SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You would think looking as good as she does she would be more interested in sex we are never intimate anymore. Literally nothing since February. However she is buying lingerie and sexy underwear. It's never been worn the tags are still on.

So you haven't had sex with her since February, yet she is buying sexy lingerie that she says is to wear for your anniversary?

Bullshit.

Does that mean she plans now to have sex with you once a year on your anniversary?

Or she bought them to wear for her tryst with ex. She knows that and now you know it.

I think Bigger nailed it. All of the first part about the frog in the water is right on. But since she's now planning to fuck her ex-boyfriend during her trip, it is obvious she is well past just half-submerged in the hot water. She's in it up to her neck.

Lawyer up and FILE.

Frankly I'd do it BEFORE she leaves. Then let her know that this trip, and her subsequent daily "talks" with her friend and her texting with him will determine whether you continue with the divorce.

And also tell her that child support for four kids will be something you are willing to pay to avoid living in a marriage with three people in it.

The kids will grow up and child-support for them will be reduced as each leaves the nest until it's gone completely. In the meantime you will have a chance to find a woman who is totally committed to you.

Sorry it's. Even a busy few days. I can't figure out how to quote people so let me answer a few questions

Yes even tho it's long distance I'm pretty sure they talk daily as my son says she is on the phone everyday when they go to the park

I am sure he is divorced as I found his Facebook and his exs Facebook they are most def not together

Sadly I put a VAR in the car the next day it was gone.

I have talked to her s. It about boundaries with the on she still assures me that they are only friends. I tried talking to her mom who is fucking clueless and wants om to come and visit. I really feel like her family is zero help and seems to be supporting whatever this is with her ex

She did agree to counseling and we have our first appt next week. I guess that's something at this point she will not cancel the trip stating she won't let her friend down

thats not a good start about the var especially if nothing was said by your wife to you about it.

Does the txting and calling seem to much to be just friends

If the mother is showing no interest its probably best not to go there for advice as it may just create more angst at home

at this point she will not cancel the trip stating she won't let her friend down

What about letting her husband down? She doesn't seem to care about that at all.

[This message edited by nme1 at 1:04 AM, May 30th (Tuesday)]

The VAR disappears, she is planning a trip near the AP. And she is gaslighting you. You need to see a lawyer and start moving toward divorce. Come on man, it doesn't take a genius to see where this is heading. They are not just friends!!! Tell her if she goes, she will come home to DIVORCE papers! She thinks she can run over you, she thinks that you are weak. Prove her wrong! Show her you are not going to tolerate infidelity. Don't back down!!! Stay strong.

Disagree with long forgotten.

Don't warn. Just file. When she asks wtf tell her she chose to ha e a boyfriend and you aren't ok with this. Tell her if she convinces you she is NC with him, willing to be honest and transparent, willing to do the work to be a safe partner, and had remorse you might be persuaded to stop the process.

But you drew a line already and she bltzed through it. Drawing another line won't accomplish anything other than her blitzing through it again.

Filing might. So file. Expose. Do a 180. Shock and awe. Consequences are your only chance.

Maybe someone can give me so guidance on this. I want to see a lawyer. I want to serve her with papers but we literally have zero extra money. There is literally no money for lawyer visits and custody battles and 2 homes Saying we live paycheck to paycheck is an understatement. The only reason the trip is even happening is because her best friend'paid for everything ( now I'm not sure maybe OM paid for it). I feel so lost like she literally has me by the bills

Like a couple of the others your story is very similar to mine, only I was blindsided and didn't act, which I now regret hugely.

Phone, lingerie, lack of sex, him a recent divorcee - these are all individual red flags.

An ex-BF also allows things to go 0-60 quickly and over long-distance in a way that they would not with a new person.

In this case you are short on facts and high on anecdote and suspicious behaviour. She is definitely having an EA, she may have had a one-off PA. It's only going to get worse.

So for what it's worth this is what I would do if I had my time again.

I would tell her that being in contact on a daily basis with an ex-BF is totally unacceptable in a M, regardless of her spin on it. Even if they were just chatting innocently, it's a level of intimacy that is not ok in a M.

