SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

When we left my wife had that flip smirky attitude.

That flippant attitude alone would do it for me. MC is great when the time is right... that being when the W is being contrite. By going to a MC too soon all that is going to happen is having your gonads handed back to you in a guppy bag.

Your wife is playing games with you. She plans on going on this trip hell or high water. You have a ton of circumstantial evidence. Don't forget that criminals get convicted on circumstantial evidence all the time. If I had a little money I would call a P.I. and have her followed when she gets to her destination. Two can play this game. I agree with the others, if she goes on this trip you will regret it. You may not be able to stop it... but you sure can get some evidence one way or other.

'You have to be willing to lose the marriage in order to save it'

I know it's not that simple, it never is.But are you just gonna let your wife mock and cheat on you, because divorce is hard?

[This message edited by xrnpc at 3:18 PM, May 31st (Wednesday)]

This is why so many here advise against MC when you're in the middle of an affair shitstorm.

Dude, do not go back to this MC. A so-called professional is validating her secretive extra-marital relationship.

Lets face it. She was deep in an EA with this guy. Maybe more. Stand up and make it clear that you will not be in a marriage that includes this 'friendship'. It is not 'just like' one of her girlfriends. It was daily and it was secret and it was someone she used to be in love with. Not an appropriate 'friend' for a wife to have regular private contact with.

Meanwhile she has no concern that you aren't okay with it. This is not about you trying to control her. This is about wedding vows and the opposite sex relationship boundaries that go with them.

Stand firm, stand strong.

I'm thinking hiring a PI in the city of this girls weekend would be in order.

It's evidence you're after.

You lost the VAR, in one day?

Do you think she is on this site reading your posts. How do you access this site, a shared computer?

She seems to be one step ahead of you.

Semen test kits for when she gets home.

[This message edited by twisted at 3:31 PM, May 31st (Wednesday)]

The therapist obviously is incompetent and has no idea how to work through the issue of reasonable marital boundaries. There are a lot of crappy ones out there. I dealt with one myself.

Here's what I can tell you from experience. Her continuous contact with this opposite sex "friend" is not in any way appropriate. Your expectation for her to completely stop contact is entirely reasonable. You don't need a counselor to confirm that for you.

You will be making a mistake of you continue to accept this behavior from her. Now is the time to find out if she values her man friend over her husband.

But here's the thing. You have got to be willing to risk your marriage by putting your foot down unapologeticly. If she's willing to lose her husband over this, what is your marriage really worth?

619,

I do not know what the extent of your attachment to WW. But she is not showing you any respect. Smirk means she does not care either she is in real world or in fog. Ask her whether the POS and WW met during the last 8 years which is possible. Again tell het friend they are going to be partners in infidelity.

Hope you are not losing your other important things like you job. Best response is to live better. You allowed this to grow in to tree over 2.5 years. take stern actions. This is an exit affair. Call POS also and let him have it He is a low life POS do not let him have a free ride. Is BIL cooperating with you.

If she is acting this way you have to act forceful. Interacting with her like a loved one make you weak her in her foggy mind and even she may be enjoying it sadistically.

No need to spend all this emotional energy and money chasing her.

No need to spend your emotional energy and time chasing her. Te;; her if she go without you it would be the end. Also demand that she stop all contacts with POS. married women normally do not have male friends who they chat everyday.

Develop even better bonding with kids. This is as a way of challenging her cocky attitude about full custody. Tell her she is a dishonest person if she married you while having feelings for POS. I think they have been in contact for a longtime and may have decided everything is now ready to get together

[This message edited by goalong at 3:51 PM, May 31st (Wednesday)]

IIT,

Well, that session does sound very one-sided. There are always two sides to every problem, and while the counsellor took your wife’s side, I think you can counter a lot of that if you have another session with the same person. You just need to be prepared. It can sometimes be hard to say exactly what you want to say when things are sprung on you, so next time I think you need to have something written, and request that you read through it so that your concerns and unhappiness are not ignored, as they were in the first session.

