would like to be there for them. And apartments rents for anything available in the market are pretty damn high...hard to believe in this market, about twice as much compared to last time I was renting.

I need to try to do something about my hurt.

It appears that the effort she put in to the affair and OM for months was greater than what I'm getting.

This is almost exactly word for word what I told my fWW during our early discussions...it clearly shocked her that I would see that, but it woke her up when I vocalized it.

[This message edited by OrdinaryDude at 9:13 AM, June 8th (Thursday)]

Your paranoia coming in and out. You having good days and bad days. This is all because you are ostensibly trying to reconcile on a bed of something other than trust.

Saying stuff like (paraphrasing) "Well I asked her, she said she hasn't, but I don't know if I can believe her"only HURTS reconciliation. The further you get into crapville the further your body will give into the "flight" response of "fight or flight".

While you are still in this state of mind you need to throw a little "fight" at it. Use your anger to fuel this. The fight is taking a few steps to create a bedrock of trust.

1. Expose to her boyfriend's spouse. The best tool at your disposal PERIOD. Read through every single thread here. Seriously, take 72 hours off from work if you don't believe me. Try to identify the % of successful reconciliations that didn't include exposure as a component. THERE ARE FIFTY THOUSAND PEOPLE HERE WHO CAN ATTEST TO THE NECESSITY OF THIS. We want you to have a fighting chance to make your own R or D decision. By not taking this step it removes the R option for you. We just want to build you to a place of empowerment where you can make this decision.

2. Ask her for a full written timeline of the affair. Like down to what she was wearing when she first kissed him. Once you have it tell her that you have scheduled a polygraph to see if she was truthful and inclusive. The look on her face at that instant will tell you everything that you need to know.

We are fighting for you,and want to see you fight to get yourself into an awesome place (relatively speaking of course, your situation is anything but awesome)

Buster,

These are the horrible mood swings that go with the territory. Please do not do or say anything rash while you are in the grip of a particular feeling. I know it is hard to hold back, but seriously, we all know it is never a good idea to say things while drunk or angry. The same thing goes for when we are in pain. Whatever you are thinking about, give it a few days and then see if you feel the same.

Going beyond that, have you considered taking time to write down all of the things that are making the process hard for you, and then talking through them with your wife. Obviously, that does not 'fix' them immediately, some things may always hurt, but if you can communicate with your wife the things that you are struggling with, it can give her some ideas about what you need and what she can do to help you heal. We want our waywards to make an effort and do effective stuff, but as annoyed as we may be with them, we have to be fair and acknowledge that they are not mind readers. Sometimes we say we need this, or we need that, but we don't explain why. If you actually explain the things that keep you awake at night, or make you feel like you want to punch the wall, it should give your wife more idea about what she can do to try and help.