Tell her how much it's upsetting you and tell her that if she wants to stay married then she needs to go NC now. If she says no, that's a huge red flag anyway because who would risk their marriage over in effect a long-distance pen-friend?

If you are able to contact the guy I would and I would warn him off in no uncertain terms. Has he really got what it takes to sustain a fantasy long-distance A with a H in the know and fuming? Likelihood is he's seeing the chance for some excitement and the fun of a few illicit shags to prove to himself he's still 'got it' after the esteem bashing of D.

But you have to get in there and intervene.

At this point, because you have so little hard and fast proof, I would stress how much you love your W and how the last thing you want is this to pull you apart. It's less confrontational and gives her less room to gaslight you back.

Stay strong but also be completely prepared to follow through, because if she refuses then she needs to understand that this 'fantasy' has consequences and is not a victimless crime, which many WS believe it to be while they are in the FOG.

I wish I'd had this advice. My WS gaslighted me throughout a long-distance EA with a distant ex-BF recently divorced(!) that turned PA before fizzling out once he'd got the thrills he wanted and she started to see him for what he really was. I found out 18 months after the EA had ebbed away.

But if I hadn't been so naive I could have stepped in and blown it up on several occasions.

Be proactive, emotional, honest - try to keep the anger in check. Show her what she risks throwing away. And good luck!

You need to be a leader in your marriage.

Right now you wife is doing what ever she wants.

No contact with her long time boyfriend. If she is not wiling to give him up,then you know where you stand.

Her family is supporting her and wishing boyfriend tovisit them. FOR REAL !!!

They have no respect for you my friend.

The weight lose is a red flag. My ex wife lost weight and began cheating. She loved all the attention she was getting.

All the red flags are there, I'm sorry this is happening. You can't control her so don't try, and don't do the pick me dance, that will push her away.

The only thing I see work with waywards is decisive action by the betrayed.

So she found the VAR, that looks bad on you and gives her more ammo to bash your character with to her friends in family. "I'm living under surveillance, he bugged my car".

You have to be more sneaky, you can't get caught planting recording devices in her car.

IMO maybe you should just let her go. Tell her she has to be 100% transparent in the marriage or it is over. Find a lawyer that will take payments, but you need to lay down your terms and if she doesn't agree you need to file. That is your only hope of snapping her out of the fog.

If she wants a secret life on her phone, then she needs to be single. She wants to shut you out of her life then she needs to be single.

Tell her:

I believe you are having an emotional affair. I believe you plan to make it physical during your trip. If I am right, I prefer you to let me know now so we can initiate amicable divorce proceedings. I love you but I will not accept being in an unfaithful marriage. If I am wrong, then I ask that you give me some reassurance.

If he's just friends then add her snapchat account to your phone. She should have nothing to hide.

The look on her face when you ask this will be your answer.

Isittrue,

Are you accessing this forum from the home computer? Is there a way your tech savvy wife is checking this forum? Just wondering how on earth she was able to figure out the Var so quickly unless she saw you doing it? Do you have kids, hide it under the car seat. I'd do it again a couple of days, put another Var in the car. You don't think it's weird she didn't bring up the Var in the car situation with you? That shows guilt and avoidance, she doesn't want to address it. Any normal wife would be questioning you about the Var.

The weight loss, financial problems, daily conversations with the old boyfriend, locked phone, sexy clothing, birth control pills, and a friend funded trip near old boyfriend.

Yup you are in a world of mess with your marriage.

I'm sorry this is happening. Her friends and family are not supporting the marriage, they are helping her flee the marriage. She has painted you as the problem, they are helping her "find happiness".

IMO you should tell her the trip is off. It is not right to allow a friend to fund your trip. I don't feel comfortable because of all this red flags and be honest go down the list.

Tell her she needs to be completely transparent and refocus on strengthening the marriage and solving the financial crisis. She is running from her problems and the friends are helping her.

You are in a big mess, I hope it works out. Trying to nice her will not work short term, maybe long term, but you will be rejected over and over again until she either leaves or sees the light and wants to stay. The pick me dance will not work. It seems she is going on this trip come hell or high water. She is going to do what she wants.