If I were writing such a response for you, it would run:

My wife said she feels I am trying to control her. I think that is totally unfounded. She spends all day, every day, at home, free as a breeze to do what she wants, talk to whoever she wants, phone whoever she wants, email whoever she wants. And she does. Where is the control?

This is not about control. This is about my love for my wife, my love of my family, and my love of my children, and the threat that I see coming from the amount of contact my wife is having with a former lover that she had a four-year relationship with. If you see those concerns as invalid or illegitimate, then so be it. Condemn me and call my concerns a bad thing. I guess that is what good counselling is all about. Thank you for your help, understanding, and sensitivity.

Sorry. Just venting. Cannot believe the sh*t that was said at that session.

[This message edited by M1965 at 3:58 PM, May 31st (Wednesday)]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Exactly this. Although I think a simpler, more specific explanation to your wife is really all that is required.

I haven't posted since the very first page of your thread and, frankly, I'm a bit amazed that you've been willing to allow this situation to continue. What do I mean by you "allowing" it? Well, there comes a point where you need to stand up for yourself.

I really do believe that all is required here is to say, "I'm not comfortable with your friendship with this guy. It's me or him."

To me a wife that is willing to lose her marriage over a friend (ANY friend, btw) doesn't value the marriage. It's as simple as that.

Your wife is actively choosing to maintain a friendship that is clearly hurting you and your marriage. The simple fact that she's unwilling to take any steps forward - regardless of any infidelity - is unacceptable.

I don't see the point in ANY of the typical "discovery" vehicles: the VAR, a PI, etc. Why bother? The key here is that your wife doesn't respect you or your marriage and is willing to toss it aside to maintain a relationship, of whatever type, with an ex. It's just totally unacceptable.

Seriously, dude - I would simply say that to your wife and let her know that since she values your marriage so little she can go on all the trips she wants. She can be friends with whoever she wants. But not as your wife. Give her the parameters that YOU need to feel safe and if she argues, or says your controlling, or gives you any message other than "I will help you through this", then the marriage is over.

The cheating is really secondary at this point.

I preface this statement with the obvious fact that I'm not there and don't see all the things going on, I only know what you have told us.

With that in mind I will say that it isn't up to you to learn how to tolerate her perceived infidelities, it is up to her to reassure you that the marriage is a safe place for you.

It doesn't really matter if your suspicions are true, your feeling are true to you and her failure to have any interest in addressing those feelings says volumes about her feelings towards you and your position in her life.

I think your wife is on to this site. I know my laptop and phone are connected, things I search or sites I use are "shared" across the two.

Whatever - she does think she is in control, she has disrespected you and your feelings.

You say there is no money for a lawyer, borrow it. Give her the papers. Start the 180, only talk to her about the kids or house.

Probably been cheating for years

That is the worst therapist in the world. IMO you should explain to your wife that you are not ok with her talking with her ex-lovrr on a daily basis and that she keeps their texts private. She needs to pick you or him.

The OM is an ex for a reason. He didn't want her as an alcoholic with deep psychological problems, and he won't want her as a middle aged woman with four kids who's dumping all over her family. You are the one holding this affair together. If she shows up at his door step as a single woman, he will show his true colors. As long as she's married to you, he gets free sex without having to provide any of the support that you already provide for her.

At the end of the day, her life after marriage is as gruesome, for lack of a better term, as yours. The comforts of her marriage to you affords her the leisure of part time work, and daily conversations with the om, which is nothing more than reliving a high school fantasy and hoping for a different outcome. She seems pretty confident that she can give the OM another shot at her and still have you as the fall back option if the OM just wants sex and nothing more. She just may believe that she can have her OM and the marriage.

The child support threat shows her willingness to use the system against you. That includes domestic violence allegations, fraudulent restraining orders in case she wants you out of the house so she can do as she pleases while you pay the bills.

If you show a willingness to leave the marriage the fantasy is over. You would have removed the fence and she has to land on one side or the other.