Again I would go over the red flags, tell her to be transparent, cancel the trip and refocus on the your family and marriage. IF she wants to continue living a secret life she should not return from the trip. You will find a way to manage 4 kids as a single parent.

How did your WW find the VAR? Did she say something about it? You need to think very carefully about every move you make. Did she find the box it was in or the receipt? Get another one. Hide the box it came in ... Open the box and throw the box away far from home. Velcro the VAR under the seat or find another spot in the car for it. People don't check under the seat of their car before they drive. They just don't unless they know you are taping them.

Is she home during the day? Consider putting the VAR in a room she is frequently in -- home office maybe.

I have an idea, what if you took off the day before her trip? Could she still go on this trip if you were not there to hold the fort down, to take care of the kids? What would she do if she didn't have you there to take care of the kids? Would she packed them up and have a friend watch them or a family member?

She needs a big dose of reality, she is living in fantasy land, she is trying to escape her reality.

IIT,

First thing to do is send you strength and my best wishes as you do your best to make sense of your situation.

What did your wife say about finding the VAR? For most people, that would trigger at least a conversation, whether mild (“I found this gadget in the car. Is it yours?”) to angry (“How dare you put this in my car!”) If she found the VAR and said absolutely nothing, perhaps thinking she would make it awkward for you and make you mention its disappearance, she’s playing some childish games with you instead of addressing your concerns. If everything really is innocent, most people would be bending over backwards to reassure a stressed partner that all is well, and that their fears are unfounded.

In your case, there are a number of red flags, and your wife’s dismissive attitude is doing little to dispel your unease, so what can she expect from you? I think she is being very short-sighted, because playing games is not improving anything at home for either of you. If things get bad between you, does she think she will sail through it all with a smile on her face? Maybe she just has tunnel vision, and only sees what she wants to see.

It is good that you have discussed boundaries with her, even if she is still standing by her ‘only friends’ story. The thing that bothers me is that if it is true, and they really are just friends, and the red flags are just circumstantial, then why is she being so evasive and dismissive? It’s almost like she wants you to be unsettled and uncomfortable, which is a strange approach to take. If she isn’t being inappropriate, you would expect her to be entirely open and transparent about their communications, and if she is being inappropriate, you would think a person would cover their tracks better and also be more reassuring.

The thing with her Mom and family is that they will only know what she has told them. What should be relevant for them, however, is that the ‘friendship’, whatever its true nature, is causing stresses within the marriage. Have you discussed that aspect of the ‘friendship’ in those terms with any of them? Blood may be thicker than water, as the saying goes, but they would all have to be pretty thick not to be concerned about something that could damage the marriage and family.

The counselling is a positive move, and you have time now to start writing your thoughts and issues down so you can have them in order in time for the first session. It will be good to have a neutral person to act as a mediator, as they will be able to give both of you advice about how to ease the tension in the current situation. Your concerns are understandable, and hopefully the counsellor can explain that to your wife, and advise what she should be doing to be more transparent and less dismissive.

Another point for the session is her priorities. As another poster said, it is a bit much that she won’t cancel the trip because it would mean letting her friend down, but she is content to have you feeling stressed out and upset about it, when you are her husband and the father of her children. It’s like she is making her friend more important than you, and you should raise that in the counselling session. Some of these things are almost separate to the issue of her friendship with the OM, they are more about her having a dismissive and uncaring attitude towards you.

“I want to see a lawyer. I want to serve her with papers…”

Careful, IIT! I understand why you feel angry and frustrated about the way things are, but I think you need to slow down a bit when it comes to thoughts of filing.

1) There are red flags, and an unco-operative/dismissive attitude from your wife, but if someone was to ask you what rock solid, undeniable evidence you based your decision to divorce on, you actually have very little. I know that her attitude is lousy, and her treatment of you is poor, but are those elements enough to justify starting divorce proceedings, with all the expense, pain, and upheaval that would cause?