I agree that you don't need to prove anything. It's not a people's Court case. If you are convinced that's all you need.

Your wife is certain that she has control of you. She believes she has you over a barrel and there is nothing you can do. Until you show her otherwise she is going to continue to do as she pleases, without regard to your feelings, and smile as she does so. I do not know what your temperament is so I can only tell you what I would do. As I have said before, I had 2 careers in 45 years. Both were filled with danger and violence so in many incidents I don't really think like some people would. I would tell her that this is her friend and she can talk with him whenever she wants to. That you love her, trust her, and want to spend your life with her. But if anything other than friendship occurs between them, whether it is emotional, romantic, or physical you will (express will) find out about it. And then you will burn to the ground, her world, his world, your world and anyone else's world that is standing in the line of fire. That if your world is destroyed then everyone else involved will have their world destroyed also, no matter what it takes. That all you are asking of her is to have the wife and the life that you and her have enjoyed for many years before all this came into being.

If I said something like this everyone in my family would believe me. Would your wife believe you? I don't advise you to do this if you don't mean what you say. Words are no good unless you are willing to back them up. I do wish you well.

It is literally freaks me out to see how men act so fucking week I don't get it you better grow a pair balls.... I don't understand how a week a man can be never just let him have her she's has absolutely no attraction toward you... do you see what you're doing is the only thing you can do is give her to him. Here's something for you buddy

I wish I could claim credit for this masterpiece but I can't. It belongs to very wise member from another website. It should be etched in the minds of every man and woman who has been the victim on infidelity.

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,

let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,

"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,

and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,

wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?

Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.

A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?

To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?

What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?

They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,

The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.

You don't fight them on this issue.

You agree with their feelings,

they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",

you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",

you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.

I gave her an ultimatum last night. I told her she ends the friendship and cancels the trip or we start the process of separation. I guess I'm moving out this weekend. I'm broken. We literally do not have the money to support separate households, I don't have any family to stay with and none of my friends are in the position to let me stay with them. I sort of feel like it was an empty threat I'm not sure where I have to go and that is very depressing

I'm beginning to wonder if this situation isn't more serious than I thought. My WW is very well aware of our money situation and feels it's an acceptable trade off for her to be able to work part time. Not working full time is VERY important to her for a lot of reasons. I can't see her putting herself in a position that she would have to work more which makes me think she has some sort of a plan. I kind of wish I never opened this can of worms

It seems like she is having an affair, Why would she hide those things from you? why did she change the password? Trust you gut.

Time to devise an immediate plan.

Protect what ever assets you can, make arrangement for housing of some sort, check the bank accounts and credit cards, find out who's names are on them. Check all payments obligations like rent ( lease term?), utilities, etc. and prepare to get your name off of them once you find a place to stay. Who is keeping your current residence?

Transferring utilities to you a new place may keep you from having to put up additional deposits, but you need to beat her to the punch on that.

Think ahead, you've been behind this whole time. You need to get in front of this.

I think your wife is on to this site. I know my laptop and phone are connected, things I search or sites I use are "shared" across the two.

That's a very real possibility, check you settings for sharing with other computers and any email notifications. If you can't have somebody else check for you. How would she be accessing this site? Another computer? Her phone? Something fishy going on here. Find out what.

[This message edited by twisted at 9:08 AM, June 1st (Thursday)]

You had to issue an ultimatum and you have done the right thing. I agree with the poster who said that in your case the VR/PI are a waste of time - "him or me" answers the question.

My WS did a lot of things wrong when first discovered but for me her immediately answering the same ultimatum "you of course" was actually what saved the M.

You now need to do all the things you can to protect yourself, your health and your finances. She's in the FOG, she is hell bent on blowing this up and you know what, when she turns up all "single and real" he won't want to know because this is not the fantasy he bought into. All these APs are f*cking *rseholes and run a mile once real life shows up. And that's on her.

And finally, that MC is an idiot!