2) Let’s go for a worst case scenario here: let’s say that now that the ‘friend’ is divorced, your wife has become fixated on him, and they are spending every day planning a new life together. If you file for divorce, wouldn’t that simply make it easier for them to bid you farewell and ride off into the sunset together? In that situation, if you filed without any hard evidence, or confessions from your wife, she can continue saying it is all an innocent friendship, she is a victim, and you filed and broke the family up because you are a paranoid crazy. Cue the supportive ‘friend’ stepping in to help her through her grief, and hey, what do you know, suddenly they’re an item, brought together by you ending the marriage. You get to be the bad guy, she plays the innocent victim, the ‘friend’ steps in, and – if they were plotting a new life together – they get exactly what they want, with you paying for the divorce that made it all possible.

I know it is very hard to stay calm in situations like these, but honestly, IIT, you need to take a step back and keep a cool head. Yes, keep an eye on what your wife is doing. Yes, make the counselling sessions work for you, and make a list of the issues you want to discuss before you go in, so you are prepared. Yes, explain to your wife’s family your concerns about the friendship and the damage it is doing to the marriage. But divorce? No, not yet. The timing is not right, and as you say, the finances are tight. Bide your time, see how things pan out, this may not be as serious as you suspect. And if it is, then let your wife and the OM come up with the cash for a divorce between them. Let them be the bad guys and the destroyers of the marriage, on their dime. Do not let your wife manipulate you into being the one to divorce, at least not without any solid evidence of foul play on her part. And in the interim, if it is at all possible (it may not be), perhaps you can see if you can salt away some money as an emergency ‘rainy day’ fund, possibly to cover the costs of a private investigator to provide hard evidence.

I am sorry that you are feeling so stressed and unhappy about things, IIT, but this is a time to make plans with a cool head, not rush into decisions out of anger or hurt. That could just hurt you more, cost you a packet, and get you branded the bad guy. For now, hunker down, go to counselling, watch your wife as best you can, and air your misgivings to her family, so they are aware of the current tensions in the marriage. They may not listen much, but they will not be able to say they had no idea if something does go down in the future.

You are not as lost as you think you are; you are actually working through this very well indeed, and we are all behind you and keen to support you. Now is not the right time to file, it is the time to plan for the possible scenarios that may play out, and to ensure that you are as prepared as possible for any of them. Remember this: if there really is something going on between your wife and that guy, they cannot be together long-term without a divorce taking place, so why not let them initiate it and pay for it? And if things escalate between them, they are going to be a lot easier to catch, and you can expose their activities to the family. They also live a long way apart, so the opportunities for sneaking around are limited. So while you are feeling a bit lost and stuck for options, think about the limited options that are open to your wife and the OM if they really are planning something. It’s not like they have the world on a plate, and the divorce thing cuts both ways in terms of cost and consequences. You may not have stacks of cash lying around, but neither does your wife, so she really cannot afford – in any sense – to wreck the marriage and make things lousy at home. So she is no better placed than you are, she just acts like she is. Think of the marriage like a boat that you are both in. If one person puts a hole in the boat, both people end up swimming.

Stay strong, IIT, and keep a cool head. Things could go several ways at this point, so do not make any rushed decisions now that could turn out to be wrong, or badly-timed.

I think M1965 is absolutely spot on, and things are not as lost as they seem.

You are being asked to swallow a very bitter pill but as M1965 says, there is almost certainly an EA but the PA - if it has got to that stage - has been limited (because of geography).

The huge advantage you have over most of us here is that you are shining light on the reality of this impending/fledgling A early on, not during or after. This is not a pick-me situation but you do have the chance to make your case for the M right here and right now.

Does she want to be poorer, have the kids half the time, the shame, and all the other crap that goes with this?

Does this guy really want to inherit four kids and a messed up W directly after what was no doubt a messy D of his own? Of course not, he wants fun and your wife is fantasising because she's stopped doing the hard yards in the M and sees him as a way out of her own issues. Firm and assertive action from you will also make her see you mean business.

As M1965 says, it's time for a cool head and for planning your actions/reactions as the scenarios unfold. If she's hell-bent on following through then that's on her and lawyers and D will follow anyway.

Stick in there, stay strong and good luck.

Friend,

Have you gotten the book Not Just Friends yet?

Have you asked your wife to read that book?

I think the key issue is that she doesn’t see her actions as infidelity. She doesn’t understand the concept of emotional infidelity.

Go back to my post. Have that conversation with her.